The laminate/backsplash detailer was here yesterday:

[babylonsister]

I had only wanted to backsplash behind the stove top and a corresponding strip on the other side of the kitchen because I didn't want the dark backsplash (slate) make the kitchen (which is a galley/shotgun style with the door out leading to the garage) look any darker, especially with the dark appliances.
Well, I got talked out of that because of all the seams that would have to be made. So now it's backsplash all the way around.:scared:

As for the laminate, I was informed all cabinets need to be emptied as they have to replace all the plywood underneath, which I didn't know was necessary. Is this normal? I don't mind emptying cabinets, and was told that there'd be too much old, lumpy glue on the old stuff to try to use what's existing.
This does make sense to me as the old stuff is circa 1976ish, but I just would like to know that I'm not getting ripped off.
Thanks for any insight!

[NMDemDist2]

1. my guy just had me throw towels over everything, but if I'da known

i woulda emptied them. It makes a mess

plywood underneath? underneath what? i didn't have any plywood, the counter top underside was the only cover on my lower cabinets :shrug:

[babylonsister]

2. Plywood underneath the existing laminate on my countertops

that the laminate was glued to, I think. :shrug:
I also wonder what they do about the old laminate creeping up the walls; what, are they going to replace the walls?
Obviously, I don't have a clue how this process works!

[NMDemDist2]

3. are you getting all new countertops or just laminate?

i'd suggest new countertops not new laminate and the wall will be scarred if it's not the same style as the old ones so plan on painting

[babylonsister]

4. I will be ordering all new laminate, but was told they HAVE to

replace all the plywood underneath it, so I guess I'm getting new countertops? This is my question; is this normal?
The guy told me if they just peeled the old stuff off, the surface would be too bumpy, so they have to replace the stuff the laminate sticks to.

And I don't understand what you mean by new countertops/not new laminate. I want the yellow shit gone and can't afford the stone stuff! Laminate is long lasting and good enough for this household.
I guess the walls won't be an issue as the slate will be covering the vertical places.

A joyful experience is turning into one that's not so much!

[NMDemDist2]

5. ok, most laminate come attached to thick pre moulded countertops

often with the back splash already on there so there are no seams

the old plywood would probably be worthless after all the sanding it would take to prep it for new glue (so your guy is correct) also it would make a HUGE mess and be very time consuming for your installer which =$$$$ for you

did you price all new countertops with the laminate already on it? it would probably be cheaper and faster in the long run AND be more durable

i did my largish U shaped kitchen in PHX for less than $700

[babylonsister]

6. I didn't even know "all new countertops with the laminate already on it"

existed. And no one thought it necessary to share that with me. I was told they will be bringing all the materials in here and build it as they go.
I haven't paid for anything yet, so I can still ask if this is an option for me. That price sounds a lot better than what I'm thinking we'll be charged. And we think our kitchen is small in the scheme of things, though I imagine the final price won't reflect our thinking.

Here's a pic to give you an idea (and darn, I STILL need to paint that door!:rofl:) :

[NMDemDist2]

7. OK that helps

call a place that does commercial as well as residental, they love 'little' jobs to fill in and get better prices usually

they will give you several options on edges and go with the moulded backspash would be my suggestion

now since you want a 'designer' style that mimics granite you may need to wait a bit to get it in but most big countertop guys have at least one dark granite style in stock since it's the 'hot' color right now

as for those cabinets, hit em with some Old English and buy new hardware and you'll be amazed!

edit to add, I'm off to town for my AA meeting and grocery shopping but I'll check back this afternoon. maybe we can chat on the phone later eh?

[babylonsister]

8. Hold on there, missy. I've already decided on what I want-are you

redesigning my kitchen, filling my head with evil alternative ideas? :spank:

I want the slate I saw in the store, and the laminate, and this contractor (hired through Lowe's) does both. I imagine in the long run using Lowe's as a middleman will cost more, but I wasn't up to coordinating 3 different contractors and just want to get it done. Plus, I didn't have a clue on how to go about getting this done.

As for edges, we discussed that and will probably keep the basic kind we have unless the price difference isn't too exhorbitant. This contractor specializes in beveled corners, and I will be getting price quotes with and without.

My main question was about those countertops that need replacing, and whether that's standard.

I'll get some Old English, but that hardware is relatively new; you should have seen what WAS up there! Plus, because of all those cabinets, it's very pricy to replace all that hardware.

Thanks for your input, NMDemDist(still 6?)! :hi:

[babylonsister]

11. Lowe's called w/the price quote for the laminate:

it's $120 more than we discussed, and I forgot this little bit of a counter that also has to be laminated:


Still no price on the backsplash, but I have an appointment Friday.
I did bring up the pre-fab stuff, and they don't install that, so that's out.
I also brought up the potential water damage, and she told me she's sold lots of the laminate/backsplash combos and never had a complaint. She claims they are both only as good as the glue that puts them vertical/horizontal.
I think I'm going for it. Will let you know, and thanks for your advice, NMDD6!

And that microwave will be gone! And I have your number!

:evilgrin: :bounce:

[NMDemDist2]

12. actually with the breakfast bar that's probably OK huh?

just watch them and make sure they get a really good bead of sealer along the sink area

:hi:

[babylonsister]

13. Yes, I guess/hope it's okay. And I just remembered:

the prefab lam, with the ____board? (Can't remember the name). They are installing plywood, which wouldn't react as poorly should it get wet (something to be avoided regardless, but it's a point).

[I_Make_Mistakes]

16. AZ Did you do the counter top yourself? The reason that I asked

was that after I saw your post on the flashing back splash, I loved it and purchased the flashing to do it because the kitchen is windowless and the farthest room from the slider and this will reflect the light and make it brighter. I was was concerned about the exterior edge where the wall joins the Dining room, and the seams occurring where he oven meets the black splash, so I came up with using fancy upholstery nails to give it an upholstered, finished look.

The nails look like http://item.express.ebay.com/AD-3536-DULL-FINISH-NAIL-5-16-Pkg-50-DISCOUNTS_W0QQitemZ8271899766QQihZ020QQcmdZExpressItem

I started thinking about replacing the counter top as well, and Lowe's has this laminate counter top Belanger, and they have installation instructions (in their How To Replace laminate counter tops tab)that said that most laminates can be installed over existing laminates (after a thorough cleaning and sanding of the surface). It looks pretty easy, once the sink has been removed (which seems to me the hardest part).

The weird thing is, Lowe's must be updating their site, because earlier there were at least 6 color choices and they had the miter joint and finishing strips and now they just have the one color and no miter joint or finishing strips.

[NMDemDist2]

17. no, I had it done but if we'd had more time we would have attempted it

good luck! :hi:

[I_Make_Mistakes]

18. You go girl! You are the CAN DO type, I follow your leadership!

I am a little hesitant because I have a U-shape sink area and that adds a significant level of complication. I went to the Home Depot site and they had a measurement area that showed how to measure the beveled, IRRC, area measurements. I not only have to do a beveled corner, but then add a little triangle area to the sink front.

Thanks for your encouragement and enthusiasm, it motivates me. Also, I found the search issue at Lowes, if you search counter tops you get 1 page, if you search Belanger (mfg. name) you get alot more.

Do you think Babyloniansister, would be up for self installment? I could point to the info. that I have ascertained, if not, not a big deal.

[NMDemDist2]

19. when I talked to babylonsis, she was pretty adamant that they weren't

'handy'

:rofl:

[I_Make_Mistakes]

20. I would have said that also(not handy), before DU DIY, gave me

the confidence to install a toilet (in a 2nd floor condo, possibly impacting the first floor owner (which is additional stress!).

After that, I replaced the Lauann, first time I ever used a circular saw (to cut the toilet drain area), the flooring and the toilet. You guys, gave me that confidence and damn, I go for it too, with some reserve, because I could impact another, the first floor. It is one thing if your toilet leaks and you are impacted, it's another if you cause a leak that screws someone else!

[NMDemDist2]

22. it's amazing what you can accomplish if you are willing to just give it a shot

watching all that HGTV gave me confidence to try and I've had great results with everything we've tried

Gardening is my new task, we'll see how it goes.....

:scared:

[Warpy]

14. OK, gotcha

There are two types of laminate counter installation.

One uses a plywood or particle board substrate, a smooth surface to glue the sheet laminate to. This sounds like what you have. What they have to do to change the counters is remove the substrate along with the laminate glued to it. The glue is contact cement, and there is very little you can do to break the bond without poisoning yourself with some really nasty solvents. A new substrate isn't all that expensive, and no, you're not getting ripped off.

The other uses a prefab countertop and backsplash. Measurements are taken, and the countertop is fabricated at the shop. They come in, take out the sink and whatever, knock the old countertop off the cabinets, plop the new one on, screw it down, and reinstall whatever they had to remove.

I'm not sure about the price comparison between the two. The first requires custom work like building the new substrate and then using a laminate router to trim the new countertops and edge seams, so I'd expect it to be more expensive. The second gives you little control over the size of the backsplash, although there is a choice in edge finishes.

[babylonsister]

15. Thanks, Warpy. Your posts convinced me to stick with laminate.

And I can see how durable it is from what I have.
We ordered custom laminate installation vs. prefab, so we're getting plywood substrate. We're foregoing a finished edge because it's expensive (for a normal sized, if not smaller than normal, they wanted over $600 for beveled edges). It'll wind up looking like what I have now; no big deal for me.
Still haven't got a quote on the slate installation. Might get that today as I have an appt this a.m..:scared:

[wildeyed]

9. We have peeled off old laminate and replaced it ourselves.

But only because the counter top was a non-standard size and it would have cost a fortune to order it custom. I think it is pretty standard to replace the plywood and the laminate together on standard size jobs.

Good luck and post pics when you are done :hi:

[babylonsister]

10. That's what I was wondering, so thank you for your input.

And post pics I will whenever they get done.:hi:

[I_Make_Mistakes]

21. have you already committed to the installment? If yes, don't read

I started with your thread on the back splash and then followed here, and like u are now looking into replacing the counter tops (prior to the back splash).


I have not followed up with the store yet, (I like to research as much as possible on-line before getting down to the nitty gritty at the store (or it will take several trips back to the store)).

So far, I think that it maybe possible for you to do most of the work, if not all, yourself!

Here is the Lowes documentation:

Lowes has the pre-fab back splashes (here is the link)

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productList&N=0&Ntk=i_products&Ntt=belanger

The installation directions for replacing laminate counters is here

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=howTo&p=Improve/ReplaceLaminateCountertop.html&rn=RightNavFiles/rightNavHowTo

It seems pretty straight forward (if this pre fab, can be used), you can basically cut with a utility knife and then just glue very carefully.

[babylonsister]

23. Way too late, but thanks!

I am having Lowe's do the custom installation as neither of us are DIYers. The quote actually wasn't too bad (I had a conversation with AZDD6, who helped me out there) and they'll be building in new pine bases to glue the laminate to.
The labor on the backsplash seemed very high (we selected slate) but it's a done deal as far as being ordered. They're supposed to start the work end of this week/start of next.

Good luck with your spring project. If I knew then what I know now, I might have approached it differently, or decided to paint in areas instead of backsplash all around, but it is too late.
Good for you for thinking it through!

We need pics when you're through; I'll post some eventually, too (unless I hate the finished product :hide: ).

[babylonsister]

24. Update: work has started and, with any luck, will be done

by tomorrow night. Fingers crossed that we like it! Pics forthcoming...

[NMDemDist2]

25. woohoo!

:bounce:

[babylonsister]

26. Ahhh, the smell of glue in the morning!

I'm anxious, I must say. But using those new appliances should calm me, if nothing else does. There are NO do-overs allowed!

[NMDemDist2]

27. it will be gorgeous sis! you'll be so pleased I know

can't wait for the pics :woohoo:

[babylonsister]

28. Thanks for the encouragement, NMDD6!

:pals:

[babylonsister]

29. OK, here's a taste of the new kitchen. We have cabinet doors to

modify, I need to paint the door to the garage, apply another coat of sealer, but these are my new appliances, backsplash and laminate. We're really pleased with the results! I'll get more pics up when the touch-ups are done. Best part? No More YELLOW! :woohoo: :woohoo:

[NMDemDist2]

30. gorgeous

just wow :wow:

more pics please, I esp want to see the breakfast bar area and how they did that :bounce:

[babylonsister]

33. I will ASAP. Did it turn out the way I explained it, ya think?

I have to seal, paint, at least clean up the cabinets; bought some Old English (your suggestion?) and will give them a go. Of course, now I want new cabinets but I don't see that in my near future.
All in all, I'm a happy camper.:party:

[Longhorn]

31. I love that tile!

Everything goes really well together. I'd love to see more pics, too! Thanks for sharing!

[babylonsister]

32. You're welcome and thanks-I love the tile! It fits right into this eclectic

house!
Once I get all my little projects done, I'll post some more angles.

[babylonsister]

34. Final here; work done, door is now white (and wet), and no more yellow!

Edit to add: the old pics are upthread.



Here's the little breakfast area that we never use:

[NMDemDist2]

35. how nice how they framed out the window sill too

it's beautiful sis, aren't you happy??

:bounce:

[babylonsister]

36. Thank you, sweetie. I'm very happy; it's a nice change, and the

appliances are great! I'm also glad it's over! :crazy:
I'll take one more pic when I have a door knob reattached so I can get the whole, long room.

[NMDemDist2]

37. i went Dishwasher shopping today

:banghead:

I don't want to spend a fortune for a water using appliance with the hard ass stuff that comes out of the faucets around here (even after the water softener)

Sears is my next stop tomorrow....

this danged little town, the big furniture store runs an ad with a Maytag on sale and they didn't even have one in stock to look at :eyes:

the joys of living in a small town.... :rofl:

[babylonsister]

38. I have a dishwasher and I VERY RARELY use it with just the two of

us here. Could be why my hands are a mess, or would that be from winter and gardening? :think:
Once in awhile I'll throw a load through with greasy tupperware, and the coffeepot, but unless we have company, that's about it. But I did get a new garbage disposal, something I haven't had in 15 years. While the plumber was here, I told him to go for it. I still haven't used it :rofl: but my sister convinced me it'd be a good idea for resale value, when and if that should ever happen.

Sounds like you have a roadtrip in your future! :P

[NMDemDist2]

39. nah, between Sutherlands and Sears I'll find something

it would have to be a heck of a deal to justify spending $80 in gas and a whole day to go to El Paso. Hell even to Lubbock.....


:evilgrin: