Nine Days - Who Will Die?

[Matilda]

I've just finished re-reading all the Harry Potter books to bring myself up to speed before the 21st,
and looking for clues as to who will live and who will die. I'm sure the clues are there, because
eveything JK Rowling writes seems to have a meaning and a purpose, but it's very hard to second-
guess her.

She's dropped two clues so far, outside of the books - two will die that she didn't intend to die
and that her husband was very upset about one of them when she gave him the names.

So I'm assuming that the two are in addition to the usual suspects - Voldemort, Lucius Malfoy,
Umbridge - they're bad and deserve to die, but the two she didn't intend to kill off are most likely
on Harry's side. And her husband would only be upset if the character was someone we all probably
like - Harry's friends, plus one more that I'm sure we all secretly like - Snape.

I'm sure that Snape is going to be one - I think he will turn out to be on the good side; I'm sure
he killed Dumbledore because he had to let Dumbledore know about the Unbreakable Vow, and Dumbledore
had instructed him that if he had to, he would keep his vow. Dumbledore was obviously weakened by
his taking of the ring, and even more so by the attempt to retrieve the locket, and he knew that
Snape would be more valuable to Harry at the end than he could be. Snape will be there when Harry
needs him, but as soon as Voldemort realises, he will want to get Snape out of the way before the
final battle with Harry.

But the other one - that's hard. I don't think Harry - he could only die as a kind of sacrifice,
but I think perhaps it's not called for. I think it will be Voldemort instead of Harry, not
Voldemort and Harry. The only thing that bothers me about Harry is his attraction to the veil in
OOTP - I think that veil is going to feature again; it wasn't finished with, and there's just a
nagging fear that Harry might want to join Sirius behind the veil. But practically speaking, it
would kill the last two films, and upset too many people.

Looking for a sacrifice that might have meaning, the most obvious seem to be Neville Longbottom or
Ginny Weasley. Neville is linked to Harry because of their shared birthdate, and Neville's need
to avenge his parents too. He's been gaining strength, and may be brave enough to take on Lord V,
but not strong enough. And Ginny - it would be closing the circle if another woman were to die
for love of Harry, and she's brave enough. Her death would be very hard to take, but it would
also be appropriate - and perhaps it would weaken Voldemort in the same way that Lily's love did.

I'm putting my money on Snape, but for the other I'm torn between Ginny and Neville.

Anybody else come to any conclusions?

[katsy]

1. I'm sooo waiting for the Hallows.

Someone on another thread made a very strong case that Hagrid would die. That would be in line with a pattern of losing parent figures (mom/dad/Dumbledore/Sirius) to Voldemort.

I do believe Snape will die and agree with your analysis.

IMO, Dumbledore was already dying at the beginning of the HBP book... (remember what Hermione said about his hand looking dead) and he decided to try and save Draco as well as set Harry on the hunt for the horcruxes before he died. I think Dumbledore set Snape out to spy for the order and he and Snape both knew it would lead to Snape having to finish Dumbledore in the end. In that respect, Dumbledore may have set his own death in motion long before Snape made the unbreakable vow.

The other character I thought may die is Mrs. Weasley. I just remember her episode with the boggart at Grimwold Place. If not her, then Ron or Mr. Weasley. I can't stand the thought of Ginny dying and Harry losing her also. But you may be right.

Is it written in stone that only 2 main characters will die?

[Matilda]

2. Not just two to die,

but JK Rowling said two that she hadn't intended to die. I guess as she wrote, it just came out
that she was going to have two unplanned deaths, so it wouldn't refer to Lord V, whose death has
been set from the beginning (unless he could kill Harry first). That's why I'm inclined to think
she was referring to leading characters that we like and that she would perhaps have preferred to
keep, but the story didn't work out that way. And one of them upset her husband - I was trying to
think who a man would relate to, and I figured perhaps Snape - he's so magnificently malevolent!
(I like him because he speaks with Alan Rickman's voice).

I like your thoughts on Dumbledore too - I guess that's why he took Harry with him to take the locket
in Goblet of Fire, because he knew he lacked the strength. Obviously R.A.B. (Regulus Black?) did
it on his own, and once Dumbledore would have managed it, but after his episode getting the ring
he needed help. Yes, it all fits, so he would have had no hesitation in making Snape promise to
kill him if it proved necessary.

