Can we have a "Why I'm Great" Thread?

[Larissa238]

I know that a lot of us are struggling with depression and other disorders. Sometimes it helps me to see how far I have come, and to see the accomplishments of others who are going through the same thing. I think a thread where we just pat ourselves on the back is a good idea, that way when we are really down we can come back to it and see the good we have done.

Anyone would be able to post anything. For example, about 4 years ago a huge thing for me was getting out of bed. This was in the deepest depression. Getting out of bed when you fight anxiety going out your bedroom door and fighting depression is huge deal sometimes.

Now, I have been able to keep a job for a year next month, and now I am struggling with having hope for a future. I'm dying with debt from college loans and trying to keep my credit card from going out of control. I just don't see how I can have a good future with this. But when I look back on how far I have come, it helps (sometimes, this is not a panacea).

So, I've shared a bit about myself. What have you done that you are proud of, be it today or overall?

[EFerrari]

1. What a good idea and, lol, what a challenge!

I've been struggling not to isolate lately. Yesterday, my mom put my three nieces (13-->6) on the phone and I talked to each of them about what they were up to this summer. They're adorable and it took the last bit of energy I had to pull off the conversations. It was great to hear their voices and to find out what they were doing. :)

[Larissa238]

2. I'm pretty islolated in real life

Online I have a bunch of people I talk to, but an IM seems easier to me. I moved here to Florida about a year ago, and since then, I have not really gone out of my way to make friends. An online friend had a good idea, but I'm kinda scared to do it. It's the "Free Hugs" thing. If you haven't seen the video, here it is: http://youtube.com/watch?v=vr3x_RRJdd4

I just don't know if I can do that. I don't have a problem going up to people normally( I used to go to an evangelical fundie church, and we would go up to strangers and invite them to church all the time ) but I'm still in a down phase. My friend is too, but he is trying to use it to get him out of the depression.

Anyways, yeah, I isolate myself too. But if you want to chat, I'm online all day. You can PM me for my info if you like. :)

:hug: :grouphug: :hug:

[bling bling]

3. Interesting question.

I like a good challenge. On the other hand, this past year has been the kind of challenge I could live the rest of my whole life without experiencing again. Between having a baby and depo-provera and Wellbutrin I have been unable to figure out why the hell I've been so angry and unable to regulate my emotions. The thing I feared the most (depression) crept up again and I'm battling it right now. I should have known, it's been brewing for months now.

But the anger thing is what bothers me the most. I can't verbalize it very well. I don't get violent but I just feel like I can't stop myself from letting little irritating moments escalate into anger that takes over and consumes me then it takes me forever to calm down again. I'm afraid of destroying relationships over it.

So as you can imagine there's not much I feel proud of. Getting angry so easily makes me feel anything but proud.

But I recently learned a pretty effective method for diffusing my anger when it starts to surface. I guess you could say I'm proud of that. More like relieved, though. And it only applies to the irrational stuff I get angry about. Sometimes there are legitimate reasons to be angry but that's not what I'm talking about here.

I realized that my anger isn't something "bad." It's not something that happens "to me." It's something my brain and body are producing to try and protect me from a perceived threat. But, obviously my perceptions are inaccurate right now. So, for example, when I walk into the kitchen and see that my daughter has emptied the contents of the tupperware cabinets all over the floor while I was cleaning a mess she just made in another room, I try to be aware of the irritability as soon as it surfaces before it develops into a full blown rage. Then I thank my anger and recognize that it's only trying to protect me (as bizarre as that may sound). Then I observe the situation more objectively and explain it to myself. Such as "I don't need to react with anger because my daughter is not a threat, she's just exploring like all kids do. This situation is also not a threat. I just need to clean this up and it's not a big deal."

That's probably a dumb example. I've got thousands to choose from but the process is basically the same for all of them: 1. thank my anger, 2. explain to myself (to my anger) that it's not a necessary reaction right now because the situation (or person) isn't a threat to me, and 3. re-analyze the situation more consciously and factually (and thus more rationally).

It's amazing how things that probably just come naturally for most people have to be such a conscious effort for people who are disordered. But regardless, that was an extremely distressing problem that I've found a solution for.

[DemExpat]

5. It is wonderful that you are trying to be aware of your anger and its

effect on relationships, bling bling.

I realized that my anger isn't something "bad." It's not something that happens "to me." It's something my brain and body are producing to try and protect me from a perceived threat.

Anger has been a big part of my state of mind too after I realized in therapy that I even HAD anger eating me up inside...

This is a good stance to take with anger IMO, and with your little daughter I can recommend being more pro-active with anticipating her need to explore by 'engineering' her activities yourself a bit more so that it doesn't overcome you when you are not expecting it, know what I mean? This is how I worked around these irrational feelings and states of mind when my kids were little, by letting my kids do what they needed to do within my boundaries of time and place. Does this make sense to you? Total chaos and messes around me are something I could not take then, or now, but kids need to mess around! :D
I wore them out every day in the park playground or at the beach so that they were tired too... :evilgrin:

DemEx

[bling bling]

10. I understand exactly.

In fact, I should have added in my post that after I calm myself down and figure out the situation rationally, I've also been telling myself what I could do differently next time.

Thank you so much for mentioning that. You're absolutely right and I had realized it too that one of the areas I need to work on is being more pro-active about what activities she engages in. I think more structure and routine would help with that too and it's something I'm working on, but as with most things with me, it doesn't come naturally and requires a ridiculous amount of work and effort. But I've got determination, and a deep desire to be a good role model and good mother.

[Larissa238]

6. That's a great example

There are millions of people in this country who are working with anger issues. You have found a way to deal with your anger. I have never thought of thanking my anger. I have always thought that my anger (and my Significant Other's anger as well) was something bad and to be feared. I guess it comes with the past I have. But to think of anger as something that is there to protect you is one of those things that you have seen all your life, and then one day it clicks (as it clicked when I read your post). I studied biology in college, I know about the fight or flight response. You have made a connection that makes perfect sense... just never clicked to me.

Thanks for sharing! I think I'm going to try this one out, and maybe share it with the SO as well :)

:hug:

[bling bling]

11. That made me feel so good to hear you say that.

One of the things that I constantly feel is that I don't communicate effectively and that people don't really get the meaning of what I'm saying because I have a hard time expressing my thoughts into words effectively. I know what I'm thinking but I don't know how to say it. I end up re-explaining myself a lot or feeling like what I said didn't translate the way I meant it to.

It's honestly a relief to me when someone seems to genuinely understand and connect with the point of something I've said. It happens so rarely. Thank you for saying so.

[DemExpat]

4. OK, I'll take this opportunity

to counteract the more usual self-effacing state of mind that I live with every day. Those of you struggling moment by moment may not have the stomach for hearing this boastful story, but I want to brag about my survival. And believe me, I know how getting out of bed and facing another day can be just as great a cause for celebration.

I am great, really great, for beating my deep and chronic depression/panic disorder/borderline in the 70s and early 80s and overcoming suicidal urges that lasted for several years. I had help with this, first from a rather holistic-leaning psychiatrist who helped me gain insight into why I felt as I did, and who lead me to look to other avenues for support alongside her medical approach, via astrology and complementary medicine aids, and then from my 2 dear children who, for me, were an excellent (but extremely difficult to keep on track) focus on needs outside my own that HAD to be tended to. It helped that my kids were so precious and loving that it was unquestionable for me that I would do all in power to nurture them alongside myself......
I had been addicted and messed up by medications prescribed to me by this psychiatrist, and when I got pregnant I kicked this addiction along with cigarettes and alcohol. Yes, I pat myself on the back for this too, for I feel I needed to be able to build up my sanity on my own without meds and other drugs that made me feel "not myself" and not in the driver's seat. (Some people may have this need to do it without medication stronger than others, I believe, and I do know that meds are for many people the very best solution, so I do not advocate my way for everybody).

Made it through the years and slowly gained some sanity while helping my kids lead a happy and healthy life, and as far as I can see, my 2 young adult kids are on MUCH better footing than I (or my hubby) ever were, so we are happy and grateful for them, and feel good ourselves for pulling this thing of raising kids off! (You should have heard what "everybody" said when they learned I was pregnant.......disastrous!)

I am now reaching the end of a 6 year study to earn my belated University degree that I felt so bad not having finished in my nightmare years, and this has been as much of a mental/psychological challenge for me with hauntings from my "devils" from the past as a stimulating intellectual challenge and accomplishment. I still am somewhat afraid that my psyche is going to pull a big one on me and do something to sabotage my reaching this long-desired goal - I've had to struggle through several periods of being totally unable to focus and apply myself (had to withdraw and take a break in the middle), but October 10th is my finishing date, so I just HAVE to hang in there and finish this task.

So, despite my "lost" years from severe mental problems, I live now with my oversensitivities, my present 'tendencies' for negativity and depression, my 'tendencies' for anxiety permeating my life and actions, and my borderline 'tendencies' and thought processes. I have raised my 2 darlings to my - and their - satisfaction, have almost earned my degree, and I do feel great for having come so far from my darkest times.

I am in actuality most humble and humbled by my history, I live with my history every moment of every day and have not lost touch with or feel "cured" from my sufferings, but in this post I can say, yeah, I am great for having accomplished this and for not giving up, and feel great that I have against all odds and (self-)expectations, been able to create some positivity for this world!

And thanks, Larissa, for this opportunity for me to be so boasting! Never have I done this exercise in such a way before. :D

This, for me, orgy of self-praise is embarrassing, it is very hard for me to click the "post" button (!), but, what the hell, HERE it IS! And you are right, I can look at this post and others here whenever these accomplishments are clouded - and feel totally non-existent - by the low times.

Love to you all here,

DemEx

[Larissa238]

7. Good luck with your degree!

It is possible. I struggled through college, paying what I could and taking loans when I couldn't. It took 5 and a half years for me, along with one disastrous semester off to get through. Even if you do have a slight breakdown, you would be surprised how most teachers will go out of your way to help you. There were many times when I thought I couldn't take it anymore, and would have to go inpatient. I would take my books, to the annoyance of the nurses sometimes who just wanted me to rest. I would go to groups, and at night I would sit and try and study. When I got out, if I missed an exam or homework would give me time to make it up. Sometimes they dropped the exam and did the average of the other, sometimes I took them late. It's hard. :hug: Don't feel bad for putting it off. You know what you can handle, and who knows if Uni would have pushed you over? They were your nightmare years, as you said. It was probably a good idea to wait.

And kudos to you, for even getting through those nightmare years. That in itself is a huge accomplishment, to have made it through the darkest times and come out, not only alive, but well.

:grouphug:

[DemExpat]

8. Thanks, Larissa, congrats on your hard-earned degree.

Yes, my professors (and counselors) have generally been more than great in supporting and accommodating me, and I have also had to take an average for an exam or two, have extensions, etc.
And I do know that at the time it was impossible for me to apply myself to a study, for that I have no regret, but I did want to make up for that loss of following my interests. Earning my degree was a regret I felt I now could 'erase'.

:hug:

DemEx

[Larissa238]

12. Thanks.

It was 4 years of hell, for the most part.

I did okay my freshman and sophomore years, but in my sophomore year, I decided to stress myself out. I was an arrogant pre-med coming off a good year, and I thought "hey, med school is going to be hard, why don't I take on as much as I can and see if I can handle med school?" I knew that I was bipolar, but I didn't grasp what that meant at the time. I knew it meant mood swings, but I didn't know much else.

So, my sophomore year, I took some really hard bio classes as well as Organic Chemistry (arguably one of the hardest classes on campus) and some other upper level classes. I was involved in church 4-5 days/nights a week. I had another bipolar friend who was having a hard time call me when she needed help, since I was the only one who could even relate. I was the president of a club (which met the 2 nights I was not in church).

I made it through the fall semester, and about March I crashed, and I crashed hard. I took a semester off, and that was my nightmare time. I stumbled through the rest of uni, but I finally got my degree.

And I got a first hand lesson on why to not over-stress yourself.

[EFerrari]

9. Sing it, DemEx! LOL!

:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

:loveya:

[DemExpat]

15. Love your response here, Beth.

:loveya: :hug: :D:D:D

DemEx

[bling bling]

13. Very well said.

The thing that struck me in your post was the comment about being able to create some positivity for this world. I want that for myself too, and think that's the ultimate goal for me.

I've been wondering lately if there's some meaning that can be extracted from my experiences. If I can draw from the pain and suffering and do something positive, then I will feel like it was all worthwhile afterall. I don't know if I should call that a goal or just a hope. Maybe it's both.

[DemExpat]

14. Meaning from these experiences?

I will simply call it "triumph of the spirit" - for the religious, for the atheist, agnostic, and for the spiritual ones among us here!

DemEx

[DemExpat]

16. Oh, yes, and about doing something positive....

I found that the greatest benefits were gained by the tiniest steps taken, so no need to think big and grand, just do the little positive things each day and they add up tremendously and have huge payoffs later.

I'm talking here like an old lady....why, yes, I have reached middle age and am heading towards the wisdom years....:rofl:

DemEx

[EFerrari]

18. The Wisdom Years? Wasn't that an 80s sitcom?

lol

[DemExpat]

21. LOL, Beth, that brings to mind either the 3 or "mature" ladies in

"The Golden Girls", or something like that, or a youth show with the young boy who grows up to be a writer,"the .....Years".... can't think of the name of that one, must be my fading mind here....:rofl:

DemEx

[Larissa238]

17. Being in this group is a positive thing

Talking with others who have gone through a similar situation is a very good thing. It's good for the people who are reading, because then they feel that they are not alone, and it's good for you to express your feelings as well.

And talking about how you got to where you are now, the good that came from the bad is a healing thing, at least to me.

[Random_Australian]

19. That story makes me smile. I may not post here often, but I read everything.

It is good to find these stories.

I have one of my own, but I fear it's not for the telling today. I get to be normal if I control my memory, and one of the things I can't allow myself to remember is my story. Sorry.

Now, to push the post button...

[EFerrari]

20. Hi there, Random_Australian. Good to read you.

:hi:

[Random_Australian]

30. Nice to read you too!

[DemExpat]

22. Hi, RA.

I'd like to hear your story when you are able to tell it!

:hi:

DemEx

[Random_Australian]

31. Well, here is a part I wrote once.....

http://www.peacetakescourage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4145&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

I think the story is on about page 5, but I posted the front page so you would know the question that I was answering. :)

[TZ]

32. Thank you for sharing that story...

Its quite amazing and inspirational really. :) You have overcome much!:thumbsup:

[DemExpat]

33. Thanks, R.A. I appreciate you sharing this....

and celebrate your survival!

:hug:

DemEx

[no name no slogan]

27. WOW

words escape me

:applause: :toast:

[Larissa238]

23. My turn!

As a background, I have Bipolar 1 with psychotic features, and I have borderline personality disorder. This means I get crazy mood swings, occasional hallucinations, and can be very unstable in relationships. So how I managed to get to where I am is anyone's guess.

When I was growing up, I was subject to certain abuses which I don't want to recall. It scarred me against men for a long time, and I still have some issues with them now. Luckily I have an amazingly patient fiance / hubby that understands. I was also instilled with a "I have to do this" mindset. When I was a child, I knew that I had to do good in school, get into a good university, and graduate. It wasn't too hard for me until I got to college. I posted above about how I had my breakdown, and struggled through till graduation, just because it was something I had to do. I had no other option. Even when I was in my darkest times when I was thinking about suicide, dropping out never came to mind. I had to finish college.

