anyone else

[undergroundpanther]

Has anyone else here given up on trying to make the world make sense?
It's always sorta annoying howe people claim this same old magick formula everytime I bring this up as if a certain Faithfulness that everything has it';s season will erase trauma efects that have scarred me on the inside of my heart foer my life. This "knowlege of a higher power" is what makes some people assume or think the world makes such perfect sense. For me It NEVER made sense.lIke why should I as a little kid be hurt so bad what good purppose is that for? In fact I think abuse and torture HAVE no good purpose.
I have my higher power contact and I am quite spiritual really(non Christian and that is how I want it to stay)
But I never get the grand unified feeling everything in this sick sad world makes sense or it has some unified purpose for all this suffering( I felt this way even when I was a christian for a time for all you christians).
Then when I say that I have spirituality and it still makes no sense to me certain folks (including MH "professionals")tend to say I have no spiritual connections or that I am lost or some other crap that basically blames me for not feeling like they do and it disregards the hell I lived through..
Than I heard the idea that trauma burns or scars your brain and I fear my brain may be"stuck" burned into this feeling.
My doc suggested ECT and I looked at him like he had 4 heads and said Hell No,,Do you need a therapist now? ECT is like kicking the TV set when the picture gets snowy it's about that sophisticated in realityI value what little mind I have left thank you very much.... He shut up about the ECT.

So,
How do you cope with a reality that is random,capricious,full of suffering both inside yourself and all over the world? Ever get fleeting suicidal feelings? Not enough of a signal to be a warning sign to go see the doctor or admit myself,just enough to feel crappy all day and feel hopeless?
Sometimes I find myself awaiting my own death by natural means,like my ticket away from here away from suffering, away from my own misery into non existance or some other different life or reality state.I have no clue what haoppens to consiousness after death All religions IMO all guess and hope.. I am not scared of death nor to I desire it enough to make it happen anytime soon.
I feel this way about my life even though I occupy myself alot,I socialize fine,and all that and I see I do have impacts in the world.
But it just does not satisfy my emotions. Sometimes I really do not see much happiness when others think I do.A certain joy seems to hover around some people and I have never figured out why I don't feel it too.I do all the right stuff.I take my meds.. Yet ironically others discribe me as bubbly evervesent ,strong ,funny freind. Sheesh.
I don't get it.

[DemExpat]

1. Do you have access to regular counselling?

Private or in group form?
Or good friends/family with whom you can be open and honest with? Even about this stuff?

Sometimes this is what we need to get good feedback on how we come across to others, along with how/why we present ourselves in a particular manner to the world.

This is a good way to start making sense of the world and our place within it.

But to make sense of everything that has happened, is happening, and where that is leading to?

Nobody knows, imho.....

But when one feels comfortable with oneself after gaining some insight and self-acceptance, and surrounds oneself with (a few) loving friends and maybe family, life is good.

That is what my life's experience has taught me so far....

:hug:

DemEx


edit:

Physical exercise, relaxation, and maybe some form of meditation are all good ways to ground ourselves in our bodies and on this earth - anyway, they help me to feel more part of things....of this world.
If I do not do one of these things on a regular basis, I find myself starting to feel weirdly estranged from the world and even from myself, so for me, it is a very powerful aid to take care of myself in this manner.

one more thing: I believe that trauma does scar for life, but does in no way detract from the amount of joy one can experience in life.
Some biographies of people who have gone through the worst of hells on earth have lived to tell the story of a life lived with meaning and joy afterwards.

One counsellor I had about 12 years ago told me not to focus on the entire world, but to make my little "postage stamp sized" area of life here on earth the best it can be for me and for those I love.
This proved to be excellent advice for me at the time.

Sorry, I find myself rambling on here, and kinda preachy as well...!
:D

[Droopy]

2. Regarding the way others describe you

(as bubbly, strong, funny) you may be those things in reality to your friends and family, but inside you're not feeling too good. I know when I was suffering from the symptoms of my illness I tried to hide it as well as I could, but in the end I was so fucked up that it ended up spilling out into the world in a big way and I had a breakdown that hospitalized me.

I don't know what to tell you to make you happy, but I will try and suggest a few things.

First, find some people in your life that you trust and tell them how you are really feeling. I know you are already doing this with your therapist (at least it sounds like it) but having other people that you can talk to and who can give you support is vital to feeling better. I know that for sure because those people in my life are my parents and they've been there for me when I needed to talk and it really helps.

Next, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't one of the uses ECT a treatment for serious depression? To me it sounds like your doc is having a hard helping you through conventional means. Are you sure you are telling him/her everything? Therapy won't work very well unless you are completely open and honest so be sure you are telling your doc everything. If you think you are having a communication break down with him/her I suggest you print out your original post and have him/her read it. I'm not accusing you of anything. I'm just trying to come up with some ideas.

I've been suffering from depression, also. I've been feeling a lot better the past couple of days. It's probably due to an anti-depressant that was prescribed to me about three weeks ago. But what I see in the world still makes me sad.