[katsy]

4. RAB... what if RAB was outside Hogwarts and nabbed the locket then?

Wouldn't Dumbledore have known the locket was just a locket when he & HP first found it?

After re-reading your post about Ginny... I'm more inclined to believe that it will be she and Hagrid that will die. Voldemort will die but HP will not come out of this without great personal pain.

I so wished Trelawney's prediction about HP living and long life and having a dozen children would come true (with Ginny).

Did you pre-order the book? If so, I'll meet you back here (Spoiler Central heh heh heh) after you read it.

edit: Do you think Fawks will come back to Harry?

[Matilda]

7. I have my book pre-ordered and paid for.

It's released in Sydney at 9.01 a.m. on the Saturday, and I just know some dumb journalist is going
to flick to the back pages and publish what happens. I'm going to have to tend to the usual
Saturday chores like washing and shopping, and probably won't be able to sit down with the book
until the afternoon. I'll have to keep my ears closed and my eyes averted from anything that says
Harry Potter so I don't find out the end before I have a chance to read the book.

I'll be coming here as soon as I finish it.

I've also wondered about Fawkes - I'd like to think he'll come back. He's a phoenix, so he won't
die, so I hope he'll belong to Harry in time.

[XemaSab]

26. Yeah, but Snape's death has been planned for a long time...

even since book 5, I got the feeling our Potions Master would not make it through... :(

[XemaSab]

3. My predictions:

Voldemort. Malfoy Sr *or* Jr. Bellatrix. Wormtail. Grayback.

Snape (I love him, but I really don't think he will live out book 7).

Hagrid. One or two of the Weasleys. One of the other teachers (possibly Slughorn). Lupin (I'm going to be really, really bummed about this). Moody.

Finally, either Hermione, Ron, Neville, Ginny, Luna, or Harry. :(

This is my dark, dire predition. :(

[katsy]

5. Of all the people I was hoping would die...

Umbridge would be it. Seriously, only Voldemort rivals that despicable character IMO. Twisted in the extreme and I would not be sorry to see her go.

Lupin's death would be tragic and if Greyback is at the scene... well, it would be horrible.

[DinahMoeHum]

6. I'm just curious to see if Snape had a romantic relationship with Lily Evans

before she married James Potter. Or maybe he just wished for one and never had it.

Not guessing the fate of the big players - but I do think there will be a serious, deadly altercation between the 3 Malfoys.

Anyway, I'm not losing any sleep over it - I'm not THAT obsessed.

:shrug:

[Matilda]

8. That's interesting, I've wondered the same.

There's more than just James's taunting of Snape to make Snape hate him so much, IMHO. I think
he probably fancied Lily.

[LWolf]

9. There are some very interesting predictions on this thread.

I, too, just re-read all of them. I'm ambivalent about all of my "guesses" except one.

I'm reasonably sure that Snape is loyal to Dumbledore, and has sacrificed his life for the cause.

I hope Umbridge eats it, because I despise her more than Voldemort, Darth Vader, and Sauron. I can't help it. I'm a teacher. She is a satirical representation of everything wrong with my profession.

As far as the "at least 2" deaths? I believe that Rowling means student deaths. We may see more adults die, but student deaths, the characters we've watched grow up in preparation for their part in the final battles, are those that will hurt the most. After Dumbledore, anyway. I just finished HBP yesterday, and could not believe the amount of Kleenex required. The despair at his passing, on the part of all, especially the adults, highlighted the power of hope, and of its counterpart, fear.

Who will die? After re-reading the first 3 books, I was leaning towards Harry. All that stuff about things foretold in the stars. After getting past TOOTP again, and re-reading the prophecy, I've changed my mind. Again. Harry lives because he kills V. Voldemort must die. All these years and books would be pointless if he didn't. While I don't think we completely understand the prophecy yet, I think that part, at least, is true.

I'm also going to say no to Ginny. After all the people Harry has lost along the way, there needs to be someone left to go forward into life with him. While he may, probably will, suffer more losses, I'd like to think that there is one who will finally not leave him.

I'll also say no to Hermoine and Ron. Not because I don't think it's possible, but because I don't want it to be them. I want them there, backing Harry up, all the way. I want Hermoine and Ron, who have finally acknowledged the deeper feelings between them, to have a future. At one point, I saw them living while Harry died, carrying his memory forward. Even raising the next Potter, should both Harry and Ginny die. That would be full circle, wouldn't it? I hope not, though.

My best bet, as far as students go, is Neville. There's always been more to Neville than he's been given credit for, and I think he will be a major player. I also think his history, and the things he shares in common with Harry, will play a part. It may turn out that the prophecy was intended for him all along. Live or die, I believe Neville is going to be a major hero. Luna may possibly die with him.

I think at least one twin, or both, may die. It "fits" their nature. Plenty of courage, plenty of willingness to take risks.

While other students may die as well, I think we can expect one or more of those major characters.

Others in the running: Malfoy? The ungracious part of me sincerely hopes so. The smarter part of me thinks that Dumbledore's efforts on his behalf will not be in vain. Hagrid? Good possibility. Another character with courage to spare. I noticed that Hagrid is one of the characters that completely mastered Dumbledore's most significant teaching about the power of love. Hagrid loves more freely than the rest. I think he'll freely sacrifice himself for Harry before the end.

McGonigal should also be in the running as a potential death, although I hope not. Hogwarts will need someone smart, strong, and brave to lead the school forward.

Percy? I doubt he'll die. I sure hope he'll be returned to his family, properly repentant, in the end.

[eridani]

14. I've always thought that Neville had really major powers that were occluded--

--by the heavy-duty forgetting charm that was surely used on him after he witnessed the torture of his parents.

I can't help but think that JKR never promised us that Harry would live. If he saw that the only way to put Voldemort away for good was to sacrifice himself, I think he'd do it in a heartbeat.

[XemaSab]

24. Or he himself was tortured...

:scared:

In a less ominous vein, he's also using his Dad's wand until the battle at the ministry, when it gets broken. He's got a new wand in 6, that's one of the last wands Ollivander sold.

[Mist]

30. Yeah, his having to use his father's wand (probably at his Gran's insistence) really

held Neville back. I think he's going to be a serious fighter in DH. I can't stand the idea he may die.

As for Weasleys, I believe I could deal with Ginny's death more easily than any other Weasley. No, that's not entirely true. If Percy died, I could deal with it ("Percy's a prat.") And, just because he's not very well fleshed-out as a character, I could easily deal with Charlie's death. But NOT Molly, Arthur, Ron, the twins.

[LWolf]

32. Good points.

Live or die, I think Neville will finally come into his own in book 7.

Harry is a toss-up; it could go either way. I don't doubt that he would sacrifice himself, if that's what it takes. As long as I've got a few days left, I'll go with the "he lives" option, and hope that V can be defeated without the ultimate sacrifice. Eternal optimist that I am. :D

[XemaSab]

10. Upon further thought and reflection

I think everyone's on the table.

I can't think of anyone other than maybe some bit players who aren't more than fair game.

I think the most tragic deaths would be the Weasley parents. That would be really rough. Rougher than Harry, Hagrid, or anyone else.

[jgraz]

11. I've been commanded by XemaSab to respond to this thread

Actually, she "Imperio"d me, which I think is a violation of DU rules...



Here are my predictions:

Harry: Lives, ends up married to Ginny and becomes captain of England National Quidditch team. Oh, and his scar is totally a horcrux.

Hermione: Lives, marries Ron, becomes Minister for Magic

Ron: Lives, becomes head of the Auror dept

Voldemort: Dies of guilt after Harry re-integrates his soul and shows him all the pain he's caused

Ginny: Lives, marries Harry, star Chaser for England

Neville: Lives, defeats Bellatrix, marries Luna, becomes Herbology Prof @ Hogwarts and a dueling champion

Luna: Lives, marries Neville, becomes Care of Magical Creatures teacher after discovering the Crumple-Horned Snorkack

Snape: Dies a hero's death after proving that he was working against Voldy all along

Hagrid: Lives, works with Charlie to train Norbert and the rest of the Dragons to help fight Voldy

McGonagall: Lives, becomes headmistress of Hogwarts.

Draco: Lives, betrays Voldy and helps out the good guys (though he's still a dick).

Lucius: Soundly defeated by Hermione (a muggle-born) and Draco. Returned to Azkaban for life.

Bellatrix: Defeated by Neville. I don't think Neville will kill her, since his parents wouldn't want that.

Molly & Arthur: Both live, Arthur precedes Hermione as Minister.

Fred & George: Both live, become fabulously wealthy after WWW products are key in defeating the Death Eaters

Percy: Lives, finally pulls the stick out of his butt after causing the death of a good guy. Spends the rest of his career cow-towing to Hermione.

Krum: Shows up to help and ends up killed by Percy's stupidity

Moody: Killed in the final battle with the death eaters :cry:

Lupin: Lives, kills Greyback with the help of Bill, returns to Hogwarts as DADA teacher. Marries Tonks.

Tonks: Lives, marries Lupin, heads up the Ministry's espionage wing.

Wormtail: Killed by Voldy after his life debt to Harry messes up some evil plan.

The Dursleys: Forced to leave Privet Drive in disgrace after discovering Dudley's heretofore suppressed magical abilities. Dudley's erratic powers result in his compulsory enrollment in Hogwarts at the age of 18. Vernon goes to prison for stock fraud at Grunnings.

Dobby: Lives. Becomes first elf to be awarded the Order of Merlin (first class) after rallying the Hogwarts house-elves to fight Voldemort. Marries Winky and succeeds Filch as Hogwarts caretaker.

Umbridge: Turned into a blast-ended skrewt by Voldemort

[Matilda]

12. You have some nice ideas!

I also hope that Dobby will do something heroic - I'm sure we haven't
heard the last of him.

The theory of the scar being a horcrux makes sense in that it could be an
explanation of the link between Voldemort and Harry, but the worry about
that is that as long as Harry lives, part of Voldemort's soul will live
in him, so that gives a possible reason for Harry having to die to truly
defeat V. Major worry.

I think the two unplanned deaths are definitely from the ranks of the
students, plus either Snape or Hagrid. I think one has to be Snape -
I'm sure he'd hate to live in a wizarding world in which Harry becomes
a major figure, and I think his ultimate sacrifice will be necessary in
order for him to finally prove which side he's on.

The other - I do have a feeling about Neville. There's always been
something tragic about Neville - he's so vulnerable, and he's suffered so
much from what V did to his parents. I too think he will be extremely
brave in the end, and will go down fighting Voldemort. I'd love to see
him survive as a hero, but I think it's more likely that he will die as
one.

And I too think Draco will change sides. JKR never does anything without
a reason, and I think Dumbledore's instinct will once again be proven to
be right. It's hard to imagine just what he could do to make us warm to
him, but at the least I think he will fail Voldemort and his father.

[jgraz]

13. Here's what clinched it for me (minor HP5 movie spoiler)

When Lucius is trying to let get Harry to give him the prophecy, he says something like "don't you want to know the secrets of your scar?". I know the movies aren't canon, but...the SCAR has secrets??? That's a very suspicious line.

I also think the wording of the prophecy is very suspicious: "neither can live while the other survives". This difference in wording is not just for flow, IMHO. I think JKR is telling us that neither can have a real, whole life while the other is alive. Either Voldy will kill Harry and extract the piece of his soul, or Harry will kill Voldy and somehow get rid of the fragment of soul in his head (Voldy Soul: apply directly to the forehead).

Re Neville: JKR has said repeatedly that one of the students will become a Hogwarts professor. She's made such a big deal of Neville's Herbology skills that I think it's gotta be him.

[eridani]

16. I could see Hermione teaching Transfiguration

--and eventually becoming Headmistress.

[XemaSab]

19. The other day I heard a question asked that I have never heard before:

Are Dobby and Kreacher still following Draco? :shrug:

[Matilda]

28. Not Dobby, I'm sure.

But Kreacher, would if he could. It seems that the elves don't have a choice - if Kreacher is
Harry's servant he's bound to follow Harry's order, but if he can find a loophole to evade his duty,
he will, as he did in luring Harry to the Ministry in OOTP.