I did take one semester off, though. That, I think, was one of the worst mistakes that I ever made. My sister let me live with her, so all I had to do was keep my one day a week job for spending money. It got to the point where it was hard for me to leave my room, in a combination of depression and anxiety. I remember the first time I went outside in like a month, I had a friend on the phone, walking me through every step. I managed to get to the store a couple blocks away and back. Somehow I managed to go back to school at the end of that semester.

I then went through a crazy relationship with this really unstable girl, and it was a huge burden on me, but I loved her and didn't want to let her go. Eventually, I got sick of the manipulation and her wandering (not sex, but having feelings for other people) ways, and I got rid of her. I don't know how I had the power to do that, but I did. Which was a good thing, because I met Geo (geomon666 here) about 6 months later. We started talking, and I was really reluctant at first, because of my bad experiences with men, but he was patient and waited for me to come around. We have been together 2 years now, and it's the most stable relationship I have been in. He knows my issues, and helps me with them, and I try and help him with his.

It took a year of struggling to get my degree. I failed a class my senior year, and had to re-take it here in Miami. Then I had to fight with financial aid, the records department, and the biology department, but I got it.

So, despite all my issues, I have a Bachelors in Biology from the University of Southern California (the #27 school in the country last time I checked), I have managed to hold down a steady job for a year now, and I am in a positive relationship for once. I want to find another job eventually, something where I can help people. I don't really know what area at the moment, but time will tell, I guess.

So that's me.

*edited to put in my school name*

[DemExpat]

24. What a trooper, Larissa!

and your tenacity has you now at a place in your life WITH your mental health problems but without losing decades of your life by withdrawing or dropping out (not just out of school!)

I have tons of respect for this.

Thanks for sharing, it is wonderful how you have managed!

:hug:

DemEx

[Larissa238]

25. Thanks

:)

I honestly don't know what got me through. It could have been God, it could have just been conditioning, I guess. I don't want to say brainwashing, but in my mind I didn't have a choice but to do these things.

I do fear that I will lose my job because sometimes it's really hard, and I'm sitting there hallucinating and stuff, and all that work will be in vain. But that's just the depression talking, and it's something that I have to fight.

[no name no slogan]

26. wow, this really IS a challenge

Here goes:

I got through high school and a competitive college with a 3.0+ GPA while going through various undiagnosed manic and depressive episodes.

I changed careers from clerical/administrative to IT nine years ago without any external/additional training. I taught myself web development and bluffed my way into an IT job without any previous experience. In fact, I even got a job teaching web development at the community college level. My development skills got me an offer from a major Democratic presidential campaign in 2004. I now work in the public sector managing a 12,000-page web site that gets around 40,000 hits a day.

No matter how rotten the economic situation or my own mental condition, I have always managed to hold a job of some sort, and pay most of my bills on time.

I am a self-taught musician and play a bunch of instruments, and have a three-octave vocal range. I am also blessed with perfect pitch, and can play most songs after only hearing them one time. I've taught myself how to use a recording studio and have commercially released (along with my band) a CD of my original music.

But this is what I am most proud of right now:
Today, I got out of bed, went to my day program, and spent the afternoon at a local cafe, reading and writing. This evening, I came home, and worked on a new song and called a good friend and talked to my mom as well. I survived today without hurting myself or anyone else. I am still here.

[Larissa238]

36. *applause*

Wow, you taught yourself so much that you could get an IT position without any official training? That's definitely something to be proud of. Holding a job through depression is also a great thing.

And I know how hard it is some days to just get out of bed. I have been at the point where getting out of the house is impossible, and you have done that as well. I know that right now you are not doing too well (I saw your hospital post). I know it's hard in times like this, but try and think of how far you have come. How hard you have worked to get yourself to this point. There is a fighting spirit in you for sure, for you to accomplish all this. Just let that part keep fighting, and hold on to hope.

:hug:

[TZ]

28. I'm mostly physically healthy again...

and I started what seems like a really nice job. I may now, be mostly healed of the traumas of the last year. I think my depression is lifting. AND there is a great deal of thanks to go to various friends, including one who shall remain nameless here but once again I want to express my extreme gratitude for extreme support and friendship that was the key to parts of my healing.:loveya: :hug:

[Larissa238]

35. That's really encouraging!

People that care about you make all the difference in the world, and I'm sure all of them are happy to see that you are doing better. I know it makes me feel so great when someone I care about comes out of a depression. I'm sure they will be glad to see how great you are doing.

[terrya]

29. I went back to counselling.

And I started this program from the Midwest Center for the treatment of Anxiety and Depression.

I need to do something. I've been thinking quite a lot about death lately. I'm sort of scared that I've been thinking these thoughts.

[Larissa238]

34. That's a good first step

It took me years and a semi-intervention to get me into therapy. I thought I was mostly okay.

And if you are seriously thinking about death, maybe more intensive therapy would be good for you. Be very cautious about starting meds, some of them increase the risk of suicide in patients. It could be that the pills give people energy before making them less depressed, and so then people have the energy to go through with these thoughts. Just a warning, so you can talk with a psyc in case they want to put you on meds.

And if the thoughts get overpowering, GET HELP ASAP! Call 911 if you have to. If you can't afford it, a lot of cities have low cost clinics where you can go. They may not be the best place, but it's better than being dead, trust me.

:hug:

[no name no slogan]

37. somebody needs to kick this thread

so I'll do it

[mopinko]

38. i don't hate my daughter

even though she has projected every bit of her delusions on to me. she believes that i beat her daily. she once told a teacher, who told dcfs that her brother beat her every day. he is a sweet, gently kid, and the wounds were self inflicted.
i wish i had a nickle for every time DH and i looked at each other and wondered if we SHOULD have beaten her.
but i just sit here broken hearted, and wonder what the path to taking care of her is.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

39. Have you done everything...

That both you, DH and your most trusted counselors can think of, and none of them worked?

If so, then maybe there is nothing more you can do? There is the concept of letting someone who is out of control hit rock bottom, as distasteful as that might be. Sometimes people need a crisis in their life to get them started on a more constructive path.

[TZ]

40. I wonder though..what is rock bottom?

Wouldn't you think being dragged out of the house by the police in handcuffs and involuntary committment in an mental institution be "rock bottom"? Yet my sister while getting the help she needs is showing signs that she *still* doesn't quite get it-things like saying "I sort of wouldn't mind staying longer and getting more help but I need to get back to my business" and then telling my mom how "wonderful" Mark is when everyone in our family despises the guy...I guess she still hasn't hit the bottom..should we let her move in with this guy and struggle or yet be homeless when he walks out on her?

[mopinko]

42. one thing i have learned- this shit takes TIME.

it is a shame that a week in the hospital is all most people get. even a month is barely enough time to get a true dx, and maybe find one drug that helps. back in the day, it was measured in months. it still should be. even a year is only a start.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

45. The most important component of "rock bottom"...

Is the person hitting it recognizing the fact that that thing that rapidly and forcefully impeding their downward progress IS rock bottom. That the only thing past this point lies physical or mental destruction on the most final sense.

If your sister is Bipolar 1, as you seem to have intimated in the past, and she is on a high-side event, she is going to show a lot of these denial behaviors. You have to remember that a Bipolar 1 person, in the grips of a manic decompensatory event of world-class proportions is on top of the world, in their eyes. They are the living source of power and glory in their eyes. Every thought is deep. Every "insight" is revolutionary and goes straight to the heart5 of every matter. Nothing is denied them, because they are ubermenschen. An awful lot of Bipolar people have admitted to me that they LOVED the high-side. In some cases, people actually become medication non-compliant because they miss the high-side. Seen it with my own eyes. Have a good, good friend who, right now, is going through it with his separated wife: refuses meds, drinks 3 1.75l bottles of vodka a week, never sleeps, stays up all night ordering crap from QVC and making harassing phonecalls.

It's just that while they are flying high, they have terrible judgement, no insight and no impulse control and tend to make quite a hash of their lives.

If you can keep her on the meds, get her titrated up to effective levels and without bad side-effects, get her into counseling that will help her restore her insight and impulse control and keep your wits about yourself in the midst of this maelstrom...wow...quite the laundry list.

But it has been done before.

[mopinko]

41. the crazy thing is

this kid WAS doing great. working, going to school, getting along. not that she wasn't still having troubles. she requires 3-4 phone calls to daddy a day, and a favor from mom, just to get from wake up to bed time. but she had really been functioning pretty well.
then kablooie. kinda why it seems like drugs were involved. they had been at something called the gathering of the jugaloes- sorta like the grateful dead, only for jerks. she said that people were getting into fights on the last day. dmx, ecstasy, and weed are big there. she always swears she doesn't drink or do that stuff, except weed, and we haven't had reason to doubt that.
the boyfriend is a different story. he is an eddie haskell kind of suck up, but with a short temper and taste for hard liquor. he was absolutely fueling the whole mess.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

43. Look, that "Juggalos" shit is really mindless.

And no, I don't get it at all, and yes, I am probably too old to get it and yes, I do think that the probability that drugs were there is about as likely as the surface of the sun is really, really hot. And take it from me, at Big Rock Shows, the peer pressure to indulge in whatever psychoactive crap the others are ingesting is huge. I know: I have worked at more Big Rock Shows than most people have had hot meals.

But the previous comment about "enmeshing" is the money shot: she has identified this guy as being her knight in baggy armor, her one, true juggalo love, or lust or whatever. She is only hearing his voice. Everyone else is attacking them, because They Don't Understand.

At some point, words fail. They will only get you so far and no farther and that seems to be where you are. She will not understand them because after feeding off the "rebellion of the gathering" with her peers(AIUI, Juggalo ethics are not about a great amount of societal integration and civic pride...).

You have a tough row to hoe here. At some point, you are gonna HAVE to give her enough room to fail miserably and then help her recognize the fact and put the pieces of her life back together. After all, you also have a responsibility to not let her situation get the rest of the family sick, if you know what I mean. Something like this can inject huge amounts of dysfunction into the whole family. But it does not have to. There are plenty of strategies to keep that from happening.

Because right now, she isn't listening to anyone but Knightly von Juggalo. Certainly not you. Sadly.

[TZ]

44. "Everyone else is attacking them, because They Don't Understand."

Wow..that's the exact same thing I believe my sister has in her head regarding this asshole she was having an affair with. She had the gall to start trying to tell my mother (who was visiting her at the hospital last night) how great Mark is...she doesn't get that we all seem him for what he is, while the family doesn't see that the more we yell at her about "bad behavior" the more she will believe that. I tried to explain that somewhat but I am not getting listened to, as usual.:banghead:

[mopinko]

47. joining you in

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

[mopinko]

46. i agree completely

right now i would be totally letting it float except for the fact that school starts next week, and no school no insurance.
in their twisted little minds, they are married, and gonna raise a family, and everything will be perfect. a lot of the things they were saying tell me he thinks he is the dad here, and has already saved our sorry little family. we just wont acknowledge it. that's how they know we are the crazy ones. see?

dealing with all this already has had an impact, sadly. shit, the whole family dynamic has been all about keeping her from exploding. everybody gets away with a WHOLE lot of shit because of that. i am enjoying the peace, as mixed with pain as it is.

[Larissa238]

48. Just giving this a kick

It's the holidays and many people are depressed and need to think of what makes them the great person they are

[mopinko]

49. since we are kicking this thread- i still don't hate my daughter

although she still thinks she does not owe me an apology, which is her ticket back into family citizenship. but, she is still in school, still working, and finding out what it means to be a grown up. she asked her sibs for a swivel sweeper for x-mas! pretty funny.
right now i am trying to stick to my guns about a few things, as is DH. besides apologizing for trying to kill my animals, she is supposed to return the stuff she took with her that didn't belong to her. we'll see what happens.

[Larissa238]

50. That's such a good thing

With all the crap that you have been through with her, it's much easier to hate than have the ability to forgive. Even if you haven't forgiven her yet, you still are open to the possibility, and that's great.

:pals: :hug: