Help!

[sandnsea]

Family member tried to commit suicide. Long term bi-polar.

Here is my question.

Can somebody explain, preferably from a first person experience, the difference between being in that dark clinically depressed suicidal place --

and everyday grief when something tragic happens, like losing a child.

Is there any kind of "fire plan" that a person who is that suicidal can self-recognize and put into affect?

Thank you.

[david13]

1. Only if they want to.

From my point of view, for me, I can, or have in the past been able to bring myself out of it, or away from it. By making that decision.
But over the years, I have seen others, and there really is nothing you can say or do to change their determination.
There are a 1000 platitudes or slogans against it. That apply to anybody & everybody. But when a person determines their course, we are helpless.
The difference from ordinary grief, is that ordinary grief does not involve and type of self destruction, or suicide, or harm to others.
You have a benefit in "tried". Tried, rather than did indicates a cry for help. A desire to manifest the depth of the grief to others. That means there is still hope.
That means action can be taken, counseling, therapy, etc. Which can work, and is more likely to work.
dc

[sandnsea]

2. self destruction, harm to others

If you can, can you expound on that a bit. If that's too personal, I understand.

We've been going through this with this family member for at least 20 years. All kinds of therapy, medications, several suicide attempts. This particular attempt was pretty horrific, although no longlasting consequences.

I understand intellectually that clinical depression is different than the depression of grief and loss. I was just trying to translate it to a level of some kind of empathy that I could relate to. Compounding depression and agony with an almost obsessive desire to self destruct and inflict pain while doing so is an addition I hadn't thought of. Thank you so much for that piece of the puzzle.

[Jennicut]

3. Its a long term every day feeling of being down not related to anything specific

I have had depression since I was 20...going on 13 years now. Eventually it was partly diagnosed as PMDD (Premenstrual dysphoric disorder) and partly a lack of serotonin in my brain. I would get terrible mood swings, depression, suicidal thoughts, thoughts of wanting to just walk out of my dorm room and just never come back (I was in college at the beginning of it all). Not related to anything, no real reason other then anxiety from being in college and away from home. I think I had it in high school too. One semester I stopped going to class, barely took showers, barely got dressed, stopped eating much. My Mom was very concerned and brought me to a psychologist. I was put on meds after that and they have helped.
Sometimes if I forget to take my Lexapro and its near my period all the old feelings come back...the sense of no self worth, feeling down for no reason. Then come the suicidal thoughts. The minute I feel just a bit down or knocked out of balance by one little thing, that is my sign. I have never tried to commit suicide however. I never got that far...the meds seemed to work for me.

[sandnsea]

4. Thank you so much for sharing

I sincerely appreciate it.

I understand that it's not related to anything external, it just *is*. I wonder if part of the difficulty in handling it is constantly trying to talk therapy your way out of something that isn't related to anything emotional, even if you've got emotional issues.

Anyways, what I don't understand so much, is what it feels like to be in that place. I once had it described as a black hole that you couldn't get out of. Do you try to talk yourself out of those feelings or is it just plain all-the-time "down"? Once you are really down, is it possible to "talk" yourself out or is intervention the only real hope? This is around the 5th time and I'm afraid there will be no return one of these times. We've got to come up with some kind of plan.

[Jennicut]

5. When you are in the black hole its so hard to see a way out.

There have been times when the depression has been really bad and no matter what anyone said I could not get out of it. My Mom actually had me committed to a psychiatric area of a hospital for a week when I went through the first depressive episode at age 20. Worst week of my life and yet it did me good and I saw people way, way worse then me. Almost made me frightened and I wanted to leave badly. The months afterward were so hard and the depression came and went. Somehow, I found a way back with the right medication (Prozac at the time) and the right psychologist. I consider myself lucky as some people never find a way out of that black hole. The only thing you can do is be sympathetic, supportive and let the person know you won't abandon them no matter what they say. I said a lot of stuff to my parents and brother during that stay at the hospital...I was just so depressed I didn't know what I was saying and did not really mean it. I needed them badly. Maybe if someone is with the family member as much as possible to pick up on their moods. My Mom still calls me every day....checking up on me. I have diabetes too (more depression over that came!) and two kids and a husband. She wants to know I am handling things okay.

[sandnsea]

6. Okay, thank you

I live very far away. My sister is there. It sounds like figuring out some particular symptom and then being honest about it is critical.

I hope everything continues to go well for you! Hug those babies, it's true they grow up too fast! :hug:

[Jennicut]

7. Thanks! Good luck with your sister, hang in there.

:hug:

[mopinko]

8. william styron named his book about it "darkness visible"

i have not read it, but i understand that it is a great description of what it is like. i think dick cavett wrote a good book about it, too.
bipolar is even more complicated. it leaves a person wondering which half they are, and not being able to understand the world on either end. kicking themselves for the actions of the other half.

you are right that no amount of talk, by itself, will ever help (imho). repeated suicide attempts is heavy. sounds like this person needs meds. but of course, bipolars are so bad about that.

is this person taking meds or self medicating?

[hunter]

9. For me, the "self recognition" is the first thing to evaporate...

I think that's true with a lot of mental illnesses.

Whenever I'm balanced, when my meds are right, I've recognized by wretched experience I cannot trust the emotional memories and impressions of situations I suffered through when I was depressed and not balanced.

Depression is something entirely different than grief or pain or trauma. With grief or pain or trauma you feel more alive, more present. With depression you feel less alive and distant and it doesn't make any sense, but your mind is not looking for any sense. That's the way it is with me anyways.

I sure as hell wish I could have some sort of "fire plan" I could implement for myself, but I've got two things working against that: First I don't recognize the fire, and second I get paranoid and don't believe it when other people tell me there is a fire.

The only thing I've got going for me is I don't tend to become a danger to myself or others. I'm impossible to live with, yes, but it gets so bad with me that I don't figure it matters if I'm dead or alive and some feral animal person is exposed, surviving in the moment.

[shadowknows69]

10. Well said hunter. As far as a "fire plan"?

When I do recognize that I'm drifting into the dark, which has been luckily frequent enough to keep me alive thus far, I sometimes literally have to tell my brain, out loud, to STFU. In so many words. Don't know if it will work for you but it's been kind of a verbal/virtual "slap in the face" I can give myself.