Plumbing Question

[Coyote_Bandit]

I have a shower stall with separate hot and cold water on/off handles. And I have a drip from the showerhead.

About a month or so ago a guest commented that they thought I had a bit of air in the pipes in that shower stall. Apparently, they thought that because when the water was first turned on it did not start in an even stream. The water flow was a bit uneven and "jerky" (for lack of a better description) when first turned on.

This leak seems like it is something I should be able to fix myself and since money is tight I'd really prefer not to have to spend a couple hundred bucks to have a plumber come if I can avoid it.

I assume the first thing to do is to take the showerhead off and make sure the washer there is in good shape. Beyond that?

Is this something I can fix myself? Or should I just go ahead and call a plumber? WOuld it be possible to find a handyman that does these kinds of plumbing repairs without charging a small fortune?

Your advice please.....Thanks in advance.

[amerikat]

1. Sounds like you need to replace the washer to stop the dripping.

It's easy. There are plenty of good videos on the internet.
Try this one. http://www.wonderhowto.com/how-to/video/how-to-fix-a-leaky-faucet-270265/

[Coyote_Bandit]

2. Thanks

I went to the page you linked and I did not see anything there that even begins to resemble the plumbing hardware in my shower.

I have a tap that turns the hot water on and a separate tap that turn the cold water on. Each tap has a plastic/acrylic cover that turns - kind of like a faucet. Beats the hell out of me how you begin to take the handles off to see whether or not they have cartridges or washers. No visible set screws - or other kinds of screws anywhere. And there isn't a brand name or model number anywhere to help identify such information.

I figure this should be fairly easy routine home maintenance. I also figure it is quite likely that some idiot engineer has concocted a design intended to frustrate homeowners and generate business for the plumbers that install the products.

[amerikat]

3. Maybe this is the style that you have.

A plumber will cost at least $85/hr. Try this video.


http://www.ehow.com/video_15854_fix-leaky-faucet.html

[Coyote_Bandit]

4. Thanks

The video is a sink instead of a shower - but those handles look familiar!

I'll investigate to see if it is possible to pop the ends off and find a screw underneath to remove the handles and access the plumbing underneath.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

5. Don't forget to shut off the water supply before you

remove the valve! By the way I am one of those people you wish to call and most of the time exception to senior citizens I solve those kinds of problems over the phone. ! Including the trip to the store for washers it's about a$45.00 fix . However plumbers will charge $95.00 if it takes ten minutes or less to fix it.Seems to me you already know what to do, it's either a washer or a insert. So how do you get it apart right ? !

[Coyote_Bandit]

6. Right

Getting the thing apart is what frustrates me the most about what should be minor plumbing maintenance.

The suggestion above worked. Used a knife to pop the top off the handles and there was a screw. For some odd reason it was nowhere near centered. Took the screw out and then used a screwdriver to remove the handle. Looks like I have washers rather than cartridges.

Tomorrow I will turn the water off, remove a washer, venture out to the local plumbing supply to buy a couple of replacements and then return and install them. Then I'll see if everything is fixed.

FWIW, I have a plumber that I like and trust. I would not hesitate to call him for a major repair - or for something more complicated - maybe something like a garbage disposal replacement.

Replacing washers is routine maintenance IMHO and ought not to be so difficult. And it wouldn't be if disassembling the fixtures was made a bit more user friendly.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

7. If you take on replacing

your disposal unit the same way you took on your leaking valves-,you may not need to make that call.You learn as you go. If it doesn't seat after the washers are replaced,there is a tool that costs about ten bucks you use to clean out the particles inside the housing.The tool is also used to smooth out the area where the valve seats.More commonly that applies to older valves. 30,40 or 50 years old still in service. However if people are hard on those valves, closing too tight for example, when the washer wears down, what you got is metal to metal contact. You can picture what happens, or the same as wearing down break pads or shoes metal to metal, ,the caliber goes as does the drum. The drum if not too bad can be ground down back to smooth. Same principal valve core! The tool comes with various sized end attachments to fit what size valve it is. Unless your valve stem is shot,that's about all that can be wrong. Change the washers and it will be fine.

