RE: The criminally insane killer that got loose in Washington state

[Tobin S.]

I've read a couple of threads about it here at DU. They seemed to be a bit on the argumentative side so I didn't really want to get involved there. But I thought it would be a good idea for us to discuss it here in the safety of our little group. I think the most disheartening thing I saw in those threads was someone advocating the death penalty for mentally ill people who have committed homicide. For the record, I don't advocate the death penalty for anyone. It seems like a very ineffective way to tell people that killing is wrong.

Some of us here, hell, maybe all of us, are involved with trying to make a difference in how normal people think about mental illness. We try to make people understand here at DU, and maybe other places on the internet, as well as talking to our families and friends about the issue. Several of us probably even give money to help promote the cause. I donate to NAMI. But it seems like all it takes to impede progress is one story about one mentally ill person doing something wrong. People don't understand and they don't want to understand, "That shit's crazy," and it sets us all back.

We commonly hear inspiring stories about how people have overcome cancer, or diabetes, or some other terrible illness. I go to weight loss classes and there is one woman there who no longer has to take diabetic medication due to being able to control her symptoms with her diet. That's excellent. It's a great story and she loves to talk about it. It's inspiring, particularly to new, obese people just starting the program who also may have a similar problem.

That same weight loss program has benefited me greatly. Not only have I dropped a lot of weight, but my mental well being has improved because I've stopped treating my body badly. How do you think I would be accepted if I told the class about my illness and how I had once been psychotic; that there were still a few lingering milder symptoms that I have overcome with my diet and weight loss. I said something like that one day, even avoiding the term "psychotic," and was greeted with silence and wide eyes.

I hope to see a day when I can talk about this stuff the same way people talk about other illnesses. Mental illness should not be taboo outside of the doctor's office. I'd like to be interviewed by a reporter about my illness and what I went through and how I have overcome my symptoms. I've seen a few stories like that, but they aren't on page one or CNN or Fox. Nope, the stories they prefer to run about mentally ill people are about the few of us who have harmed someone or attempted to. It might be a little better if they interviewed a competent psychiatrist to explain how those people came to do the things that they have done, but we get some stupid TV doctor who doesn't know the difference between psychiatry and psychology- or seemingly anyway. Mental illnesses need to be de-mystified. Right now the only explanation many people probably have for mental illness probably wouldn't even pass for a good urban legend.

Your thoughts?

[lightningandsnow]

1. I know what you mean...

I have an anxiety disorder that I guess is pretty mild in the grand scheme of things, although it affects me quite a bit. I take meds for it (cipralex), and sometimes I bring it up, much like someone might bring up being on meds for diabetes or high blood pressure. I usually bring this up in the context of not being able to drink because of my meds, and I get kind of a blank stare from people.

Another time, I told a friend that I had an anxiety disorder, and she basically told me to suck it up because all teenagers have anxiety. Sigh.

[Odin2005]

2. The "violent schizo" bigoted stereotypes are alive and well.

For us Aspies there is a lot of bigoted nonsense in some circles, some idiots think we are sociopaths. :WTF:

[mopinko]

3. i think it is a step in the right direction, but not enough.

imho, it beats thinking that people are possessed by devils, or just evil, or that their mothers were cold. understanding that the chemistry of the brain can go awry, and that such people are sick, is a step toward really understanding the human animal.
it is, of course, colossally stupid to mix every person whose brains are not in the fat middle of the bell curve in with charlie manson. and the distinction between personality disorders and mental illness is lost on most people. to say nothing of people who are artists, aspies, or other people who are a little different.
we have a long way to go. but i do think that we are moving toward understanding.

[medeak]

4. husband's sister is a sociopath

sexually abused her 8 yr old daughter bringing her to bed time after time with her boyfriends and claming "you wanted it" when her daughter asked her why. I raised both her kids after we knew. We live in fear of her as she finds the most evil people to associate with and seeks them to kill us and parents. phone is unlisted. Those are my thoughts. Don't know what brought me here tonight...but visiting her daughter now giving birth to first baby and seeking restraining order against her mother if she finds where she lives. What pray tell do you do with someone like this?

