Need Help Please (bathtub drain)

[Coyote_Bandit]

The tub drains VERY slowly and I want to remove the stopper and snake it. The Draino just isn't working anymore. I've done this before in other places I've lived. No big deal. Just a little messy and smelly.

But I cannot get the frickin bathtub stopper out. I have spent hours trying to get this thing out. And I've Googled for information. Thought perhaps someone here at DU might have a suggestion.

Before I go any further I should probably mention that I have removed the overflow and am reasonably certain that the clog is in the horizontal area and will need to be accessed through the stopper to be removed.

The previous homeowner put a tub liner in the tub and installed a Watco push pull drain. Push and it holds water. Pull and it releases water. No twisting necessary. The stopper has a little mushroom knob on the top. This little mushroom knob unscrews. And leaves the stopper intact. I've tried closing the stopper and turning it counterclockwise in an effort to remove it. Didn't work. I've tried turning the stopper counterclockwise while open in an effort to remove it. Didn't work. I've tried pulling the stopper up while turning it counterclockwise in an effort to remove it. Didn't work. There is no set screw under the stopper. Not one that I can feel or see with a mirror and flashlight. After the little mushroom knob is removed a square tube is visible. It is probably between 2 to 3 inches deep. I've inserted a variety of screwdrivers into this square tube but cannot find a slot or screw to unscrew. I've also tried four sets of hex keys and allen wrenches hoping that one of them would turn the tube to remove the stopper. No luck.

What's the deal? Why is this so frickin difficult? Seems that this kind of thing is normal home maintanence that should be accomplished with a reasonable amount of effort. I really can't afford to call a plumber right now - and I don't think I should have to. Especially since I will probably need to do this again at some point in the future.

Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

[Stinky The Clown]

1. I am only guessing here (can't picture your situation), but try ....

.... unscrewing the threaded shaft to which the mushroom knob attaches. It could be attached to a threaded hole in the bottom of the drain fitting.

Another possible way forward ..... go to a hardware or plumbing supplys tore and look at the drains. You may find one just like yours, uninstalled and naked.

[Coyote_Bandit]

2. Ummmm

The top looks like this:



The little mushroom knob on top threads into the larger stopper below - so when it is removed there isn't a shaft to be unscrewed. There is a square shaped tube. That tube sits inside the larger stopper. There is maybe an eighth of an inch between the rubber gasket below the stopper and the rim of the drain on the floor of the tub - barely enough to get a pair of needle nose pliers. Not enough to get much of a grip. And the stopper itself does not seem to unscrew anything.

Yes, I'm planning on hitting the hardware stores soon.

There is no good reason why this should be so obscure and difficult.

Thanks.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

3. I t should unscrew ,but

There is a product called hair clog remover ,it is designed for tubs,showers and bathroom sinks. Buy a large bottle and dump i/4 of it down the overflow , than pop the stopper up and pours 1/4 of the bottle down the tub drain. Than run a little water down the tub drain to send the excess into the drain. Let the stuff set for ten minutes than run hot water down the drain. Lots of hot water. After that dump a little more in and repeat the process. Than pick up a bottle of drain care ,pre mix ,and treat the pipes.The stuff really works. And WD40 helps too,!. but Hair Clog Remover is far less of a hassle!Home depot Hair clog Remover red bottle, and Drain Care Green pre mix solution. Same company makes both products.

[Coyote_Bandit]

4. Makes sense that it ***SHOULD*** unscrew

but it doesn't.

I've screwed that stopper every which way. A zillion times. It just spins. Forward. Backward. Whatever. Does not tighten or loosen. Just spins.

The square tube cannot be gripped with either pliers or a wrench - either above the stopper or below the gasket. There is not enough tubing above the stopper to get a grip and the space between the gasket and the tub ring is probably only an eighth of an inch or so. Again, very difficult to grip even with needle nose pliers. Hex keys do not seem to fit and I can't locate a screwdriver slot. Or a set screw.

I'm not sure if the metal is brass or brass finish. Eiher way I am somewhat wary of discoloring it with chemicals. And the ones I have used to date have not been particularly effective. An entire bottle of Draino or Liquid Plumber or any of the other chemical clog removers I've tried will get me about two or three showers before the damn thing is once again clogged.

Whatever is in there needs to be removed. The previous homeowner had several children and this has been an issue since I purchased the home although admittedly it has become increasingly severe. I would not be surprised to find that the clog contains more than just hair.

The pipes cannot be plunged without removing the stopper. Plunging simply closes the drain otherwise.

This is the most poorly designed bathtub drain I have ever seen. Not surprisingly, the manufacturer does not have a website.

Apparently the problem is not at all unique to me. At least that is what my Google search results suggest. Unfortunately, the solutions suggested are conflicting or unclear or have failed to solve my problem. Or they are applicable to other models of Watco drains.

If I can ever remove this POS drain stopper I am inclined to replace it with a plain old ugly plastic tub stopper. It would be a definite improvement in functionality.

I am very tempted to take the Dremel to the damn thing to see if I can just cut the POS out and remove it that way.

This is ridiculous. This is a routine maintanence chore - something most homeowners should be able to accomplish with a minimum of effort and epertise in fairly short order. I've been able to successfully remove the stopper and clean the bathtub drain in the last five places I've lived. No problem until I encounter this POS drain. This should not require a $100n plus call to a plumber.


:grr: :grr: :nuke:



Thanks for your suggestions. I don't mean to take my frustration out on you but I am nearly at my wits end with this thing. Sorry.

[Stinky The Clown]

5. Is this your drain?

Go to this link. This may be what you have: http://www.upt.com/CAD/610ARB.pdf

But I think, really, this is it:



And this is the key for you ..... a set screw!



Edit to Add:

Be VERY careful as you loosen that set screw. If it comes out and drops down the drain you could be .... well .... screwed! :)

Find the screw slot (probably the hardest part of removal) and put your screwdriver in it. Now put a very slight upward pressure on the stopper and start to unscrew the set screw **very carefully**. Modulate the upward pressure a little. The idea is to sense when the screw has been backed out the minimum needed to clear the nipple's groove and allow the stopper to be removed.

Once removed, the drain will look like most any other one. You might be best to remove and replace it. A dumbell wrench will help with this.



Use an adjustable wrench on the stem of the dumbell wrench to get the torque you need.

Another word of caution. There *may* be a rubber washer between the **under**side of your tub and the drain body. It can be replaced through the tub's drain hole, but it might be best to remove the drain body carefully so as not to disturb it in the first place. There is another rubber washer between the drain body flange and the *top* surface of the tub - actually, either a rubber washer or plumber's putty. This is expendable and will come off with the drain.

Good luck.

[Coyote_Bandit]

6. I've used a combination of

flood light and flashlight with a regular mirror, a dental mirror and a magnifying mirror looking for a set screw under the stopper. I can't see one. I can't feel one.

My drain does not look like the chrome picture in your post.

The stopper has a little knob mush like that pictured in your post where the set screw and nipple are labelled. The knob unscrews from the stopper below. What you see after you remove the knob is a mostly square tube that, from above, looks very similar to what you have pictured above.

Thanks for the follow up. This has now become a personal challenge rather than just a huge frustration. Seems that the longtime mom and pop hardware store that specializes in helping folks with pesky problems is keeping reduced hours for the holiday weekend.

I have not been using a dumbell wrench. Didn't know there was such a thing. A quick Google search suggests that it just might fit that square tube and be able to grip it enough to loosen and remove the stopper. Tomorrow I will venture out to find one and try that.

Thanks again.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

7. Look here

Hair Clog Remover , I don't care if you put is down the drain with a syringe. I am a contractor and , you can take your dremmel with a metal cutting bit and notch the drain than take a screw driver and hammer than tap it out. Simply buy replacement.

