Just joined this group, does anyone else consider Vonnegut fantasy?

[Longgrain]

Does anyone else consider the writing of Kirk Vonnegut (Slaughter House Five; Breakfast of Champions) to be fantasy fiction or should I go over to the science fiction forums.

I would personally consider it fantasy, with a twist of Science fiction, but his characters and situations are so life like, and so unreal.

Maybe surrealist fiction would be a better term?

[Crunchy Frog]

1. I'm not really sure how I would classify Vonnegut.

He's sort of Science Fiction/Fantasy/Black Humor rolled together. I think he may be beyond classification, but I really love him. I guess you would have to ask the forum moderator whether this is the appropiate place to discuss his books.

I'm certainly game.:)

[Longgrain]

2. Something I've been thinking about.

Just how do we classify fantasy?

All fiction is fantasy in some way, I guess?

Is fantasy just about Magic and the Unreal? Or does it also include the hyper-real, delusional, and philoshical...

I'm not as familiar with Harry Potter, but I know a little bit about Tolkien--Similar in some ways to science-fiction--imaginative worlds where there are axioms and limitations as to what can be done and not be done, set forth by the fictitious powers-that-be --but still a world of order, not based on provable facts--yet, still bound to the rules set forth, and incorporated by the author's imagination.

Maybe this forum could be a good place to discuss/ debate the fine lines between fiction/ fantasy/ horror/ sci-fi/ and philosophy--and, of course, political concerns, in addition to speculative literature in general. A topic I'm very interested in, which is why I brought up Vonnegut.

Just my one two--hundredths of a dollar.

[Crunchy Frog]

3. You make some good points.

I don't think there is an absolutely clear dividing line. Some literature is very clearly one thing or another, while other literature kind of blurs the edges. I guess Vonnegut is one where the edges are kind of blurred.

Sci-fi I guess, tends to incorporate science obviously, often focusing on technology and laying out plausible future scenarios and possibilities. Also often has a very strong focus on space travel. The alternate worlds are generally other planets where the same basic sets of physical laws apply as in our own world.

Fantasy tends to take place on a whole other plane, often incorporating beings from various ancient mythological systems. It often tries to re-create a sort of idealized past world with the addition of magic and supernatural beings.

I would guess that Vonnegut is closer to sci-fi, but uses it more as a vehicle for satire and social commentary.

It's an interesting question and I'm pretty much just babbling right now.
:)

[Longgrain]

4. Me too...

Can't tell if I'm babbling too, or making a perfectly coherent point.

We at, least got the discussion/ debate rolling. :hi:

Should be interesting...

[Crunchy Frog]

5. I guess that's the nature of science fiction and fantasy

You can babble away and still look like you're making a coherent point.:evilgrin:

Well, it's a fun discussion anyway, whether coherent or not. :D

[Der Blaue Engel]

6. Kurt Vonnegut...

...is oftened defined as "magical realism," which I believe fits under the fantasy umbrella.

The lines between fantasy and science fiction are becoming increasingly blurred, which is why I prefer the term "speculative fiction," but I know a lot of science fiction devotees scoff at traditional fantasy and want to keep the genre "pure."

:eyes:

Just my two cents. Anyway, I love Vonnegut. :)

[robbedvoter]

7. That's why I brought up Marquez, Rushdie earlier. Magical realism

is my favorite genre - the one I dream to be fluent in some day (when I grow up)

[wryter2000]

8. I think he used to call his work science fiction

And he'd complain that editors treated the science fiction drawer like a urinal.

I don't care. I love him, at least his early books. FWIW, The Sirens of Titan is my favorite.

[Bridget Burke]

9. Remember Kilgore Trout?

It's been a while, but I believe the fictional science fiction writer appeared in several of Vonnegut's works. (Any resemblance to Theodore Sturgeon was not coincidental.) His amazing works were to be found in the back rooms of ratty used bookstores.

Vonnegut wanted to avoid the science fiction ghetto so his works were marketed as "mainstream" fiction. I once read that only two books by Philip K Dick actually had an editor--The Man In the High Castle & one other. Unlike certain overpaid egotists, Dick realized his work benefited from thoughtful editing; but science fiction was not allowed that level of respect. Things have improved a bit.

"Magic Realism" came out of Latin America to loosen up definitions in English language literature. Now, mainstream fiction is often more than the "realistic" depiction of life among alcoholic, adulterous Northeastern suburbanites--or inbred, alcoholic Southerners. And fantasy & science fiction are often published in hardback & reviewed with respect.

The best works of art are often difficult to categorize. Life is more interesting near the Border.

[Longgrain]

10. Interesting and Great reply...

Re: Kilgore Trout.

You probably already know this but...

Vonnegut freed all of his characters...

Trout was the only one whom Vonnegut informed...

Just something to think about ;) .