Air conditioning

[Chalco]

My house was built in 1935. No air conditioning. We have 2 window units but after we had to cut down the LARGE maple with southern exposure the house has been unbearable. So...my neighbor, the architect, recommended I look into the Unico system which puts small tubes through the walls and lots of air outlets in rooms. Anyway, the estimates ranged from 15 - 17,000 dollars. I decided it was too much.

I hate window air because it's so noisy. So I don't want to just add more of them.

I then discovered the ductless split air systems. So I wondererd about putting 4 of them in, 2 upstairs and down on one back side of the house and 2 upstairs and down on the front side of the house. Has anyone experience with this? From what I can tell the price would be a lot less primarily because the installation doesn't take as long. Unico installation took one week. Split air takes 1/2 a day. I like the split air option because it is quiet as well.

Any thoughts?

[LiberalEsto]

1. First thing I would do

is put more insulation in the attic and install a ridge vent. Also, think about an attic fan, and indoor ceiling fans.

[Chalco]

2. The attic is well insulated and vented. We don't have

ceiling fans, so that's a possibility. I've got 3 people coming over for estimates this week on central and split-air systems. From what I understand these companies don't like to put in the split-air systems because they get less out of it in the long run. There's no maintenance.

Anway, thanks for your suggestion.

[madmax]

3. Glad you asked this... I too would be interested to

learn more about this system. Same situation here with the old house and no c/a. We're using 3 window units and it's a pain in the butt to take them out, store, put them in again. I'm getting too old for this crap ;)

[Chalco]

4. The other good thing about all of these new systems--

ductless air, unico and split air is that they dont make very much noise.

[eleny]

5. I'm looking forward to what you learn

Our home is cinderblock construction - even the interior walls. And we have no crawl space. This winter, we left the air conditioners in the windows because it was so mild. But this new type system may be something we should keep in mind for down the road.

[Chalco]

6. Update.

Still don't have the new proposals. But I have more information.

Everyone (3 estimaters came out) recommends that because I have an attic and basement I should go with regular central air. They recommend putting a machine in the attic and wending "pipes" through the ceiling on the second floor and through closets on the second floor and then thru the first floor ceiling. The prices have been thrown out as somewhere between $7500 and $12000. Compared to $15000 - 17000 for the Unico high velosity that sounds great.

For regular central air there's now 2 systems. High energy efficient and environmentally friendly and the current system. The high efficient cost more than regular. I'll see when the proposals come in.

I asked each one what they felt and would recommend about the split-air or ductless systems. They all said that central air would be better because the air in the house would be uniform. With a ductless system the air would be uneven. (I have seen also through my research on the internet that HVAC dont like to put in the split-air system because they make less off of it.) They said that ductless systems are best in homes that don't have an attic because there's noplace to hide the equipment.

When I get the proposals I'll post again.

[murray hill farm]

7. I live in Mexico..and what we have here..

are called mini-splits...and i do not know if they are the same thing. The one i have is made by the company LG. They are great..and do function as central air does in the usa. The air conditioning unit..the noisy part..is on the roof, but could work well in an attic, if you have one. In the room inside, is the unit that hangs on the wall and puts out the cool air and they are very quiet. Depending on the size of your house, you could run several inside units off the one outside unit..or put more than one outside unit. The entire system cost us under $1200 here in Mexico..and they probably cost less in the usa. We have a very small, cement block house here and have just one unit.

[Chalco]

8. Yes, the mini split. I was wondering about that.

There one by Mitsubishi or Friedrich I think that has 3 inside wall things that hook up to one outside machine. I was wondering if that would work. We perhaps have a larger place than you, I don't know. It's 2 floors with each floor 20ft x 40 ft with an attic and a basement.

But these air conditioning guys keep discouraging me from going that route. Sometimes I wonder if they just want me to do the whole duct thing because then I have to hire them to do maintenance. And I don't think there's any maintenance with the mini-splits.

[murray hill farm]

9. Well..we love ours...and the only maintenance is...

that we do have in cleaned, etc. once a year. We do have some drip hoses..which u always have to do with any airconditioner. We have ours on the roof..which is a flat roof..but it is great because there is no noise at all in the house..our house is all one floor..and it is about 600 sq ft, but we only use the air in the bedrooms, but lots of folks have them here with much larger houses..and then just have more than one..which we have on the inside wall. If Mitsubishi makes one of these near you, you might want to talk to them for more info on your house. I will bet they have sales folks, etc. who can come out to your house and do an assessment. Good luck with it.

[Jersey Devil]

15. Check with your power company for rebates for high efficiency units

Up here in NJ the power companies offer rebates for those installing high efficiency AC units.

[arkie dem]

10. The multiple ductless split systems has it's advantages.

If one goes down you don't lose all your cooling capacity. The downside is the initial installation cost would be higher than a ducted central system.

As for maintenance filter changes, motor lubrication, and coil cleaning is all that is generally needed.

What about heat?

[Chalco]

11. I've got a gas furnace and steam radiator heat which I

really like. So we left that out of the equation.

[Chalco]

12. Actually in terms of installation costs, from what I understand and

I could be wrong, it takes much less time to install the ductless than the central air. But I'm still leaning toward central air. We'll see when the cost proposals come in!

[arkie dem]

13. Yes it does take less time to install one ductless split system.

When you times it by four your initial cost could be higher.

I install and service HVAC/R equipment. Most of the the units I install are ducted split systems. Depending on the structure, and local building codes duct labor and material costs can vary greatly.
Since you don't need a new heating system the ductless system looks to be the most logical way to go.

[arkie dem]

14. Forgot to add

If you decide on the ductless systems, make sure your electrical service can handle the extra load of four condensing units.

[Chalco]

16. Update. Proposals are in.

3 came in at $11,000 and one at 12,000. The difference between the other 3 is the brand used--Carrier, Lennox or Ruud.

Another difference was the Lennox guy included putting a return for dehumidification in the basement.

I'm torn between the Carrier guy and the Lennox guy. I assume I can negotiate and get the Carrier guy to add the basement return. I feel guilty rejecting either one. They were both nice. Carrier seemed more thorough during the visit, but then the Lennox guy was more detailed in the written proposal.

What to do, what to do? This stuff drives me nuts.

Any advice welcome.

[NMDemDist2]

17. such a huge investment isn't it?

i'd be on the web now, researching the companies and folks that have had trouble to see how they stand behind the product.

if all else seemed equal, I'd go with the company that is the "bluest" in political contributions

[arkie dem]

18. Go with the Carrier

When problems do occur Carrier parts are easier to obtain. That's my big gripe with Lennox and Trane availability of repair parts.

Ruud is good equipment same as Rheem.

[Chalco]

19. Thanks. I decided on Carrier.

We both liked the guy who came out. His written proposal was not as detailed as his verbal comments were which I asked him about. But, he said that he would be here when the workers are mapping our how to do the whole project and that it had to be to my satisfaction. I just hope this actually works and cools down the house. The main problem is the back 1/2 of the house which is cathedral ceiling. It's hard to get the duct stuff in there. Anyway...he said he's do multiple places where air can come out and a return for the hot air.

[arkie dem]

20. Good choice

If you went with the high effiency system that use 410A(Puron) it was probably a smart choice. The old refrigerant R22 will start being phased out next year.
I did hear Carrier had some problems with their evaporator coils leaking with the higher pressure 410A refrigerant. Hopefully they have fixed the problem.
Cathedral ceilings in existing structures can present a problem. Remodels are a challenge and always expect the unexpected.

[Chalco]

21. Yes, we did the Puron high efficiency.

I'm really worried about the cathedral ceilings. So we'll see. Thanks for your input.

[On the Road]

22. Thank You for Bringing Up the Issue

I was unaware of ductless split-air systems. They sound intriguing.

I have several small rentals, some with radiator heat. It may be a good option for those.