But if you buy the two products I said to buy, Hair Clog Remover red bottle-Home Depot ,and Drain Care ,green pre mix . the green pre mix breaks down the hard deposits in those pipes.That is at the root of the hair clogs.That is why you suspect something more. The procedure takes about three days.

DRAINO DOES NOT WORK ON HAIR CLOGS ,neither does liquid plummer.

The hair clogged in your drain traps the damn Draino.
That's why plumbers hate Draino.

OK, so put some protective tape around the drain and dump the hair clog remover down the pipes. Dump it down the over flow valve too! After that treat the pipes with drain care, It breaks down all the hard deposits in the drain line. Read the directions.
Hair Clog Remover and Drain Care same company manufatures both products.

Draino and Liquid Plummer are super market products! Go to home depot !
For me Friend ,it's a pain in my ass if I have to go out into my truck and pull out the snake. And it's not uncommon for me to run into a fifty year old bathtub,if you know what I mean !

[Whoa_Nelly]

8. boiling hot water poured down drain

teakettle works well


http://www.wikihow.com/Unclog-a-Bathtub-Drain

http://www.ehow.com/how_2193227_unclog-bathtub-drain.html

http://www.onlinetips.org/bathtub-drains-clearing

[trotsky]

9. I second this. Also use a plunger.

Yes, a plunger. Seals much better around a tub drain than a toilet, and you can really get some back-and-forth fluid motion to dislodge stuff.

[Coyote_Bandit]

10. Ummmm

If the tub has a push pull stopper and the damn stopper cannot be removed then the only thing plunging accomplishes is to SEAL the bathtub. There is no back and forth fluid motion to dislodge the stuff inb the pipes below that seal. I agree this works well if one can remove the damn stopper. Unfortunately the one in my tub seems to be the worst possible design.

Now that the long labor day weekend is over I am venturing out to the hardware/plumbing stores in search of some solution.

[trotsky]

11. Oh I was assuming the stopper had a "lock open" position.

Yeah that does sound like a bugger.

[Coyote_Bandit]

12. OK

I still have not been able to find a way to remove the stopper. Nor have I been able to find anyone with the same particular model to suggest how it should be removed. I've seen lots of similar but different models at the local hardware and plumbing supply places.

Several kind folks - including the DUers here - have offered many different suggestions.

Unfortunately, I have still been unable to remove the damned stopper. It really seems to me that it should either unscrew or have a set screw. But it does not unscrew and I cannot locate a set screw.

In the meantime I am doing all the chemical treatments suggested earlier in this thread. Drainage is marginally improved after treating with the Hair Clog Remover. I have not yet completed the 3 day Drain Care treatment. I may actually repeat this chemical treatment cycle a few times.

Wonder what would happen if I filled the tub half way full or so with hot water, left the stopper open and plunged the overflow while the tub drained. Thughts?

Whoever thought that removing a bath tub stopper would be such a seemingly impossible ordeal? Not me.

Thanks for all your contributions and suggestions.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

13. The drain care will get it.

And keep a big bottle of that hair clog remover in your bath cabinet. Also the you mix it drain care does about forty treatments. I mix that stuff in a five gallon bucket of hot water .

Try using that hair clog remover once a week for about a month. You say it's a reoccurring problem, the pipes need cleaning out. And you got the right stuff to do it.

Nobody likes to run a snake down a bath tub because the snake scratches the tub. Also, that turn the 90 fallowed by how ever it's plumbed into the drain system, it's real hard to get the snake in to the straight line. The snake flops around and scratches the tub.

What I can tell you about that drain care product is that it does what it says it does. Just like the picture shows you on the bottle.

Stay with it and you will solve the problem.
Good luck.

[dweller]

14. any chance those threads are

reversed threads? clockwise to remove?

just a thought, tho don't know why they would use reverse threads...but you never know. :shrug:
dp

edit, rereading i see you've turned it everywhichway. oh well... crowbar time. :D

[Coyote_Bandit]

15. UPDATE

OK, so I've been putting chemical stuff (the red bottle hair clog remover) down this drain in order to be able to use the bathtub. Probably about once every week to two weeks or so (usually after bathing one of the dogs). Last time I used the hair clog remover I noticed that the seal is now starting to dissolve. Yes, the tub was EMPTY and appeared to have drained when I used the chemicals. I'm sure this deterioration is due to the repeated and fairly frequent use of caustic chemicals to clean out the drain as opposed to doing so mechanically - something that should be a routine maintenance issue. Those chemicals sure are an easy fix though.

Although I am not certain these specifications are for my particular drain. I've found specifications at the following link:
http://www.watcomfg.com/WATCO/PDFMainFrame.html

I've also phoned the manufacturer to inquire as to how to remove this damned stopper. Seems they get lots of calls regarding this matter (no surprise here). They advised removing the small metal knob (item 1 in the diagram) and then pushing the drain closed. They said a pin would appear at that time. When I advised that was not the case, they then advised that I could remove the stopper by unscrewing the tube that protruded from the top (apparently item 2 friction ring in the diagram).

So, the top of the bathtub stopper now has the little knob removed and is closed and taped off to avoid marring. Can't get the tube to budge at all when I try to unscrew it. I guess I will keep on working on that for awhile.I've only got about an eighth of an inch or so that I can grip in the pliers when trying trying to unscrew the tube - aAnd either it isn't made to move or it is badly stuck.

Maybe I should have just taken the dremel to this POS bathtub drain and cut the sucker out back in August. One thing is for sure, if I end up having to call a plumber it will be to remove this POS - not to repair it.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

16. WD 40

If you go dremel get a roto zip metal cutting bit ,comes in pack of five,about $7.00. Those bits fit the dremal. Notch the drain on two sides. You can take a chisel or old flat head screw driver and hammer ,than tap it out. Carefully. Unless you have excess to the plumbing underneath the tub. From what you wrote it seems to me the drain is a iffy product. I have only installed about four of that type, personally I don't trust those, never did. And you did not mention the dog part.Try using vice grips ,lock them on and see if you can free it loose after you spray it up with wd40.

If that don't work ,remove the piece of crap. Remember, you got a round gasket under the tub, that must be aligned when you replace the drain.

And if it's a apartment, you might just alert your landlord.
Those drains are junk.Although we have one in the jet bath, and the top does unscrew. Still, those drains are junk.And, you can call a handyman for that small of a problem, if you can find one that has time. It's a simple fix, if you have the stick to it,ness. A plumber would laugh at how much he or she has to charge you for that ! I once changed four faucets and aligned some kitchen cabinet doors ,replaced some plugs and installed a phone line for a senior citizen in a wealthy neighborhood, was there the better part of the day, charged ger $200.plus the cost of materials , she almost fell over in her chair, I asked if that seemed a bit to high?She said, no, I expected it to be much higher. She had a plumber over to fix the shower head in her master bath, the plumber unscrewed the shower head ,removed the screens, rinsed the screens off and replaced those screens/reinserted ,than reinstalled the shower head. total time, 3.2 minutes. Total charge, $95.00. It took longer to write the check.That was years ago when I was getting it all started.

So, you were using the hair clog remover to bath your dog? that's got to be the best one I've seen or heard. It's not the dog, it's the drain ! Good luck. And if you manage to get that drain completely out, that would be the perfect time to treat those pipes with drain care.On the other hand, I don't know the plumbing configuration in your house. But I can tell you, no plumber will run a snake down through a bath tub drain.

The hair clog remover idea was to clear out the hair clogs so that the drain care can clean out the hard built up deposits. I assumed you were going to tape up all critical areas, the chrome,the gasket ,so on. The dog?

[Kolesar]

17. I found this product called PB Blaster that is better than WD40

Your writing about hair clog remover was surely insightful! :hi:

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

18. Thanks, I'll

keep an eye out for PB blaster. I am always interested in new products.