Why do I hurt myself when others hurt me?

[live love laugh]

I have been off work for three days because I stood up to a boss who has been, in my opinion, verbally abusive and totally unsupportive. I called her for a meeting about one thing on Wednesday morning and that meeting turned into her dumping a lot of negative, subjective information about me on me. She says that I am vindictive and stubborn. She says I interrupt and am rude. I won't go into all of the details here but this is not true and, if anything, this woman has projection issues.

Two weeks ago, a delivery was late and I was told that she had been notified by a supervisor who reports to me and when she called to ask why I didn't notify anybody I explained that. She slammed the phone down hard and cold out of the blue. On another day, employees who didn't want to do an assignment went over my head to her and she runs into my office and tells me I am wrong, they should not have to do what I asked even though what I told them are the rules. She constantly overturns, criticizes and questions my decisions. She called to tell me one day that she was very very very disappointed because I didn't come in to work earlier to train with someone when I am already working days that begin at 8AM and end with me walking in the door as late as 10PM.

My performance has not been the best for a number of valid reasons and I acknowledged that to her. I said that I felt attacked and that while I don't mind constructive criticism, I can't do anything with information like her opinion that I am vindictive or stubborn.

I told her that she can't keep attacking me and dumping on me with this kind of information and I want her to get off my back. She said you go home and come back when I notify you. I have no idea what I might be "charged" with when I return to work, I don't have any other bad issues on my record and this rough patch with performance is due to a staffing shortage but I know that the charges will be trumped up if I am being kept off three days with pay.

I actually was happy to come home I am exhausted.

But on the way home I stopped and bought a pack of cigarettes--I quit successfully over a year ago. I called a lawyer and am considering selling my house and quitting even drawing down my retirement pay to get out of this bad situation but this is a move that would hurt me financially in the long run. I know that I did the best that I could under the circumstances. But in the meantime, I can't sleep--I woke up early and tired--I'm jumpy, I am overeating and not taking care of myself where at least I was doing that with my extremely long work hours. I am afraid but determined to stand up for myself and not to be abused. I grew up in an alcoholic household and have been to counseling and ACOA long ago to deal with those issues, but somehow I continue to be treated as if I am wearing a sign on my forehead that says kick me and I don't know why.

I could use some encouragement.

[DemExpat]

1. Hugs from me for some encouragement for you.....

I can only imagine how stressful this situation must be for you, when options are not plentiful.

And I do understand that impulse to be aggressive on yourself when rejected or abused by others. With me it had to do with guilt/shame from childhood of thinking it was my fault that I was treated that way.
But it is an impulse in the present that I hope you can get over a.s.a.p.!
Throw those damned cigarettes away - they don't help anyway, and will give you another hurdle to get over when this crisis has passed, which it WILL...

Self-esteem issues make some of us so hard on ourselves at times, and when we learn more to accept ourselves and to stand up to those who hurt us, (which you seem to be doing now) this gets much better - in my experience.

Much support for you, dear,

:hug:

DemEx

[EFerrari]

5. This whole self esteem issue is a toughie.

Because it can manifest in so many ways. And maybe, because self esteem doesn't happen in a vacuum?

What I find odd is that so many events get assigned to self esteem when they could also be assigned to a relationship -- i.e., a two headed experience.

I guess I'm just speaking from my own experience where everything plus the kitchen sink was put in my skinny lap. And, I BELIEVED IT!

LOL

Well, just for now, it's sort of comforting to know that I'm not all that important and that most of the time, these events that happen between people are shared and so should all that responsibility be shared.

lol

(Laughing at me for all the times I got stressed out and tried to control what wasn't within my control. Human beans are very cute sometimes. :rofl: )

:hug:

:grouphug:

[DemExpat]

10. You are right about self-esteem not being in a vacuum.....

Because it can manifest in so many ways. And maybe, because self esteem doesn't happen in a vacuum?
What I find odd is that so many events get assigned to self esteem when they could also be assigned to a relationship -- i.e., a two headed experience.