[amerikat]

8. The valve seat can be removed and replaced usually.

They normally have an internal hex and can be removed with an Allen Wrench.
The seat can also be resurfaces with a tool called a seat reamer, I think that
is the tool you are talking about. Good advice about remembering to shut off the water supply.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

10. That's about right ,the intire tool kit for all that

costs about thirty bucks. I keep those in my plumbing box for the older valves I come across ! However recently in relation to this particular problem ,I used my grinder to break away some of worn washer which kept the (it) from seating. Sometines you can simply turn the water on ,using the cut off valve to do that ,just enough to flush out the debris.Basicly, what ever works !

[Coyote_Bandit]

9. Thanks

I actually called my friendly plumber a couple of years ago to replace that garbage disposal. I didn't want to deal with plumbing and electrical and dishwasher connections.

[Coyote_Bandit]

11. Fixed!

Thanks again for all the helpful suggestions.

[amerikat]

12. Was it just a washer?

[Coyote_Bandit]

13. Apparently so

though I did clean more gunk from the fittings than I had expected. The shower fixtures look to be everybt of 20 years old and I know they have not required any kind of maintenance for the last seven years or so. This is an old house built in the mid 50s. The 60+ year old galvanized pipes don't help the plumbing. Neither does the re-bath tub liner installed by a previous owner.

When I sell the place I will have to replace and raise the hot water tank. In the meantime there is one toilet that doesn't seem to flush quite right - even after being reseated. And that tub with the liner consistently drains very slowly. I cannot remove the push-pull stopper so I pour chemicals down the damn thing weekly.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

14. Galvy you say:,

How old is the toilet? And describe the symptoms as it occurs during a flush cycle. And where is that bathroom in relation to the lowest point in your plumbing at the point of exiting out, or your exterior pipe line connecting to the city/county drain ? Toilets get hard deposit build up over time, that could be the problem.

I ran against a problem toilet in a house with 4 bathrooms. This one was what they call a water shed. Just a toilet and sink in a hall way leading to the back door and just off to the right of the kitchen. Ok, so the client tells me that toilet never did flush right ,I was over there on a different matter unrelated to plumbing issues. The problem was every other time you flushed ,you had to flush twice. Client description.

I pulled the toilet and poured a five gallon bucket of water straight down the pipe. No problem., it all went down. I told the man it just might be the toilet itself. He said I have no problem having you replace it. The man owns 3 apartment buildings and calls me frequently on building matters. I happened to have a bottle of pre mix Drain Care left over from a job at one of his buildings. I said to the client, look, I got a bottle of this stuff I used on one of yer drain lines at your apartment building, Let me dump the shit down yer pipe and reinstall yer toilet ,if the problem doesn't cure in five days, I'll come back and replace the toilet.

I never had to go back to replace it. He thinks I am one hell of a plumber. He says it works better than it ever did. I am no plumber, I'm just a general contractor.
Try pre mix Drain Care. Pull the toilet and dump the stuff straight down the pipe. Than replace the wax seal and reinstall yer toilet. You no doubt got some hard deposit build up in those pipes ,at a sweep or elbow ,yadda yadda. The stuff dissolves the hard deposit build up. What the heck right, three bucks fer a wax seal and about ten bucks fer the Drain Care/home depot lowe's or what ever hardware you use. You might try changing the flush valve too. Same product fer yer bath tub. The directions say do it at night before you go to bed,the fallowing morning run hot water through yer drain line. On the main line,or yer toilet that * may* not be necessary or I wouldn't worry about hot water ,just flush several times. Give the Drain care product a good eight to ten hours to work.If the flush improves but not to yer full satisfaction,or not as good as a different toilet in the house. -repeat the treatment the next evening. What the heck right,$3.00 fer the wax seal and about ten bucks fer the Drain Care right ! There was this one drain that was a serious problem. It was the bend-turn-elbow-, what went through the foundation out into the drain across ed the property. That one caused the entire drain system to back up. I used the you mix it Drain Care mixed up in a five gallon bucket using hot water over a period of five days,returning the fallowing day to dump buckets of hot water to move the desolved gunk down the pipes ,than mixing up some more to repeat the treatment, while the clients were on vacation of course! That fix got them ten more years . At which point the drain across ed the property was replaced. Back hoe fun! The fix bought them ten years to prepare for that.

* On a note:, I got the idea at a high end plumbing supply where I buy speciality quality plumbing parts ,nickel or silver solder ,the kind of stuff yer local hardware store just doesn't carry. The sales rep. who happens to be a plumber highly recommended the product called Drain Care. Now if you really want to get some first hand insight into how it works,you might just go to a plumbing supply store,not a hardware store or a home depot . As a contractor, I go where the pros go for consults. If yer problem is plunbing ,and yer stuck, you go to a plumbing supply store to get the advice and the parts you need ! It's just that simple.Of course it helps to know trade language,but they are there to help everybody !

Good Luck !

[Coyote_Bandit]

15. The funky toilet

is in the tiny bath and is just feet away from the outdoor trap. Not sure how old the toilet is but I am fairly certain it is not original to the house. We did pour some stuff down it when we reseated it. Its quirks are tolerable.

Honestly, the frickin bathtub in the big bath at the opposite end of the house that doesn't drain properly irritates me a whole lot more. I finally was able to locate the manufacturer and get directions as to how to remove the stopper. I haven't been able to do that though. It would appear that the thing I need to unscrew is frozen - and is so small that it is almost impossible to get any leverage. If I could get the thing out I could snake it. I could also satisfy my curiosity - I suspect there is some sort of filter in the drain mechanism. Chemicals (hair clog remover and drain care) help but they do not resolve the problem. I also use a screen over the drain to try to catch any hair or debris that might go down the drain.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

16. Have you thought about breaking

that pop up off of it ? The drain or most drains anyway are inserted with a tool. The bathtub drain screws in. Or it should. A replacement bathtub drain is only 10 bucks there about.

It is very difficult to get a snake down a bathtub. If you were to look at the plumbing configuration in a diagram as it is plumbed in underneath the tub,you would see why you go into that through a clean out access.It can be done, but it's a task.

I have taken a roto zip with a metal cutting blade and notched two sides of old drains where the center T,which is where the tool connects to either install or remove the tub drain assembly ,-was rotted out or missing in action,than used a screw driver and hammer to tap the drain out. Once you get it to move ,the rest is easy. Thats called tapping it out.

After it's out you remove the the seal from under the tub-pull it up through the hole. Put yer new seal in,down through the hole using yer screw driver to carefully align the gasket,than add a little plumbers putty around the area where yer new drain inserts and screw the new drain in. With the tool of course. It cost about ten bucks. OK so maybe $25 bucks total . Yer new tub drain will come with the gasket and a screw in pop up if you go that route and directions for the install. Those directions will clarify just what I am getting at.And there is no filter on that. There may be dubris trapped ,in that area though.
I would think since you cannot remove the pop up ,the drain itself as far as using the tool to remove it is in good shape.The T by the way is sort of in the way if yer were to stick a snake down there! So yer letting that pop up hold up the big change ?

Why is that?

[Coyote_Bandit]

17. I've threatened

to take a dremel to the bathtub stopper and cut the damn thing out. The only thing that keeps me from doing it is the knowledge that the previous homeowner thought a tub liner was a good idea - and the uncertainty of the consequences of removing the stopper from said tub.

After considerable effort I was able to locate and contact the manufacturer (they do not have a web page). I know how the thing is supposed to come out. But the part that is supposed to unscrew is frozen in place.

This is an old house and it has rusty galvanized pipes. And maybe there is more buildup than I think. Still this bathtub is the only fixture that has drainage problems. I use a screen to catch hair and other debris and I make frequent use of hair clog remover and drain care. Chemicals are easy - beyond that it beats me what to do with it.....