There really isn't much you can do about some of the hardship that other people go through. I'm talking about people who are suffering around the planet due to poverty, poor medical practices, political opression, and poor living conditions. I think the most that you could practically do is volunteer or donate to charitable organizations that help make a difference.

As far as the emotional scars go that mark your mind, I'm not sure what to tell you. I have them, too. Most of mine are self inflicted or rather inflicted by my illness. I'm still haunted by those memories of emotions and thoughts that almost killed me. I'll probably never be free of those reminders that I am ill and I must be under the care of a physician for the rest of my life. The only thing I can think of is to deal with those scars in therapy as much as you can and one day you may not be bound to them like you are now.

[jdots]

3. I think alot of us are artists

in a country and world that has become anti art.Imagination and expression are percieved as a weakness unless they bring financial rewards.Tell someone you're a musican,writer or artist and they ask if you make a good living or are a celebrity.It isn't about that,it's about expressing your observations if you feel left out of the party,and the depression can make you feel like there is no use in trying .

[undergroundpanther]

8. I agree with that

I just got done a canvas of a lion face.It was a round canvas.The lion is done in metallic golds silvers and coppers offset with black.The eyes are goldleafed.Looks cool.
I have really lacked motivation for art.It's like I paint or sculpt and it looks beautiful but I still ache inside.
It took me the better part of a month to motivate myself to paint this lion.I still get ideas in my head.My muse still kicks my ass,but I just..lose momentum.

[no name no slogan]

4. IMHO the only 'sane' people are those of us

who can see the insanity and utter nonsense of this world. Those who stumble blindly through life thinking that how we live is 'normal' are the ones who need help.

IMHO there's only two ways to deal with it: cry, knowing that it cannot be fixed. Or laugh in its face, and do whatever you can to fix it, knowing all along that there are many other good people on this planet trying to do the same thing.

[DemExpat]

5. When it comes down to it, I totally agree with you on this and

have this thought quite often......

IMHO the only 'sane' people are those of us
who can see the insanity and utter nonsense of this world. Those who stumble blindly through life thinking that how we live is 'normal' are the ones who need help.


:-)

DemEx

[no name no slogan]

6. I have a really good quote about this somewhere

It appeared in a video I made with my band about 8 years back. Our video guy was just getting started with computerized video editing, and he dropped in a very powerful quote on the screen over some weird stock footage. I'll see if I can dig it up...

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[smirkymonkey]

9. One of my favorite Krishnamurti quotes....

"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."

I sometimes wonder if the mental health professionals have it all wrong. Depression and a feeling of going mad IS an appropriate reaction to what is going on in this world. Depression and suicidal thoughts ARE appropriate reactions to a lifetime of abuse, etc.

I come across as pretty together on the outside, but I have moments where I feel like you do. Like when people tell you, "well, all this pain is for your spiritual growth..." which makes sense to me at times and then I think, "well who/what the fuck is ultimately deciding that this particular feeling soul wants to go on this journey?" Like, why can't we just get off this Karmic Hell Wheel if we want to?

The only thing that makes sense to me is that our "sin" that we are "suffering" for is our erroneous way of seeing life and through a spiritual path and enlightenment we come to a place of clarity where pain is just an illusion. I don't know, I'm just rambling...

Hope you feel better!

[undergroundpanther]

10. I think

Humans are born good.

I don't believe in"original sin"
I think sin is a learned thing,you learn it from the viloence bullying and abuse this world of adults and cruelty of"nature" and competition teaches you and you are forced to participate in to sutrvive.
Outr culture is all about cocercin might makes right winner take all and master and slave.

Kids who get betrayed hit,and do as they are ordered to or else..learn what sin is by the hand of the dominator..

After a serious betrayal, everything changes inside trust is broken the world is dangerous.. and the goodness inside fades as obedience,the illusion of good made by fear replaces the natural state of creativity,peace,security, trust, decency,love...with a rabid insecurity, a will to power,greed fear and ambition to win, to top the whatever it is that hurt you.And for some people)myself included) the hurts have been so many,from so many places, for so long they just lash out at reality itself,and the perversity of it all.I crybecause I know it does not have to be like this,I can value love over power ,So if as human beings we'd value lovingkindness over winning dominating and ego strokes things might be different.

Sadly I think it won't be different in time to save ourselves from each other. I think too many people have been manipulated by this society, invested too much in a sick way of life,Too many people have been betrayed/abused/discounted/assaulted bythier ignorant parents as kids,and hurt too deeply,by the cultural sickness to see it.Still the parents are in denial that spanking is assault,(you can see the denial on DU even) and they just don't get it,theat thier momentary desire to dominate thier own kid shatters thier trust and ruins any hope of respect and security the kid may have..and it takes along time to trust again..Parents who hit certainly don't want to admit what they do hurts,and likewise the powerful abusers of the public trust don't want to admit how corrupt they are...And who's gonna force them to be honest about thier issues,sickness and failures at being human beings if thier consience is dead?

It has always been the problem of people who can cooperate and live and let live,and tolerate pluralism....what do you do with the bullies,exploiters and ambitious who will not leave you be?

