Help! My basement is bulging! X-Post from lounge. *PIX*

[grace0418]

Okay, so we live in a duplex condo (first and ground floor) and we are getting ready to redo the lower level. It's halfway below grade and finished but we don't love the carpet and we want to change a few other things.

Last week we had a flooring guy come out to give us an estimate on some different flooring options. As I was moving some stuff around so he could get in and measure accurately, I noticed something odd in the corner.

Our floor that has looked like this for the last 8 years:




Now looked like this:




We had no clue what to make of it but the flooring guy was on his way so we thought we'd ask him. When he got there, he pulled up the carpeting to reveal this:



The concrete was weirdly bulging and flaking. It sounded almost hollow and appeared somewhat moist (not wet, just slightly damp). He suspected that perhaps our landscapers were leaving the sprinklers running too close to our building and our downstairs window (there is a window directly above the area in the drawing) and something was leaking in. All I know is we've had some very heavy rains over the years and not once has our lower level had a drop of water. Even when every other basement in the area flooded.

So we called our management company and insurance to determine our next step. Since our building insurance covers anything outside our walls and our condo insurance covers the inside, we wanted to make sure that we proceeded correctly. Our management company hired a reputable waterproofing company to come take a look. He came out today and told us he has no idea what it is. He said he's been in the business for 20 years and that this had him scratching his head. He said it's not a waterproofing issue, or a tree root. The only thing he could recommend was to chip away at the lump and see what's underneath. Naturally, I'm concerned that we start chipping away at this lump and suddenly raw sewage starts spraying through a crack or something.

Has anyone seen anything like this? Does anyone have any suggestions who we might call to take a look at this, if a waterproofing company isn't the right place? We are at a total loss.

Thank you in advance for any suggestions.

[eleny]

1. About the raw sewage concern

If the concrete has been absorbing liquid and it was raw sewage, it might have an odor by now. Just a thought.

[grace0418]

4. Good point. No particular odor, thank goodness.

I just don't want to risk it. Even if it's just a water leak I don't want it getting all over. Some things I really prefer to leave to the pros. But anyway, thanks, you've put my mind at ease a bit. :hi:

[Longhorn]

2. From your description and drawings, my husband thinks it's

floor leveling compound. Concrete won't do that. He said the leveling compound probably separated from the concrete below and got pushed into the corner as furniture was moved, etc. Moisture could have caused the compound to separate from the slab and pile up in the corner. It is not designed to get wet.

He thinks you should call a contractor who may need to waterproof or put in a French drain.

Nice drawings! :hi:

[grace0418]

3. Thanks Longhorn! I will ask about that.

I do know the flooring guy was not impressed with our floors and how they were done. It's an old building (1925) that was gutted in 1998/9. And even though many things were really half-assed about the rehab, we've always been very impressed with the lower level because most of these old Chicago buildings are horrible with flooding. We've had some crazy heavy rains in the last 8 years and haven't had any problems at all. But anyway, he said the concrete looked really thin, but maybe it's actually the leveling compound of which you speak.

I will bring all of this up with whomever we find to fix it.

And thanks for the compliment. I'm a graphic designer so I know art but I don't know much about concrete, unfortunately.

[Kingshakabobo]

5. I'm near Wrigley Field hear.....

Somehow, I knew you would be a Chicago resident when you said duplex-down condo. You are lucky to have no water in the basement. I know a few people that got flooded out in that last big rain...

Self leveling flooring seems a good guess. I spent several years in the concrete business and never heard of concrete acting like that. I would chip/bust it out to see what was under it.

We get a lot of deterioration of the stone walls in our basement storage areas. I'm constantly sweeping up piles of grout and flakes from the walls - that doesn't SOUND like your problem though. God only knows what is going on behind OUR duplex unit's drywall.....knock on wood! no flooding problems.

On a related note...shouldn't this be an association problem? It seems to me, the concrete floor and foundation should be the association problem when it comes to check writing time.

Good luck!

[grace0418]

6. I think it's going to be a bit sticky because it depends on the root cause of the

problem. If the problem occurs only in our unit it may be our problem. I'd love for it to be the association's problem of course, but we'll just have to see. I'd also love to get some new carpet out of it because we were planning to change it anyway.

Yeah, there have been a few heavy storms this summer, but no, we've been fine. Do you remember that storm about 5 or 6 summers ago where it rained some insane amount right during the morning rush hour? I remember going to work and being sure our stuff downstairs was going to be floating. I had a friend who lived a couple of blocks away and worked at home, and I asked her to walk over and check on our place and tell me whether I needed to come home and deal with the flood waters. It was fine, our lower level was bone dry. But she told me later that she decided to wear cut-off shorts and flip flops because she knew she was going to get soaked. As she crossed the street the water was so high it actually got her (cut-off!) shorts wet and she lost a flip flop! I felt so bad about that later. She couldve been swept away!

Anyway, thanks for the advice. I will keep everyone posted. :hi:

[youthere]

7. Is it possible there is a water line that is broken?

Even if it is a small ongoing leak it could damage the concrete and make it heave like that. You may want to call a licensed plumber and have them come take a look. If they can't help you call a foundation expert. I wouldn't touch it until someone can definitively tell you what it is.

Awesome drawings BTW.

[grace0418]

9. I just saw this. Thanks for the compliment!

Anyway, the home inspector thinks the same as you. We are having a plumber come out on Friday, but he really seemed reluctant to get involved. Nobody wants to deal with this thing and we're getting so frustrated. Hopefully the plumber will figure it out.

*fingers crossed*

[Kali]

8. ever figure this out?

[grace0418]

10. Well, as you now know we still haven't figured this out. But I will post

an update on Friday after the plumber looks at it. Keep your fingers crossed.

[grace0418]

11. A A A A R R R R R G G G G G G H H H H H H!

So the plumber just left. Guess how that went?

Yep. ANOTHER repairperson unwilling to help in any way. The flooring guy says it's a seepage issue, most likely. The foundation guy doesn't offer any advice other than to say it's not a seepage issue. The home inspector says to call a plumber. The plumber says it's not a plumbing issue but most likely a seepage issue.

What. The. Fuck.

I haven't been able to use my downstairs room in over a month. That includes getting into my closet. I am so sick of this I could just scream.

[NMDemDist2]

12. desperate times call for desperate measures

I'd be to the point of taking a pick ax to it and starting to dig into in until you found the problem.

either way you will be fixing the concrete at some point, might as well start digging....

[grace0418]

13. Yes but as the home inspector pointed out, if we start picking at it and something

starts seeping/oozing/spraying out of it, then we have to call an emergency plumber and hope to maude he'll come out and deal with it. Condsidering all the wonderful "help" we've gotten so far, I don't like my chances.

I want a professional to do the picking so if anything happens the professional is already there to deal with it.

[Warpy]

14. Smart idea. If you try to fix it now, all I can say is

water always wins. You'll have to fix it again.

In the meantime, get a map of where the water lines are around the place. If the condo association doesn't have plans, city hall should. Once you know where exterior lines are and if there is anything in that area that could possibly have a slow leak, you'll be prepared to call the plumber and tell him you expect a doppler check for leaks.

If there are no pipes in the area, then your problem is seepage and you can deal with that accordingly.

Your problem now is that nobody knows where the water is coming from and wants the other guy to deal with it. Nailing down whether or it's plumbing or seepage from outside will tell you whose lap to dump it into.