I think that they DO go hand in hand, Beth, but that we keep replaying and attracting these experiences until we discover enough about ourselves to stop the process.

Can you explain more what you mean about finding this odd?

I guess I'm just speaking from my own experience where everything plus the kitchen sink was put in my skinny lap. And, I BELIEVED IT!

Yep, we are so empathetic that we can see other sides and feel compassionate enough to want to help, while not realizing that our own issues are being tested in the process.

I am coming to the conclusion in this life that one can be compassionate and empathetic without putting ourselves too much out there in a position to try to manage and fix it all, because in my experience, most people NEED to work it out on their own - with support in the background if THEY request it - but ultimately on their own.

Since I have also come to strongly sense that we are here to learn (in a kind of human evolution/spiritual sense) - these lessons are personal tasks we all have to deal with and learn from. We all come into this world alone, and we die alone - is my perception now - and this doesn't cause me a huge panic attack now as it did in my younger years. :silly:

Well, just for now, it's sort of comforting to know that I'm not all that important and that most of the time, these events that happen between people are shared and so should all that responsibility be shared.


Yes, but our responsibility is mostly for our selves and our roles in our relationships, don't you think?

(Laughing at me for all the times I got stressed out and tried to control what wasn't within my control.

Again, in my view all that we can learn to "control" is our reaction to others and life's events, we really have no say over others' lives and their choices.


This all might sound extremely selfish, self-centered....but I'm discovering that the more I work thorugh my issues the "cleaner" my relationships are and they become backgrounds for more mutual respect and shared simple pleasures and perhaps 'true' love. :crazy:

:hug:

DemEx

[EFerrari]

11. I'm not sure what I mean but maybe it goes a little like this

In our culture, we are encouraged to be individuals. We feel empowered when we own our own things and take charge of them.

But, as powerful as that act is, there is an equal and opposite -- or balancing?-- part of us that is created in the reflection of others. In the space between oneself and another. And in how we interact with that reflection or regard.

This is also who we are and how we are. And we have no control at all over how others regard or reflect us. That reflection can be generous and loving but it also can be frightened and hostile. And the thing is, we are constituted by that reflection as much as we are by our own self directed processes because we are social creatures.

So, no, what you're saying doesn't sound "selfish" at all to me because, that is where imho, we can make a direct difference, by working on our own things.

But there is that whole other sphere, too, where we are in relation and that means, we are being at every moment "made" by that act of relationship, which is complicated, enfolded and not subject to our own control or wishes. And this relational sphere seems to me to be avoided or overlooked quite often. It gets trashed or pathologized or minimized because people don't think about it very clearly very often. We don't seem to really know how to think about it, and that could be, because it has its own dynamics that aren't at all like those in the other sphere of "between me and me".

And that relational sphere isn't something we can quite choose to engage in once we have the other one the way we want it to be. Not really. We are always subject to (or, objects in) that relational sphere. We can chose, for example, not to embark on committed relationships while we are mending something and for a period of time but, we can't choose to absent ourselves from relationship entirely because it is as much a part of us as our mindful awareness.

lol

I sound like Warner Erhardt pitching an EST seminar. Going to go find some granola now.

:rofl:

[DemExpat]

13. Yes, it does get complicated, I agree.

This is also who we are and how we are. And we have no control at all over how others regard or reflect us. That reflection can be generous and loving but it also can be frightened and hostile. And the thing is, we are constituted by that reflection as much as we are by our own self directed processes because we are social creatures.

.....we are constituted by that reflection as much as we are by our own self directed processes because we are social creatures.......the clue here, imo, is learning to understand that this reflection from others in the relational sphere says most about THEM and not us, so learning to see this keeps our own responses cleaner and clearer for us personally. We choose OUR acceptance of ourselves over negativity from others. This doesn't mean ignoring others' perceptions of us - for we can learn and take cues from these - but not to take their perception as a stamped label of what we are.

This is a long haul, of course, after a troubled childhood.

I am at the point in my life now that when I do have those days/periods where it seems like the world is down on me (disapproving faces, even over the Internet (!)) I don't go into a negative spiral but look at myself and what "vibes", body language, facial expression, etc. I might be sending out there. Or what negative thoughts or expectations I may be having about myself in relation to others.
And I make a mental note that people have their own personal reasons for being less than nice and friendly.

So even as we are definitely social creatures, it all starts and ends with us. I know that with my limitations, this awareness and acceptance of myself as "captain of my soul", as I am, has helped me find more happiness and balance in my life and relationships.


DemEx

[EFerrari]

15. I'll have to think about this.

:)

That space "between" has always interested me because that is where so much happens -- art, love, even light!

But now, I'm off to take some pictures of a statice plant that has been fascinating me for months. :hi:

[live love laugh]

6. Dem thank you for the encouragement. I have weathered enough

crises to know that this will pass, but I still go on autopilot with the self abuse. And you are absolutely correct about the cigarettes being another problem afterwards. I will try harder to just be in my pain and perhaps learn and grow this time.

[DemExpat]

9. I look at my self-negativity patterns thru Borderline PD eyes.....

even though I resist labeling partly because of all of the overlap in symptoms, but this package of mental health problems does generally describe mine the best....

My husband pointed out this interview with me the other night, which I found to be a balanced and relatively positive discussion on the subject.
http://feeds.wnyc.org/~r/wnyc_lopate/~3/86630265/05

And I have one book that gives great advice on dealing with this "autopilot" problem, but unfortunately it is in Dutch...:-)...I look into this book whenever I find myself slipping into this terrible, overwhelming state.

More hugs to you this morning,

:hug:

DemEx

[live love laugh]

12. I got a lot out of that link. Thanks.

Like you, I avoid labels and BPD like many other mental illnesses does not really have a "cure" per se so labeling is pretty futile IMHO. I've done the therapy and it seemed like I was wasting so much of my life talking about me instead of moving forward that I got tired of it. At some point, I think I must live with whatever I am/have. The most important thing is to fully believe that I can be OK as I am BPD (or not) so that I can pursue a living and be happy without being a fearful doormat.

[DemExpat]

14. That discussion on the link presents a realistic image of borderline

I've done the therapy and it seemed like I was wasting so much of my life talking about me instead of moving forward that I got tired of it.
I pulled myself from years of therapy too, but very much value the insights that I gained from it.

At some point, I think I must live with whatever I am/have. The most important thing is to fully believe that I can be OK as I am BPD (or not) so that I can pursue a living and be happy without being a fearful doormat.

We are living with ourselves as we are anyway, so best to make peace with this fact and nurture ourselves more instead of hoping the world will accept, love, nurture us....to not hurt us!

When we stop hoping to be loved and accepted (or trying to control a relationship to ensure that we will be loved) while at the same time dreading/expecting to be rejected and dumped on, it all slowly clears up and stops "happening"......and creates space for healthier relationships with clearer boundaries, limits, and responsiblities.....in my experience.

:hug: :grouphug:

DemEx

[EFerrari]

2. Us ACOA kids don't have a visible sign but we tend to have a lot of empathy

and to try to cut other people a break.

That's our weakness but also our huge strength. Because you can never go wrong by gathering information and if you think about it, that's what we do. Because we do empathize, we are always gathering information. We are information clearinghouses. :hug:

What that person is doing is not okay. It's obviously abusive and it sounds as though it's not easy at all to deal with and you are doing a great job of handling it.

It's fine to keep all of your options open, to think about them and to remember that you have them. Good for you for reminding yourself that you have real choices, that you are in charge of your life.

What has worked for you in the way of calming and soothing? While you're dealing with this situation, I'd sure get those tools out.

You can handle this. You already are and very clearly, too.

:hug:

[live love laugh]

3. Thank you for your empathy and understanding

You are exactly right, I do tend to be overly empathethic and I try to give others a break which is often mistaken for weakness.

In crises, I don't cope well but I believe that I can do better. I am trying to do one thing a day toward making a move out of this situation like cleaning up my house which is a mess after working so many crazy hours. Getting a real estate agent to come in an appraise my house and tell me what my best options are for increasing sale value and then starting those projects.

[EFerrari]

4. You sound a lot like me! I feel overwhelmed sometimes

and that is very real for me even if no one else knows it. And putting one foot, then the next foot, just taking one step works for me, anyway.

You know, that whole empathy thing isn't a burden. It's a blessing because when you empathize, you learn. You learn about other people, you learn about you. Yes, others sometimes mistake it for weakness. But, that's their problem.

Us ACOA kids by necessity develop feelers and they can really help us out in life by giving us inside info for us to know and evaluate in most situations. It's the bonus we didn't expect to get. :-)

Keep us posted, LLL. This forum is the secret warm heart of DU.

:evilgrin:

[undergroundpanther]

7. That is a good question

I have been hurt emotionally and what did I do? I cut.
Why? I think I'll that that question to therapy.If I learn something useful I'll share it here.
Anyways it's not the ONLY reason I cut but sometimes it is done as a response to overwhelming emotional pain, and if the source of that pain is some asshole who gets under my fur...Why I have that response to them, instead of something else that would NOT hurt me..I got to ponder that.

[EFerrari]

8. . . . .

:hug:

[live love laugh]

16. So I met with my boss today

I have been off work for a week with pay.

Me: What's the purpose of the meeting?
She: You don't think you're going to stay off forever do you? I have the right to ask an employee into my office for a discussion.
Me: What is the purpose of the meeting?
She: Tell me what happened last Wednesday (the day she sent me home).
Me: Because I was sent home for a week, and because I'm not sure what I said that was so wrong that I would be sent home for a week,
I would rather not say much.
She: You told me three times that you will not tolerate me criticizing you. (Lie.)

What I said was you can't keep attacking me. That I can take criticism when it's constructive but that there is nothing constructive about calling me vindictive, etc.

Me: What else did I say?
She: What can I do to help you be successful.
Me: I don't know.
She: Right now you're flat out refusing to cooperate. I'm going to send you to work some other managers who know how to treat their
supervisors. I'm going to conference them in now to make arrangements.

She brings them on the line and says that I'm due to start training with them tomorrow and then tells them to ask me what I need in terms of training since she can't get anything out of me.

:eyes:

Me: In tears. I cannot believe that you are dragging my name through the mud and telling others things like I am vindictive. (I
start crying.)
She: Smiles.
Me: This is funny?
She: No. (I don't remember the rest of her comment but she continued to smile.)

I start writing at this point to maintain my composure.

She: I'm sure that whatever you are writing is untrue. I realize that you are short staffed that is not the issue. I want to send
you for training in other area so you understand how to get work done. You cannot delegate everything, I want you to work with
managers to understand how to support your staff and get work done.

But work is not the issue right?

She ended the meeting which became increasingly hostile by telling me "I'm prepared for you." When I asked what that meant she said it again "I'm prepared for you." So I go somewhere to "train" for two weeks for something totally unrelated to the incident in question and then back to hell with her gunning for me. In the meantime, my job is just a vehicle to move on--hopefully quickly.

The handwriting is on the wall. I have never been in such a position and the prospect of having to do everything to sell my home, and find another job--especially when I don't have a good reference is a daunting one. I just thought of one person who I can call from work to get some feedback. She's the same level as my boss and may even agree to be a reference for me. Wish me luck.

[EFerrari]

17. You know, I wouldn't meet with her without a fair witness.

Document everything and imho, insist on a witness.

:hug: to you and of course, sending every good wish your way. :hug: