help

[medeak]

looking for help here... son is clinically depressed... couldn't attend law school for 4 weeks (ironically after election as felt there was nothing for him to do anymore) couldn't get out of bed yet could not sleep. Drove to him (where I am presently) and he looked wild eye'd and like a homeless person. He finally agreed to see therapist at his law school after I called and told them this was a crisis. He admits I've been on suicide watch for more than a week. Am in motorhome with him ...two weeks and totally drained. Would appreciate any thoughts...have coped well and he seems to be making baby step progress but very needy. But I'm having total melt down tonight or let down.. it's good to cry I know. But seeking some support. There is nothing worse than seeing your brilliant child (has written 3 thesis has two master degrees) suffering so much. Who would think Obama winning would trigger such depression.

[blue neen]

1. I have been there, and it is unbelievably tough.

My son was in his second year of college (he even had a scholarship) when I had to bring him home because of clinical depression. It's so frightening, and watching your child suffering is heartbreaking.

There were many, many times when we just took things minute to minute, and I mean that literally. Use any resources for help and support for yourself that you can...are there any counselors at the school that you could talk to? Is there any type of crisis counseling available where you work? NAMI is a good organization that can be a big help to families.

If it helps to know this at all, my son is now doing very well. It took the right combination of medications and some counseling, but he's on the right track now. There is hope for you and your son.

Good luck.

[medeak]

2. you made me cry

just knowing there is a voice out there who understands. Thank you so much for responding in my weakest moment. (((hugs)))

Minute to minute... I totally understand. Oh to be dumb and happy.. think the smart ones overthink things?

[elleng]

3. Depression is depression;

'cause' unnecessary. Meds and therapy will help; meds will take a while to help, but keep with them. Different meds work differently with different people.

I'm a lawyer, and was depressed w/o knowing 'til my doc diagnosed. Bad/sad stuff going on at home had me down down. Now, life goes on.

Be hopeful; hugs to you and him.

[mopinko]

4. 2 things you can do now.

one- a good quality cold water fish oil, salmon is the best, has been clinically proven to help with mental illness. 1 gram a day is the usual recommendation. higher doses have not been shown to help. or hurt.

two- get him to eat. so often there is a viscous cycle between lack of appetite, lack of sleep, and depression. if you can get him to eat, his favorite foods, whatever, it will help. if you can get him out to eat, more better.

bonus- if you can get him out to walk, especially if you can go along and get him to walk and talk, it will help a lot. especially with the sleep.
and get him to a doc doc, and make sure he is ok physically. make them do a cbc, and if he is anemic, get that fixed. it is a big contributor to sleep troubles, and easily remedied. sleep trouble is a major cause of depression, and sometimes easily fixed. maybe some ambien or something will go a long way, also.


now, have a good cry, make sure you are eating and sleeping, call your best friend and cry, and :hug: for us. vent away. and as elleng says- cause not necessary. there are things that get to you because you are depressed, but that does not make them the cause. the cause is a derailed neurochemistry.

[medeak]

5. ordered truehope supplements

doctor friend recommended... www.truehope.com vitamin and mineral supplement that supposedly has 85% cure rate for depression and bipolar disease. Looked at ingredients and had enormous amt of B-12 which was going to get anyway. Think I'll take it too! You're right.. need workup for him. I have hypothyroid and he may as well.. and living for years on his own not eating well. Definitely has deficiencies.

Thank you for your support. Definitely had meltdown last night.

[mopinko]

6. i would temper my hope.

i can promise you there is no 85% cure rate. nothing does that. but good nutrition will help, and just plain getting enough calories can make a diff. it is easy to forget to eat, or find it to be too much trouble. and enjoying food is a deep seated animal satisfaction that can help anyone feel better.
thinking that a supplement will fix this is only going to delay getting the right treatment, and that is a dangerous path to walk. take it seriously. and have some trust and hope in the psychiatric profession. they have saved many, many lives. i only suggested what i did because diagnosis and treatment take time. you and he both need to feel like there is something that can be done now.

do what makes you feel better, tho. have some chocolate. buy some flowers. go to the movies. taking some pleasure in life is important. protecting and caring for yourself is something that most caregivers put last on the list, to everyone's detriment. easy to say, i know too well. but sometimes it helps to get a noodge.
:hug: <- repeat as necessary.

[medeak]

8. there must be something to it

as doctor says researcher he knows was doing study on ingredients at Harvard and was pressured with losing job to stop (pharmaceuticals she presumed were pressuring higher ups.) Think cognitive therapy helps best... son has appt Monday. It's second time and he's only going as am pressuring him although he likes psychologist. It's a good day if he gets dressed. But it's only been two weeks and don't feel like am doing suicide watch like previous week. Thank you for all your ideas!

[mopinko]

11. hmmm

i can't picture a harvard researcher getting pushed around, but maybe i am naive. i do tend to believe the best instead of the worst. i admit i have a real thing about this whole issue. so, maybe i am not the person to talk to about it. most stuff is harmless unless it delays effective evidence based treatment.
don't know where you are or what your resources are, but he sounds like he might be better off in the hospital. think of this as cancer of the brain. he needs help. i know how hard it can be to get someone in his situation to accept help. but he needs it.
i don't say this to dog you. but i have been there, and know that it can be hard to do the right thing. it is all very scary, for you as well as for him. and i know there is a voice in the back of your mind that is telling you to do something. listen to it. kill that fear. you don't need it.

pm me if you want. we can talk some more.

[medeak]

12. new privacy laws make that virtually impossible?

University would not allow me to make appt for him even tho I stressed how bad the situation was. They would only agree that I could call and hand phone to him. He's 26. Friend has schizophrenic brother and despite him burning houses down it took her politically connected attorney husband 7 years to get him admitted to a group home to monitor meds. What a country. Am waiting for weather to break to drive him 700 miles home where we have better connections. Thank you so much for pm offer.

edited to say.. at the very worst I could call adult protective services..but hope it certainly doesn't come to that!

[mopinko]

14. it was rough even for my daughter at 16!

but remember this- the magic words are- a danger to himself and others. if you truly feel he is suicidal, you have to say it. it is hard. i know. but they absolutely, positively have to help him if you say those words.
getting someone involuntarily committed long term is indeed a trial, as it should be. but getting him treated short term is not the same thing. if you can get him to go to the er with you, he will get treated starting now. if you can't get him to go, you can call 911 and tell them the same thing. they should come and get him out of the bed and into the hospital.

stay strong.

[elleng]

15. mop, one of those 'unintended consequences'

of regulation, hippa crap, came from clinton, didn't it?

[mopinko]

16. it's not hippa, really.

laws about involuntary commitment, and the limits of family involvement in medical and psychiatric care have evolved since the 50's. find the movie "frances". a primer on how things were back in the day.
hippa has become the all purpose excuse for everything. i suspect most people don't even really know what it says. (i know i don't!) i know it doesn't say that a parent can't be told about their 16 year old, but they sure hid behind it. i know it doesn't say that a next of kin can't get treatment for a relative in danger.
docs hide behind it, doing what they think is right, whether that is the law or not. they know that many people will accept it as an excuse.
i can tell you this- if it comes down to it, if you walk in there with a lawyer, they will sing a different song. or just plant your feet.
i had a nurse try to face me down, and tell me that she couldn't tell me about a lab test for a drug level. i stood my ground, and insisted that i had to know. (i did!) i went back and forth with her in the waiting room at the clinic. she finally said she would talk to the doc. i went home. low and behold, a couple hours later, i got a call from the doc. got the results.
this was the same clinic, a top tier university clinic, that made me sign a release every time i went in there for 5 years. the law actually said that you had to sign once.
they don't know. they just find it a convenient excuse.

[elleng]

7. Do look into thyroid; I'm hypo,

and can drag me down. 'Easy' to address.

[medeak]

9. what do you take?

was just diagnosed and put on pig thryroid..supposedly natural but hearing not good if pigs are diseased.

[elleng]

10. generic synthroid

.

[medeak]

13. what a wonderful place this is

think this board is truly the nicest respite on all of DU.

[medeak]

40. doc said the same thing!

re fish oil... xoxox

[nadine_mn]

17. been where your son is

although he is very lucky to have someone who cares. By the time I hit law school at the ripe age of 21, I was binge drinking and had been a cutter for about 7 years. In law school I was a wreck, I would black out for days at time only to wake up having cut and too much to drink.

I was going through this alone, so it was very hard. I saw counselors (the Dean of the law school made it a condition of me staying in school), but it was a joke. They seemed more worried that I wasn't suicidal than anything else. I spent half the time explaining cutting is different, and making fricking safety plans. I was also working 40+ hours a week (in violation of ABA rules), volunteering, and doing the usual overachiever crap. It wasn't until about 4 years later when I had a total breakdown and called the emergency hospital saying I was going to hurt myself (and seriously was put on hold then asked if i could drive myself to the ER...because a person in crisis behind the wheel of a car screams safety) that I finally got someone who put me on medication.

I know a lot of people have different ideas about meds, but honest to god, Zoloft saved my life, my marriage, and my sanity.

The thing with mental illness, as I am sure you know, is that it usually surfaces one someone is in their 20's.

Here's the shitter about law school, unless the rules have changed, you have 6 years to complete it from the date you first enrolled or you have to start all over again. So you have the pressure of having to finish a very expensive (well for me because I drank away my scholarships) education at a time when your mental health can be the most vulnerable.

I would encourage him to take some time off school... seriously. I was one freaking class away from graduating and just couldn't do it. Took 2 yrs off and finally (with that clock ticking in the background) finished. I wasn't on medication yet, but I was in a much more stable place. I was married to a wonderful man who gave me the love and support I needed.

I wish I had taken time off before starting law school, my last semester was the most enjoyable. I was maturer and happier and knew better what I wanted. You say your son has 2 master degrees.. so he sounds like an overachiever as well. Sometimes we get caught up in the achieving process and lose sight of why.

My mom always introduced me as her daughter who was going to be a lawyer when she grew up. That mantra was pounded into my head everyday. I never even thought of an alternative. When I got to law school it hit me... what the hell am I doing? I am not at all saying this is what is going on with your so, just telling you my experience in hopes something helps.


I can say this, sometimes when things seem the darkest, you think you will never get better. But sometimes help comes in an unexpected way and light comes in. I met my husband when I was at the peak of my mental illness. I felt like inside there was this constant storm and turmoil. On our second date I experienced a calm I never felt before and I knew I would marry him. It was 2 years and a lot of ups and downs before that happened, and we will be married 10 yrs next month. He still has no idea what a calming and safe place he is for me (ok he has some because I tell him all the time). I am not saying another person is a magical cure, its just that the last thing I was looking for was a relationship... I was so sure I could do it all alone (even though I wasn't doing it very well).

I didn't have a parent who cared enough about me to see me through those dark days and I can only imagine how much it must hurt and drain you to see your son suffer. You being there is so wonderful and I hope that you find some help here and anywhere.

Sorry I rambled, its just I kinda know where your son is and I can say things did get better.

:hug:

[mopinko]

21. i think there should be an almost mandatory break after high school.

it would help many, many people. i know some stray away from school. but, imho, school is pretty over-rated.

[medeak]

23. your post means so much

there was a relapse last night (he went to his apt and spent night there and did not do well alone) We know he's not been well for last 2 yrs but atrributed it to despondency over English professor not getting letter of recommendation mailed to law school and thus putting him in limbo. He lived like a homeless person trying to save money... actually stayed in someone's garage with no heat. But If am truthful to self can't blame everything on that.. he needs help and hope I can find it. Your story gives me terrific hope that is needed right now. thank you... hear him stirring so had better check. Wish I could just live on this forum for awhile. Everyone has been so helpful

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

18. You're a good man.

You're doing everything you should be doing. I'll pray for you both.

[hedgehog]

19. When something bad/sad happens, people blame depression on that.

When life's going good, and depression hits, people ask what you have to be depressed about. Whatever actually causes depression, it can be independent of outside events. (I'll add that a lifetime of stress and/or trauma can result in depression over a seemingly trivial incident, the straw that broke the camel's back theory)

The good news is that people can be brought out of a depressive crisis. My experience is that depression is a chronic disease, so some sort of treatment has to be on-going.

While you're checking vitamins, do some research on Vitamin D. I imagine as a law student your son spent more time in libraries than out in the sun!

[mopinko]

20. i was gonna throw that in.

i have battled fibromyalgia for years. recently found out my vit d was deficient. actually, they changed what was considered normal, so my borderline level became deficient. just now getting it back up. will see how that all shakes out. but it is apparently very, very widespread. and causes a lot more than rickets.

[medeak]

22. you have that right

lived in England and now Portland...zero sun. thank you so much for sharing

[hedgehog]

24. I know that we aren't supposed to give medical advice here, which is

why I always tell people to look up the subject and decide for themselves. I about fell down when I read the report that when they studied photo therapy for Seasonal Affect Disorder vs Vitamin D supplements, it was the Vitamin D that won hands down. The people who study immune disorders such as rheumatoid arthritis are also studying Vitamin D as are the diabetes researchers. WE always heard you need Vitamin D for healthy bones, but it turns out to be critical in all sorts of processes.

[medeak]

25. interesting

friend runs medical clinic in Alaska and doctors make all employees sit in front of photo therapy on breaks. Will tell her to look into that. Do you recall what report you read?

[hedgehog]

26. There's a lot out there - here's a sample:

http://www.biopsychiatry.com/dvit.htm

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/vitamin-d/NS_patient-vitamind

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16959053

[mopinko]

27. it's the endocrinologists that got the ranges

changed. this is a recent thing. interesting stuff.
will be curious how this shakes out for me. i have been taking a pretty good dose daily for quite a while, as my bones are borderline. but it didn't even nudge it. in fact, it went down a notch. (do not know what the units are.) so, i have been prescribed a weekly gianormous dose.
getting tested one of these days soon. very curious.

[hunter]

28. I'll second that. It can be -- indeed it probably is -- independent of outside events.

If you look for reasons you can make yourself crazier than you are.

Meds and therapy work for me, not the kind of therapy that uncovers any reasons really, but the kind where you simply figure out how to make your life work.

I have a wretched history of mental illness in my family, it's quite clearly biological, and just recognizing I was the next guy in the chain helped me cope with that. I don't have to be one of the many entirely dysfunctional nuts in the family tree. I don't have to have an anxiety disorder like my grandma, I don't have to be a hoarder like my other grandma, I don't have to isolate myself like my grandpa, I don't have to kill myself like my other grandpa.

I can be me, and make it work for me.

[a la izquierda]

29. Perhaps I know a little bit how your son feels.

I'm not suicidal...I'm just a hot mess. PhD student, working on a dissertation. I'm married...I have a lot going for me. Yet I feel as if I am going to drown sometimes.
I cut, I have body dismorphic disorder and my hair is falling out from anxiety. I'm a 31 year old cutter, that is the dumbest shit I've ever heard. Nobody knows how badly I feel. Guilt, depression and anxiety are completely killing me. I am undiagnosed. I cannot wait to go to the doctor next week.

I hope your son gets better.

[medeak]

30. so do I call 911 ?

son took off and not well. Thought things were going well...but convinced it's not just depression. Hit by ice and snow storm and psychologist never made his appt although son did. Schools closed for rest of week. wtf do I do... am trying to get him out of this state and back home but if can't leave in window (am in motor home and water pipes froze and broke and sewer line and had shit all over me) am stuck here.. HELP ME. he's holding me hostage? he's fucking sick.. So I call psychologist that met with him once and say he's a danger to himself but psychologist doesn't even friggin show up to college for a week? A big man he is.. it's not like I can force him to go to ER?

[nadine_mn]

31. At this point it does sound like you really need professionals

not sure which state you are in, each state has different protocol, but you can probably have him committed for his safety. Usually the poice will come and take him to the hospital if they feel he is a threat to himself.

Do you know the crisis lines and numbers in your area? PM me if you want and I can do some looking around for resources (hey I used to do it for a living). Sometimes in a crisis it can be helpful to have someone just do some basic info gathering.

[elleng]

32. nadine, thanks for your help here.

.

[mopinko]

33. some clarification-

son took off- like left into an ice storm?
son showed up but psychologist didn't- so, son went that far, but the guy can't talk to him on the phone? or let him know he can't get there? is this the guy that he had already talked to? is this a different one from the one that is mia? either way, he has a duty to help someone who is a danger to himself. remind him if you have to.
not just depression- more serious? you think he is playing games?

i agree with nadine- try to get him to go along to the er, but call 911 if you must. my experience is- in all things, it is a whole different system through the er. you can wait weeks to get in as an outpatient, but if you say you need help in the er, you get it now. try to let him know that he needs to be honest if he is going to get help. if he isn't willing to say that he is suicidal, they can't do anything. if he is, they can help him. at least they can keep him safe.
this is serious. i know you know that. remind the rest of them if you have to.

[medeak]

34. drove 300 miles today with son

excaped out of friggin ice storm.. had to go to coast out of way to get out of road closures but realize his doc is pathetic and unbelievably unethical to stand up a pt in a crisis without so much as a phone call. He's compliant today and we are on way home albeit a long way on ocean (which I always find healing anyway) Thank you everyone. DU saved my sanity for last 7 yrs re Dubya and now again. ((((hugs))) to you all.

[medeak]

35. update

son tested extremely high levels of Epstein Barre virus (mono). He's having further tests as such high levels are rare and can have many causes and indicative of other things like chronic fatigue syndrome and even multiple sclerosis... he's doing much better emotionally but too tired to do much of anything. Just posting for others that may find themselves terribly depressed when there may be another viral cause possibly.

thanks to you all for your help.. he still is getting counseling who tell him he is not depressed? But it doesn't hurt to cultivate life skills xoxo

[elleng]

36. xoxo yes, life skills are handy,

but don't tell me I am not depressed!

Thanks for updating. Any anti-depression meds, or 'not necessary' determination holding?

[medeak]

38. still evaluating for depression meds

disease process is number one right now with doc

[mopinko]

37. so glad to hear that they are able to put their finger on something.

and so good that they did look for a physical cause. so often they don't.
good luck to him in getting some treatment. keep us up to date.

[medeak]

39. thank you so much

the strange thing is my Mom was treated for terminal cancer 15 yrs ago...she's still alive and kicking with not one reocurrence and I was visiting her doctor's website to give to a friend.... and her doc after being funded by cancer institute of america as only doc curing pancreatic cancer....is now treating chronic fatigue syndrome. It's blowing my mind...as he saved my Mom's life and now studying what perhaps son has?

(amazing man..met him and exwife who works with him..she told me she couldn't live with Albert Schwietzer 24 hrs a day) not giving medical advice but just sharing as amazing story:

http://www.dr-gonzalez.com/index.htm