People just don't understand depression...

[SemiCharmedQuark]

There is a huge backlash against it. People say I'm bowing down to corporate america. They say I'm weak for "getting the quick fix". They have no idea.

The funny thing about depression is, you never FEEL sick. You just feel like you're in a pit and you can't get out. I remember feeling like I wanted to die, but I was too much of a coward to do it. I felt more cowardly than the people too cowardly to live their own lives. So when they started putting me on medication, Paxil at first, and asked me if I felt better, I would say that I was, even though I was not. I have the scars where I carved a word into myself that testify to that fact. I look at my arm now and there are only traces of the word. Thank God it healed.

The thing is, when doctors would put me on a drug, the best they could do would ask me if it was working. I couldn't answer them. I could describe how I felt to a certain extent (less sleepy, more dizzy, more dry mouth) but I could not say whether I felt less depressed. I guess a good analogy would be that you never feel yourself growing taller. You just look back one day and realize you used to be shorter. However, if someone asked you every 2 weeks if you felt taller, you would probably say no.

You can trace my grades with my medications. Great...good...worse...bad...bad...(change doctor here)better...better...(start screwing around with drugs here)worse...worse...worse..better...better...better(doctor leaves here, so get new doctor who cuts ALL of my effexor off, from 300-0mg)worse worse worse (start new doctor here who puts me back on old medications)better...better...

I'm stabilized now (I think), but I don't know if Im living at full potential or not. I'm scared to death to change my medications and risk the adjustment period. The adjustment period for any change in medication is 6 weeks. Then if it has not worked, it is another six weeks to change it.

Im going to school to be a vet. As it is, depression and its treatments have added 3 years to my schooling. I know I'm not stupid. I've got a high IQ and an SAT of 1490. I know deep down inside that Im NOT stupid. But it's hard to explain why you are 3 years older than your classmates. I feel stupid. I firmly believe that what you FEEL sometimes dictates your life more than the actual facts.

[smirkymonkey]

1. I agree with you...

I went off my medication a few months ago (Paxil) and I am even more depressed than before. I just feel that I have no power to help myself and people keep telling me it will get better, I can "work" through it, blah, blah, blah - I don't think they really get it.

I don't want to do anything, I have no hope for the future and I feel that I have been an underachiever for so long (despite a very high IQ and a few degrees under my belt) that nobody will take me seriously. I can't seem to stop the cycle of negativity.

I am considering going back on another anti-depressant because I every day I am constantly preoccupied by the question "what's the point".

[SemiCharmedQuark]

2. Yes! That's exactly it!

I feel like a complete underachiever. Tests tell me I should be doing great things, but Im tired and lathargic. I feel like God wasted the gift of intelligence on me.

Thanks very much for replying. Best of luck to you.

-Steph

[smirkymonkey]

6. Thanks, good luck to you too!

Hopefully, one day our gifts will be fully realized! :)

[DemExpat]

11. I hope that you have good intensive support

to help you through this, smirkymonkey....to help you get through this period with such negative thoughts or to help you make the decision to try other meds.

Sometimes depression may be telling a person that they have been chasing after the "wrong" dreams and goals....it takes lots of time and soul-searching to sort it all out, and I would say practically impossible without a good therapist.

:hug:

DemEx

edit:
also tips that have helped me while tapering off meds:
regular aerobic exercize (I take long walks with my dog)

taking Omega 3 oils daily and eat more fish like sardines and salmon,

and keep away from caffeine....

[smirkymonkey]

13. Thanks DemExpat!

I am starting to feel a little better and more motivated and yes, I have really been bottoming out on the direction my life was taking, so I do think that in my case maybe there was some benefit to suffering through the withdrawal/depression for months. I am just starting to take some action toward changing things.

However, I have been struggling with comforting myself with my addictions (isolating, watching movies, drinking lots of coffee w/ cream and eating comfort food.) I really tend to withdraw in the winter months, and can't seem to force myself into activity. This usually improves as the weather gets warmer.

Sometimes I think the reason I get so depressed about my habits is because I berate myself for having them and tend to hold myself to ridiculous standards, knowing that I will probably fail. This sets up the whole "shame spiral" thing that is so debilitating for those of us suffering from depression.

I am starting to get the extra help I need and really trying to be rigorously honest with myself. Hope you are well! :hi:

[DemExpat]

16. Hi....

I am starting to feel a little better and more motivated and yes, I have really been bottoming out on the direction my life was taking, so I do think that in my case maybe there was some benefit to suffering through the withdrawal/depression for months. I am just starting to take some action toward changing things.

Since I believe that we are spirits here to learn and grow in this lifetime, how else are we to get strong signals that we are on the wrong path if not through some suffering? Depression to me is like any pain - a strong signal telling me that something is not optimum, not right. A signal to change something in my life - however big or small - to feel better.
Usually taking baby steps to change things is the best route, in my experience!



However, I have been struggling with comforting myself with my addictions (isolating, watching movies, drinking lots of coffee w/ cream and eating comfort food.) I really tend to withdraw in the winter months, and can't seem to force myself into activity. This usually improves as the weather gets warmer.

smirkeymonkey - this is completely normal behavior in humans in northern climates....a version of hibernation, if you like. :D
I live where in November to February days are short - Nov/Dec. it gets light at 9am and dark at 4:30....I don't like this period at ALL.

Just exchange the delicious cups of coffee with De-Caf.....and still enjoy your winter comforts.



Sometimes I think the reason I get so depressed about my habits is because I berate myself for having them and tend to hold myself to ridiculous standards, knowing that I will probably fail. This sets up the whole "shame spiral" thing that is so debilitating for those of us suffering from depression.

I am starting to get the extra help I need and really trying to be rigorously honest with myself. Hope you are well!

Yes, high standards, failure, and shame.....sets us up for failure and depression everytime until this cycle is broken!

Looks like you are doing some good soul-searching, and being brutally honest is an absolute necessity IMO.

The trick is to be honest and then still laugh at and love yourself for what you have seen! :silly:

:hug:

DemEx

[smirkymonkey]

17. Thanks! I have actually had some major breakthroughs over

the last few days and I think I am finally seeing what this is all about (for this round, anyway) It's been very tough, but what I am going through (have been writing, speaking up in my 12 Step meeting, mostly just sharing my truth, etc.) is all starting to come together and make sense.

It's really big stuff (family, childhood, abuse, etc.) but I am finally seeing the patterns in my life and I think this will help me to break through. In this case, it seems as though the suffering was not all for naught.

I like your take on things, Dem Expat, it's very spiritual and ultimately, I think that is what we are here for. Although when I am in the depths, I can't see it. Facing my stuff has been the hardest thing I have ever done, but it's paying off. :loveya:

[DemExpat]

18. Please PM me if you want to, or need to vent when in the depths...

the times that the depths return become fewer and farther between - to the point that when they retun in my life - and I can assure you that the feelings "feel" the same as they were, just awful - I can just sink into them for a bit, write them into my journal, and move on.

They also dissipate faster now than they used to. Now when they return, it doesn't freak me out like before....it is more like seeing an "old obnoxious friend" at my back door unexpectedly....:spank: :D

I am such a believer in brutal honesty, smirkymonkey!

:thumbsup:


:hug:

DemEx

[hedgehog]

20. Talapia also has the omega 3 oils

Does anyone know about cat fish? I'd prefer to stay with the fresh water farmed fish.

[jdots]

3. It's a question of sensitivity in a country that is anti sensitivity

The fake laugh,the small talk,the denial of imagination and art.
Most times i feel outside of the outside looking in on the people left out.Everyone seems to think that achivement is about screwing people to amass a fortune or fame and fortune.We are told that the good people win and then see the opposite so much recently.
They tell us the happy pills will make the world go away,and they do sometimes but in the case of effexor after a few years the crap comes back like a flood. perservere you are not an under achiver,you care and that isn't in fashion much of the time.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

4. Effexor? Im on that.

I've been on it for about 2 years. It's ok, but I dare not miss a dose or I'll spend the rest of the afternoon dizzy and sick.

Thanks very much for your reply. It amazes me how many people who consider themselves "good people" still cling to the belief that "good people succeed, bad people end up homeless". Even people who consider themselves good people and are on the verge of homelessness will repeat this. Perhaps they hold on to it like a security blanket. If it is indeed true than it is only a matter of time before the phone rings and that dream job is offered.

You spoke of imagination and art. Haven't they done studies that show that creative people tend to be victims of mental illness? How many authors were seriously depressed their whole lives or even went as far as suicide?

[smirkymonkey]

5. It's so true, and people don't understand anti-depressants

either. I have a friend who infuriates me with his insistence that depression can just be overcome through sheer force of will and perserverence.

I am giving my detox from Paxil one more month and then I will decide whether I need to go back on an SSRI (probably generic prozac due to the cost and longer half life).

I really can't stand it when people who know nothing about depression and anti-depressants (other than their own personal experience) sit in judgement of those of us who are struggling to cope with this on a daily basis.

[no name no slogan]

8. Wow, good luck with the Paxil detox

I had a really rough time coming off that one. Beware of the panic attacks-- they scared the crap out of me. It felt like I was having a heart attack :o

[SemiCharmedQuark]

10. Yes, good luck with the detox.

I came down off Paxil, but it was a bad trip. I was also going on Prozac at the same time so maybe that made it worse. :shrug:

[smirkymonkey]

14. Yes, it's been hellish, but I think I am starting to see the light

at the end of the tunnel, so to speak.

Thanks!

[no name no slogan]

7. Very good posts on this subject

And you're right, people really don't understand it-- until it happens to them.

I suffered mightily for a bad episode I had about eight years ago. In the course of six months, I got married, lost a grandmother (who was a 2nd mother to me), bought a house, and changed jobs. Also, my meds stopped working, and needless to say I had a very severe crash.

Consequently, I could not work for a couple of months. This absense all but guaranteed that I would not go any further at the company I worked at. Yes, HR knew about it, and they helped me get through everything, but my immediate manager NEVER gave me a positive review after that (after consistently getting them from other managers at the company for years).

And you're right about the link between creativity and brain disorders. I don't know of a specific cause/effect relationship, but some of the most creative people in the world have had mental health issues.

Good luck with Effexor. I'm on that one, too, and have been since my last major episode eight years ago. And I know what you mean about missing a dose. It can cause a "mini-withdrawal" that can be very annoying to say the least.

I actually went on the extended release version of Effexor a few years back, because I was missing my afternoon dose repeatedly. It has helped me tremendously, as now I just take two pills in the morning, and forget about it for the rest of the day. You may want to look into it-- most health plans have it in their formulary, and it's no more expensive than the regular Effexor, usually.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

9. Yes, it is taken as a sign of weakness if you take medications for

I get most of my medications from relatives in Mexico. At my psychiatrist's office just yesterday, they had an add was done by Glaxo-Kline (?Im not sure if that's right, but the makers of Wellbutrin) that said "Your CANADIAN drugs are made WHERE???" with a picture of three nuts with 3 names of "less than desirable" countires. My drugs are made in the U.S. and shipped to Mexico where I buy them for half the cost, thanks. Even so, I'm just damn lucky that I have regular access. Thank God that my mom can help me pay for them. Even so, the cost is roughly 1000 dollars for six months for just the Wellbutrin and Effexor. Seroquel I have to buy from the regular pharmacy unforunately. I think it's about six dollars per pill (200 mg).

People who support Bush claim to be tough on crime. But how many inmates have some mental disorder that is left untreated due to cost? I think I heard the number once at 70%. I wonder how far universal healthcare would go in decreasing crime. I can't remember how many times I have heard of a mentally ill person committing some horrible crime and when asked why they were not on medication or in the hospital it is because "the insurance ran out".

Thanks for the tip about the extended release. I was on Wellbutrin XR for awhile, and it was a lot easier than SR. It's difficult to get though since it is relatively new.

Thanks for your reply. Take care.

Steph

[no name no slogan]

23. Effexor XR may be available in Mexico

I've been on it for about five years now, so chances are it may become available in Mexico soon, if it isn't already. However, because it's newer, they may charge a higher price. Damn drug companies...

I live in MN, and our Repub governor has been very good about importing drugs from Canada. In fact, there's a state-sponsored website that allows MNans to order directly from Canadian pharmacies. I'm also a State employee, and I can get certain drugs that are on the Canadian Pharmacy's formulary for FREE, which is a tremendous benefit. So far, Effexor is the only one on there, probably because Trazodone and Lithium are relatively cheap in the US (often cheaper than my $20 Rx co-pay).

Hope everything is going well for you-- this time of year really stinks for many people (myself included). Chins up, etc. :)

[hedgehog]

21. Check out "Touched with Fire"

and all the other books by Kay Redfield Jamison.

[rockedthevoteinMA]

12. Hi SemiCharmedQuark...

I don't know if they have done any studies that show creative people tend to be victims of MI, but Kay Jamison has written a book all about Bipolar people and their creativity. It's a great read (and a good pick me up for anyone who suffers from a mental illness, because it tells how mental illness can be chanelled creatively.)

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/068483183X/qid=1107979584/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/103-2571036-2818238?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

The march of science in explaining human nature continues. In Touched With Fire, Jamison marshals a tremendous amount of evidence for the proposition that most artistic geniuses were (and are) manic depressives. This is a book of interest to scientists, psychologists, and artists struggling with the age-old question of whether psychological suffering is an essential component of artistic creativity. Anyone reading this book closely will be forced to conclude that it is. Very Highly Recommended.--This text refers to the Paperback edition.

I bought a copy shortly after my Dx, and loved it.

[hedgehog]

22. Kay Jamison is really good at

emphasizing the cyclical nature of the disease.

[bling bling]

15. I know what you mean.

The thing that was the most frustrating for me was the lack of will/motivation/energy I had and nobody seemed to understand that I didn't have any control over it. I seriously didn't even have enough motivation or energy to pick up the phone when it rang and talk to someone much less keep up with my regular activities.

Depression sucks the life out of you. I literally feel like I lost 2 years of my life because of it. I don't know if I'll ever completely be back to normal the way I was before it happened.

No, people who haven't experienced it have no idea how serious it is.
The worst people are the ones who've had the blues or slight depression after a break-up or something because they think they understand and give you all sorts of advice on what helped them to recover. Then they look down on you because "they were able to get over it" so you must be weak if you can't. But the depression they had is not the same as clinical depression yet they don't understand that there is a difference.

[hedgehog]

19. Isn't it amazing that diabetics aren't expected to wean themselves off ins

Some diabetics can cure their diabetes with life-style changes, others must live with it their entire lives. It's the same with depressive illness. People just don't get it. Yesterday I heard Dr. Andrew Weill on NPR recommending Buddhist meditation as a cure. That tells me he's never really encountered serious depression. St. John's Wort may be relatively harmless in and of itself, but not if it keeps someone from getting the care they need. Suicide is a real risk with depression. For some, alternative medicine for depression is akin to using Vitamin C to cure cancer. It won't hurt you, but it keeps you from getting effective life saving treatment.

That said, I am on Buspar, Wellbutrin & Luvox myself. I was still sleeping too much and experiencing day time drowsiness. I recently added a half hour of sitting in front of a full spectrum light 1/2 hour each morning. It's really helped. I'm not giving up my meds, but the combination of meds and the light seems to be working great.