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

18. Can you see anything about that drain ,looking

at it as it is seated ,the chrome where the tub drain is seated. Do you see anything about it that indicates the drain itself cannot be removed as per normal? You have changed a tire on a car right? You know you have to break it lose. It is threaded,you know that right? There is no other kind of tub drain. The drain is installed or seated from the inside of the tub. That is the finnal phase of tub instalation. That method has not changed in 80 years. The only thing that has changed is the material yer drains are made of. Or 50 years ago everything was metal. There is no secret to how a tub drain goes in or comes out. A gasket on the bottom of the tub between the drain connection which is threaded -the female end ,it seats up against the tub bottom. From the top end a little plumbers putty around tub drain hole where the drain inserts ,and tighten it down,thats it.There is no other way to do it.Think about it, the gasket on the bottom is about leaking ,that gasket prevents the drain from leaking at the bottom end. It's kind of like a pressure seal .

Does the tub linner prevent you from removing the drain,is that it? Take a picture of the drain and post it on yer thread.

Wouldn't you like to have a brand new ajustable pop up drain ,the kind where the pop up is threaded and very easy to ajust or remove ? I never did like pop up drains,I got one in spa tub,it's really never been a problem. The intire assembly is only about $15 bucks. Go over to a plumbing supply store in yer locality and have a little consult with somebody what knows something and can simply tell it to yer in the language of the locals! Trust me, you will feel better ! After that,yer can go ahead on and conquer fear itself ! And it will do you good !

[Coyote_Bandit]

19. I've contacted

the manufacturer to get instructions as to how to remove this drain stopper. Their instructions do not work.

However, there are several Google search results that suggest it is quite common for this particular drain to be used with tub liners. And it is often GLUED to the old existing drain.

The drain is manufactured by Watco and is a push pull model. There is a knob on the stopper that unscrews. When the stopper is closed and that knob is removed there is a tube that extends less than a quarter of an inch above the top of the stopper. The tube is hollow and extends several inches down the drain. According to the manufacturer you are supposed to be able to remove the stopper by unscrewing this tube. Tube does not budge. It is difficult is get leverage on the thing. It could be either frozen or glued.

There are also lots of Google search results that suggest that lots of folks have problems removing this stopper to access the drain.

I suspect that the best solution to my drainage problem would be to replace the bathtub - and with it the drain.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

20. You still must remove the drain to

remove the bathtub. What is the possibility of getting a look at the plumbing underneath the tub ? It never ceases to amaze me what extremes people Will go to avoid removing a bathtub. Two weeks ago I removed some fifties floor tile in a apartment house bathroom ,the owner wanted to have the bathtub professionally sprayed to save a few bucks.The tub was cast iron,and serious damage was done to the floor Joyce's from leaking over the years. I told the penny pincher that tub will one day fall through the floor down into the apartment below ,you need to get yer head out of the sand right here and right now.I had my helper remove the tong and groove sub flooring about five feet by six feet of it than put a flood light under the tub and had the dude owner see fer himself. He said can you get that tub out now, I'll pay you extra to do it today! On that one-,after removing the drain to avoid any unnecessary plumbing problems, we took a sludge hammer and broke that tub apart.

Your thoughts about getting rid of the bathtub is no doubt the best thing to do. New valves would make a big difference as well.Change some of the water feed lines too, may help to boost the water pressure at the tub a little. And of course you will find rotted wood that needs tending to. Sometimes you can double up on the floor joyce's and wall framing.That's called sister it up. By replacing the sheet rock you will also eliminate Oder's . If you can get a pair of vice grips on that drain plug or a pipe wrench ,you may be able to work it loose. Using the same bath valve, because the tub surround wall was recently tiled a few years back ,the do over on that bathroom took only two days. Of course the apartment was vacant. You can also get a first hand look and the tub drain lines. Sometimes the problem areas are bends and sweeps, 45 ,90 degree.You can remove a cast iron bathtub without breaking it apart-, have done that,either way you remove those, there is grunt work involved.

By the way, did you spray the screw up with wd40 of something ? On the quick fix I mean

[Coyote_Bandit]

21. I've tried

the WD 40 - sprayed it into the area as best as I could.

I expect that in the not too distant future I will need to sell this place and relocate out of state to help care for aging parents. I'm also some combination of long term unemployed/self-employed - and I am most definitely watching my pennies.

If I see something that needs attention I will take care of it before conditions deteriorate. But this is an old house, I know I will likely not be here long term and I have no desire to let this place become a money pit.

At the very least, replacing the tub will also require replacing the tub surround and most likely the floor tile in that bathroom. And I expect there are probably some hiden repairs that likely will be required. I've got nothing good to say about tub liners - but it really doesn't make a whole lot of sense for me to put the dollars into a proper repair either.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

22. I see what you are saying.

The apartment building owner had insurance liabilities to consider. By law I had to tell him what the damages were and the risk factor. For me to complete that job his way,he will have had to except the full risk and sign a release form stating he choose not to repair the damage. Insurance company's look for ways to get out of paying,and contract repair work is where they start looking.

If it came down to it, you could simply replace the tub. Replace it with a light weight steel or fiberglass tub. About $100 bucks.Plus the fifteen bucks for the drain kit.That would also make a difference toward the sale of the house.At the very least, if it came down to it, you will have conquered that problem.

I understand the budget and watching pennies. But I also deal with greed and cheapness. What bothers me more often than not is the greedy cheap type coming across as though they have to watch their pennies more than I do. But that's all about the philosophy of power.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

23. I had a look at one of those tub liners,

fiberglass. Now I can see yer problem for what it is !

What occurred to me is this, is there any reason you can't cut that pop up out, perhaps using your dremmel and simply use a rubber stopper ? That way you do not have to remove the drain assembly itself. You might even get lucky and get it out without damaging the part where the pop up is fastened. It would be a bit of a surgical procedure,but,I'll bet you can do it.I would take my roto zip and start by cutting a - v notch on the top of the pop up and go from there. By the way, is the pop up top plastic or metal ? Once the pop up top is removed, that screw should be clearly accessible, do you think ?

[Coyote_Bandit]

24. I am so tempted

to cut that pop up out and to use a rubber stopper. The post that connects the pop up is supposed to unscrew. It doesn't. Doesn't even budge the slightest bit after after repeated applications of WD40. I suspect it was glued/epoxied/siliconed when installed. I'm told these kinds of things are not uncommon with tub liners.

In the not too distant future I will likely be required to relocate to help care for aging family members. I'm a little reluctant to break out the dremel. The current arrangement may not work well but it looks nice. As long as I dump enough chemical crap down the drain it is functional and will pass inspection when I put the house up for sale.

Given the current real estate market I refuse to put too much money into getting this place ready to sell. But I'm willing to put out some money and effort to help sell the place quicker. Some DIY projects may be order - including some paint and lots of scrubbing.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

25. When you are ready to approach market

give a holler,! The scrubbing part,we use industrial cleaners -,not the kind of stuff you will find at the supermarket. Nobody likes to scrub !
Currently and on going ,I am getting a condominium ready for market.The painting was the most important part,the rest is basic fix and shine. I have a meeting with the Realtor and the photographer tomorrow morning. My client is not sure rather to rent or sell right now.The preparation end of it is mostly cosmetic. The Realtor on the first meeting was impressed with the cleaning aspect-the vinyl floors ,some tile so on. Laughing when he said to the client, when you want squeaky clean ready for show, call a contractor,not a cleaning service! Those industrial cleaning materials ! I never scrub !Tile for example, I just throw down tile floor stripper in a massive dose,use a wet dry vac. to get it up after it sets for several hours and the floor cleans it self!A battery operated scrubby fer the tough spots,- vinyl,you use a vinyl floor stripper.
You use chrome shine to do facets and so fourth.All the tricks the industrial cleaning services use in those commercial buildings,with some contractor tricks mixed in !

On a note: I was looking at that tub liner, in particular the drain part.You are most likely right, leave it be.