I try to share to care and not bystand..But it is too much to take sometimes.I feel like my love is a drop dissapearing into an ocean of agony.I feel like humanity is has really lost it,and it is just going to crash itself,by committing slow murder/suicide...on a global scale..Because for ages humanity has been so abusive to certain sections of the population,it has mistreated the Earth itself and the Animals,and the dominant /profiteering ones cannot feel why what they do is wrong and abusive to others.The dominant,winner and popular bullying people won't listen to others they see as"inferiors",crazy or fluffy,When in reality it's some of these people they are so quick to dismiss who have grown past the destructive, selfish,urge to control others.The dominator class will not stop seeking power,and listen it fears it may be forced to be honest inside with a narcissistic malignant ego that cannot stand to hear the ugly dark,tragic truth about what has been done in the name of winning.

I wish there was a way to make bullies feel empathy.

[rasputin1952]

11. This may sound simplistic, but sometimes the simple truth is...

there are things in this world that do not make sense.

How can anyone justify scalding a child, because they are crying?

How can anyone justify screaming about killing innocents via abortion, yet not mind killing innocents by capital punishment?

How can people say that it is 'good and noble' to blow oneself up to reach a higher plane of some heaven, yet not just do this themselves it is such a grand idea?

How can people use a religion, any religion, to justify hatred and intolerance?

How, as a species, can we justify killing off approximately 36 million people between 1936 and 1945?

This world often doesn't make sense, and if we accepted what I have mentioned above, would be sane or insane? We are progressives, we are not insane, we are seekers of the truth. We are the ones that can and will change things. We might not see the fruits of our labors, but our children will.

The neo-cons are the real ones with the problems. Rather than see that they can better the world, they are marching steadily back to the Dark Ages.

Every time you answer a call to aid someone, no matter how small your aid might be, you have worked to help make this a better world. You or I will never change the world, but we can change the part we are in. We can make it a better place for people to live in. A place without fear, a place where there is true justice and equality. Every time you smile at a child, you make this world a better place. Every act of kindness you do, you make this world a better place. Every person you protect from harm, you make this world a better place.

This is your touch with spirituality, it is no great mystery, it is how we treat our fellow travelers through this life that makes us spiritual. It is how we see the beauty through the mist and smoke that gives us our spirituality.

Each day you live and impart what you have learned, you become more spiritual. You are doing fine my friend, don't think world size, think of all the good you've done in your neck of the woods...:)

[diamondsoul]

12. Question-

Have you tried just focusing on your little corner of the world for a while, doing what you can to make YOUR little portion of this planet make sense?

I just wonder if focusing on a grand scale might be too much for you to try to process. I know it is for me but then I've only just started down the road to recovery about 2 months ago.

[undergroundpanther]

13. Yeah

But my "corner" is hopeless,it really is an uphill struggle that has no rewards for me really.
I really don't enjoy much about my life in my 'corner'.
I do my art,I draw or paint whatever.I feel like the people I live with will NEVER understand me,they don't want to, and frankly they are too overwhelmed with their own shit to care about mine.My mom is in la la land,she is as self absorbed as can be.We are two very different people and we are virtually strangers..we relate on nothing.

I look at where I live as a place to sleep, to eat,to store my stuff, Here I occupy space... My house is not a place to find emotional support or any real relationship because there is none there..,unless you express yourself in a narrow quickly over with way that offends no one..(i.e. the narcissists of the house)

Cause'if you offend it's projection time and I must pay for the emotional support by being berated or listening to their troubles with for at least an hour,or I can avoid it all and accept it is all MY fault..I feel the way I do.I wish there was alternatives but in this world you are on your own.Financial equality that helps people escape bad homes is taboo,Only the wealthy can be needy and get away with it without shame or strife in America..The corporations want their fucking cheap labor, landlords want mo-money because they got shelter and you gotta exist,and everybody wants their piece even if it kills someone else..No one cares who gets ground down in this fucking system.I have no hope.Not for my"corner" not for this fucked up world or this cursed pay to exist game humans have made out of life.I have given up on my corner.And I feel like giving up period.

sometimes I wish my heart would just stop.I'm so tired of this shit,this life that is,This life I was forced into.I didn't want to be born I was forced here.

[DemExpat]

14. Have you no means to leave this house?

Or to make the plans and take the steps to do this?

I know that I felt similarly miserable living with my parents in my early 20s and did not start to be able to build myself some better kind of life until I left home.....extra hard to do with mental illness....
:hug:

I do not have a religion per se, but my personal philosophy is that we are born into this life with a mission - to sort out our complex problems and to try to be a force for good in the world - with love.

And we don't have to really get very far in this ideal, but to take the steps is vital imo. One baby step at a time.

One counsellor I saw quite a few years ago made a big impression on me with this simple advice - to try to make my tiny "postage stamp-size" corner of the world as nice (not only in a material sense, of course) as I could make it for myself and any eventual loved ones sharing my space - to not try to change the whole world at once until I had my own world in a little order and peace.....and to do this openly recognizing/accepting my handicaps. For some reason these words really opened my eyes.

I hope you feel better very soon.

DemEx