[mopinko]

5. what do you think made her like this?

just wondering if they had a tough upbringing, or if this is just something that popped up. are there others like her elsewhere in the family?
my personal opinion i that people are born like this. not necessarily that they start being "evil" as children, but that they do not process the nurturing and discipline that make most of us grow up to be decent people.
and just a personal question that i have- do you know if she had a difficult birth? i have this theory about subtle birth damage and personality disorders.

i think that our only hope with people like this is a serious scientific inquiry into how these brains grow and function. maybe stem cells will help. in the meantime, i dunno. microchips and fema camps? i just dunno.
best of luck to all of you.

[medeak]

7. when my husband was born when she was 2 yrs old

she thinks he ruined her life. She's from very affluent family and was doted on. She started scamming family and friends for $ at age 9 although she had all the money in the world. Very elaborate lies. Had many abortions before they were legal and family flew her to Japan for them. We did intervention when she was in her 20's as she was dealing and using drugs (while pregnant) but the drugs actually made her more easy to be around. Then things got scary.

[mopinko]

9. sounds like she was born that way.

normal children adjust to new siblings. and parents tend to dote on troubled kids. not that they think they are precious, just that they may explode at any minute.

i have often wondered if there is research out there about birth trauma or prenatal troubles related to personality disorders. always had that in the back of my mind that my troubled kid was the one who had a tough birth, with the cord wrapped around her neck.

[medeak]

10. think it's inherited

her mother has some sort of personality disorder

[mopinko]

11. double whammy.

bad genes, and a similarly defective parent. a regular vortex of bad.

[medeak]

12. next door little boy poisoned fellow 4th graders

and hurt dogs in our neighborhood. He DID have the worst childhood possible. Was found in Salt Lake City at age 4 going through a dumpster trying to find food for his baby brother. His mother was drug addict homeless person. He was adopted by my neighbors and his baby brother was adopted by another couple. Neighbors were trying to manage him by rewarding good behavior with visits to his brother who he adores. However the other adoptee parents don't want any contact after the poisoning episode. He was tossed out of school district and spent every day in Head Start with 3 yr olds until 13 yrs old and there was a class for emotionally disturbed kids available. We live in a remote area and no real help available. As frightened as our neighborhood was of him we felt so bad for him as he was left outside in the worst weather as parents didn't trust him in house alone as destructive. Just a heartbreaking story and he has the face and smile of an angel. I have outdoor landscape lighting and he destroyed all the electrical cables as "the cameras are watching me" sigh So question is... was his childhood a factor or was his mother a mentally ill woman self medicating with drugs and he inherited?

[Tobin S.]

6. You can't doing anything with someone like that

But you can take measures to protect yourself, which sounds like what you are doing. I know it's personal to you, but if you didn't know someone who was a sociopath you would be just as likely to have a Violante crime committed against you by a sane person.

http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/36/9/10

"In reality, said Wahl, mental illness is a poor predictor of violence, ranking well after these factors: youth, male gender, history of violence, or poverty. Aside from people who abuse substances, people with mental illness commit violent acts at the same rate as nonpatients, and 80 percent to 90 percent of people with mental illness never commit violent acts."

That comes from a good article about media bias and mental illness.

Also from the same site:

http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/40/17/16

"Victimization rates vary with the type of violent crime, said the researchers. People with mental illness were eight times more likely to be robbed, 15 times more likely to be assaulted, and 23 times more likely to be raped than was the general population. Theft of property from persons, rare in the general population at 0.2 percent, happens to 21 percent of mentally ill persons, or 140 times as often. Even theft of minor items from victims can increase their anxiety and worsen psychiatric symptoms, the researchers said."

That's what I was getting at. I suffered from psychosis for 10 years solid and I never hurt anyone, just like the vast majority of people like me.

[medeak]

8. thanks

future daughter-in-law (dated son for 5 yrs) is bipolar....appreciate the bias against mentally ill.