The Christian "magic" controversy

[robbedvoter]

2) The Christian 'Magic' Controversy: The few stories in the popular press and broadcast media that do not focus on the Cinderella story are usually about the 'magic' controversy. Several Christian groups and individuals have branded the Harry Potter books as satanic and gateways to the occult because of their magical milieu. This wrong- headed interpretation, almost 180 degrees off, remains an albatross around Ms. Rowling's neck. The thought that she is writing edifying Christian fiction is about as believable to most as the possibility that Osama bin Laden has been horribly misrepresented and is actually a Baptist minister living in Cherryville, North Carolina.
http://www.ev90481.dial.pipex.com/harry_potter_granger.htm


When the first movie came out - about the same time as Lord of the Rings, I was talking with another mother about kids movies. She was enthusiastic about this extraordinary upcoming event. I was totally ignorant of both so I innocently asked: "Harry Potter?"
Her face went literally white. It took her a moment to recollect, then she finally blurted: "I meant LOTR". I know the family is devout cathilics and the exchange woke my interest into why one is good, one is bad. (both use pagan myth - wizards trolls and elves - but the "bad" one is about a school, while the "good" one is about countless wars.
Best explanation I got here: LOTR takes place BEFORE their mythology - therefore they see no conflict (I bet them wars are a plus too).
Anyway, I thought it's a rich conversation theme, have at it.

[robbedvoter]

1. As a starter, here's a DU post I saved - because it was so very good:

radfringe  (1000+ posts) Sat Nov-20-04 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
36. similar experience regarding Harry Potter protests
The fundy maintained that kids are impressionable and reading Harry
Potter would encourage them to "cast spells"
me: oh, do your kids read the bible?
fundy: yes, we read it together as a family
me: you know, one of my favorite parts is where Jesus turns water into
wine, but I bet you don't let your kids read that part
fundy:
me: well, if kids are so impressionable that they try to imitate what
they read then won't they try turning water into wine instead of trying
to illegally buy beer? How about raising the dead? Your kids ever try
to raise a dead pet? Walking on water? Now that's an thought - if your
kids do that then think of the money you would save on swimming suits
and lessons.. Then there's the savings on food bills by having them
feed a multitude with a couple of loaves of bread and few fish -- it
would certainly help countries that are starving
fundy: that would be heresy...
me: maybe, but if kids imitate what they read - then best not let them
read the bible, they may try a to cast a few miricles and be damned for
committing heresy
fundy: my kids know the difference
me: difference in what? difference between fact or fiction? if they
know that Harry Potter is fiction, and the bible is true, then wouldn't
they be more apt to imitate fact than fiction?

The Radical Fringe
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/
duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2718477&mesg_id=2727487&page

[Pithy Cherub]

3. That is absolutley a great post!

The HP books are about life at its most elemental and the will to survive. It strikes me very odd that so-called Christians have such a vendentaa against Harry. Harry via Jo Rowling has been using his free will to do good! Even with the extra gifts of magic at his disposal he still chooses to do good. Those are part of the tenets and values of that the faiths of the world share. There is a reason that many faiths can see HP symbolism inside the books.

[outraged2]

2. it is crazy

I haven't been to church for anything but weddings and funerals in years and even I can see the Christian symbols and themes in these books- especially in Chamber of Secrets. I don't understand why people can't get past the setting and look at the stories themselves. Its nuts.

I read an article that made an interesting point that part of the problem about the books is more about the difference between Catholic and Protestant views on christianity than about magic. For Catholics it is an ongoing work in progress, and actions or deeds are everything, and the choices you make matter. But for the 'born agains' it is enough to say you have accepted Jesus which simplifies things and you don't have to work so hard, or even at all, at being 'good'. You can be the most horrible person ever, but because you say Jesus is your savior or whatever it doesn't matter.

The most threatening thing about this series is not magic but that it advocates thinking and even more importantly questioning. Now we can't have that - the whole corrupt power structure will come down if people actually started thinking about what is going on and questioning all the things that make no sense to them. Millions of kids (and adults) are being told that it is ok to ask questions and to do what is right, even if you have to break a few rules to do it. That makes the powers-that-be and religious extremists crazy.

On edit: sorry I went on a tangent. The linked essay is really good. I have read it several times. I read another article by the same man. He is an orthodox church member(Greek maybe?) who originally picked up the book to read so he could tell his daughters 'why we don't read trash like this' and to his great surprise found a story heavily laden with symbols and references that most Christians would, or should, recognize.

[robbedvoter]

4. I remember one reviewer who identified himself with the Durstleys

and blustered at Harry on their own terms : "ungrateful! strange" after all the good we did for him"! It was amazing, I wish I could find it!

[Chovexani]

5. Here's what I think it boils down to

And I think it has little if anything to do with the two different magic systems in each series. I think LotR is acceptable to fundies and HP isn't because of how good and evil are portrayed in each series. In LotR (and Tolkien's work in general), good and evil are very black and white; while good characters can be tempted by evil, there are few gray areas and good pretty much always triumphs.

Things are not nearly as clear cut in the HP books; while there is Good and there is Evil, the lines are much more blurred. For instance Harry is a Parseltongue (I forget the exact terminology, it's been quite a while since I read the books), and that is a trait normally associated with dark wizards. Then you have characters like Snape, who while he is Harry's foil and is also with Slytherin (the "evil" house), and acts like a jerk a lot of the time, he is not necessarily evil. He even comes to Harry's defense on several occasions (like way back in the first book when Quirrell tried to knock him off his broom during the Quidditch match).

Personally I think fundies identify with the muggles and they are just offended at the portrayal of muggles in the books. Like robbedvoter I also read a review to this effect (it might even have been the same one!), I just can't find atm.

[outraged2]

6. yes

You're right, all that gray area is a big problem - its hard work. This quote sums it up for me:

In the Harry Potter books, as in real life, people don't wear tags identifying their morality. This flies in the face of simplistic efforts to divide the planet into "us vs. them" and "good vs. evil doers." As in our world, mundane corruption and mismanagement builds in Harry Potter's as the general public blindly supports the misguided and malign who employ counter-productive rules and punish innocents while ignoring real threats. Harry, Ron and Hermione overcome obstacles even though many in power won't help and most people refuse to even listen to them.

In typical children's literature, only "bad kids" disobey adults, and they get hurt or into severe trouble. Heroes seldom question authority, and if they do, they quickly learn their folly. Not in Rowling's realistic view. Her heroes repeatedly defy adults, break rules, and exemplify bold courage in the face of oppressive authority. The Potter heroes' "subversive" attitudes refute rigid right wing dogma. Their example - offering loyalty and respect only to those who earn them - prepares young readers to question authority and think for themselves.

[Chovexani]

7. That sums it up way better than I ever could

Especially the part about the subversiveness of the HP books.

That's given me a lot to chew on. :)

[outraged2]

8. there's more

I forgot to include the link where that came from... its a good article
http://www.opednews.com/hersh1103_harry_potter.htm


from the philosophy thread... more links: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=279x16#25