I also wonder about Winky - she's not at all happy since she was freed, and has no loyalty to Harry
or Hogwarts. I think she'll be involved in the last book, and I wouldn't be surprised is she
does something against Harry, albeit unintentionally.

[XemaSab]

18. Brilliant!

You have done well, my faithful servant. :D

[eridani]

15. Even if Snape turns out to be NOT on Dumbledore's side--

---he might pull a Gollum at the end.

[jgraz]

17. I'll be very disappointed if Snape is on Voldy's side

JKR has dropped too many hints along the way that Snape is actually working against the Death Eaters.

[XemaSab]

20. Upon my recent reread of book 5

how do we know that Snape is really teaching Harry occlumency and not just softening him up?

[jgraz]

21. It's very carefully written to be ambiguous

The biggest piece of evidence to me is Dumbledore's continued statements that he trusts Snape and his flat refusal to explain himself. There's gotta be a big reveal in DH as to what the source of Dumby's trust was. Wouldn't that revelation be kind of lame if after 6 books of buildup it turned out to be wrong?

Just my opinion, of course, but I'll be pretty disappointed in JKR's plotting if Snape ended up evil after all that.

[jgraz]

22. Another theory

If Harry's scar is a Horcrux, that means he has a piece of Voldy's soul embedded in his head.

Isn't it interesting that JKR created creatures that can suck out a soul?

[eridani]

23. But Harry or somebody else would have to make them stop quick

--ight after the horcrux soul was sucked out. Any hints that the soul-sucking process could be stopped before it was completed?

[jgraz]

27. I dunno -- can you imperio a dementor?

That would be strange.

[Mist]

31. Even if part of Voldy's soul IS in Harry, it wouldn't matter. If Harry manages

to destroy all the horcruxes embedded in objects, then kills Voldy, wouldn't the scar then revert to being just a scar, as it was for 10 years? The scar only began to bother Harry when he first went to Hogwarts and Voldy was in the vicinity (though stuck to Quirrell's head). The scar began acting up more and more as Voldy became stronger (somehow he became "Voldy tot," then recreated his adult body in GoF.) With no Voldy, and no other horcruxes, wouldn't the Harry's scar revert to being just a scar?

[katsy]

33. The scar.

I had to go back and read the conversation Dumbledore had with HP regarding the danger of making a living creature, with a mind of its own like nagini, a horcrux. Dumbledore said that V may have gotten the idea to make nagini a horcrux after the snake killed the muggle caretaker.

If Dumbledore is correct, V's first living horcrux is nagini and that takes place long after HP got his scar.

Also, in the GOF, V challenged HP to a duel... why would he destroy his own horcrux? Wouldn't V be able to control HP by way of the horcrux to do his bidding much like he controls nagini?

Maybe the scar is the physical manifestation of Lily's love and desire to protect her child by giving him a tool, in this case, insight into V's mind in order to better protect himself.

That was just me typing outloud. I happen to agree with you that it won't matter either way.

[Matilda]

35. I think Voldemort created all his horcruxes before he killed the Potters.

He did it all while he still had all his strength, to allow for just such a situation as he found
himself in when his power was stripped from him. And Dumbledore pretty well dismissed the idea of
Nagini almost as soon as he'd thought of it.

Given the effect of the destruction of the ring on Dumbledore, and of the water he drank trying to
retrieve the locket, I can't see that Harry could survive if his scar is a horcrux - destroying it
would surely destroy him too. If that's the case, it could be that Harry would choose that death
rather than allow any chance of Voldemort surviving. Which begs the question - does Voldemort want
to kill Harry, or just strip him of power (perhaps by driving him insane, like the Longbottoms)?

I'm inclined to think it's more likely that the scar was the result of the Avada Kadavra curse
hitting Harry before rebounding to Voldemort, thus creating that link between the two.

[katsy]

36. All the horcruxes except nagini...

nagini, the living horcrux was created after wormtail returned to V.

>>> I'm inclined to think it's more likely that the scar was the result of the Avada Kadavra curse
hitting Harry before rebounding to Voldemort, thus creating that link between the two. <<<

That makes sense. Absolutely.

[FloridaJudy]

25. Off the wall predictions (I'm looking to take Trelawny's place)

Harry's scar is very much a Horcrux. In defeating Voldemort, Harry's scar disappears - but - Harry goes blind (all those allusions to Harry having his mother's eyes). Harry lives and retains his magical powers, but his Quidditch career is over. Harry may very well be the next DADA teacher, and eventually headmaster.

Snape dies while fighting Voldemort for Harry, since Snape has actually been a Good Guy all along. Snape killed Dumbledore at Dumbledore's request: Dumbledore was dying as the result of the potion he drank retrieving the locket as well as the damage he sustained destroying the ring, and his supposed murder at Snape's hands cements Snape's undercover role as one of Voldemort's minions.

Ginny dies, and Harry winds up with Luna Lovegood, who becomes the next Divination teacher, after Trelawny either retires or is killed by Voldemort (are teachers at Hogwarts allowed to be married? None have been so far, but maybe they'll make an exception for Harry).

I suspect that Ron may be doomed as well. Hermione lives: killing her off would be almost as devastating as killing Harry.

Neville has a huge role to play in aiding Harry's defeat of Voldemort. Neville's powers have been suppressed by the Cruciatus curse that disabled his parents, but when Beatrix Lestrange (who cast the curse) dies, Neville comes into his own.

And the sorting hat is a Horcrux: remember how it tried to sort Harry into Slytherin?

I expect only 10% of these predictions come true. I'm as lousy at divination as Harry.

And I am staying away from mass media until I finish Hallows myself. I have it on order at my local bookstore, and plan to pick it up at midnight on the 21st. I've had too many great movies ruined by fat-heads who couldn't keep their mouths shut.

[Matilda]

29. I don't think the Sorting Hat is a horcrux, but if the scar is,

that would perhaps explain why the hat picked up Voldemort's vibes and thought of Slytherin for
Harry at first. But then Harry's own nature was stronger and he was sorted into Gryffindor.

I also think Hermione will live - JKR said that one of them would become a Hogwart's professor, and
Hermione is surely the most likely. Potions, I would think.

Snape will surely die, fighting on Harry's side, so perhaps the two unintended deaths are in addition
to Snape, since his death seems so obvious (not that JKR always does the obvious).

Neville could die - bravely, but he just doesn't have the power to take on Voldemort, although I
think in the end he'll be brave enough to try. Of the other leading characters, it has to be
Ginny, Ron, or Hagrid. I'm going crazy trying to figure it out.

[CBHagman]

34. Okay, now this is a thread I can get into!

I've only just finished The Half-Blood Prince, and Matilda tipped me off to this thread. I'm fascinated by all the various theories and will check back.

[regnaD kciN]

37. Here's my prediction

One of the two deaths will be H... :evilgrin:

[Matilda]

38. I can't believe this ...

but I'm actually counting the hours until I have Deathly Hallows in my hands.

I think I need to get a life!

[katsy]

39. Get a life?

I'm trying to get mine out oof the way!

My husband will be taking over for the next few days... which includes the twins. HAH!

No life until the Hallows is read and digested.

Take the phone off the hook and stay off the computer.

:rofl:

[Marie26]

40. Only 14 hours away!

LOL, I also need to get a life. I've canceled any & all activities for this weekend - I'm planning to spend the next couple days curled up w/the new book. I can't wait! :bounce:

[CBHagman]

41. I'm helping out at a book release party.

Tonight the independent bookstore group where I have worked on and off for many years is running two book release parties. I'm going to help out at one and of course will be up through the witching hour and beyond. I have other things to do this weekend, so it's possible I won't get far into the novel and must avoid spoilers. That means reading no reviews and avoiding any news stories that discuss the book.

So if you see less of me the next few days, that's why. I've already temporarily sworn off the Lounge.

Have a good read! :hi:

[Matilda]

42. I think I'll have to wear blinkers and eag plugs when I go out tomorrow.

I'm planning easy-to-make meals and no non-essential activities
tomorrow or Sunday - at 700 and something pages, I don't think I'll
get through the book in one day (although I'll be trying). 7 hours
and fifteen minutes to go ....

I'll meet you all back here in a couple of days, I guess.

As CB said - happy reading! :D

[NashVegas]

43. Wow. Who Would Have Guessed? **** Spoiler****

Spoiler below -


























Dobby? That one bummed me out.