What do I do about floors

[quakerboy]

I am (hopefully) buying an upstairs condo. The carpets are thrashed. Clearly a smoker lived there for a good long while. Being allergic and asthmatic, the carpets got to go.

So, what should I replace it with? Cost is an issue, and I strongly suspect that this means I will have to do any necessary installation mypersonalself. How hard are the "click-lock" floors that I keep hearing about to install? I am leaning towards that at the moment, based on what little help I was able to receive in a preliminary visit to a Lowes.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

1. I use a skill saw,table saw and chop saw

to do the cutting. I use a roto zip to make the cut in's around doors and other tight spots. Snap in floors are easy ,but there is a little craft work. Lets say you start at one end with a full length board. When you reach the opposite end you will have a cut. You use the excess cut end to begin your next row starting back where you began.

So,what do you got for tools?

And what do you want to know?
Also you can buy the snap together flooring with the backing already attached. By the way the better the quality of the flooring, the easier it is to install. And most places that sell carpet also sell snap together flooring. Look around. See yer phone book.

Didn't you build a bed? You know about keeping the floor straight ,using a level ,using yer shims to keep space between the wall and your flooring. Those floors are called floating floors and there is expansion and contraction. We use silicone caulk when the floor is finished around the edges ,it allows for expansion and at the same time keeps the floor from shifting. If you are good at measuring and cutting, and can keep exact consistency in yer spacing,you may not need to use caulk. Some use it,some don't.

It you remove the base board molding it will go a lot easier on you.Your door casings ,around jams and so fourth, can get a little tricky. It really has to be perfect cut in's,- in those areas.

You can buy a installation dvd ,some of those products give those how to instructional's away. And those floating floor's are the in thing. I stick those floors in condo's a lot. Residential homes too ! The concept was created in Sweden back in the eighties.

Oh, by the way,a good hammer helps to tap in a little. There is a shim kit you buy for those floors. It also has the plastic slide edger you use to tap the boards in. The newer stuff will snap in by hand,but not every time.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

2. OK ! Step one ,removing carpet

What you do is get yerself a good razor knife and a pk. of blades. A roll of duct tape and you will need a pry bar to get up the carpet tracks! Yer going to be transporting the old carpet through the house and to where ever you are going to dump it. A pair of pliers works to grab a corner and pull the carpet back. I would remove the base board molding at this phase.

What I do is cut the carpet in 24 or 36 inch strips the length of a room roll it up than duct tape it to make it easy to transport. You will not mar up the walls that way ! You do the same with the carpet matt . Than pull all nails and staples ! Get yer industrial vac. and clean up the floor ,clean and free of debris.

You do not have to remove the base board molding to install carpet or a floating floor.

However on a floating floor I always do unless it's a older house with ,oh say 5 1/2 inch base board molding. If thats the case I will add a trim molding after the floor is installed.And some people decide they want molding to match the flooring after it goes down.

Anyhoooo,after the carpet is removed ,it's just a matter of deciding what to put down ! And the smoke smell will be gone !

Good Luck !

[quakerboy]

6. This sounds like a good argument

for painting after the carpet is out. I wonder how bulky all that carpet will be. I bet the HOA would not approve of my shoving it all into a onsite dumpster. Better check on that.

[goddess40]

23. Cut it strips and roll and tape it

into smaller sizes and dump in in the dumpster over time if you think your landlord will disapprove.

[quakerboy]

5. Heh.

Good memory. The bed was indeed me. And it is glorious. Over engineered to a fault. You could drop a truck on it and it wouldn't even shiver.

As to tools: I have (1) inherited hammer, assorted screwdrivers, a PVC pipe cutting device, and a large knife that appears to be socketed for use as a bayonet. I am assuming I will need to make some purchases, but so far all I have is the general terms "saw" and "mallet"

We will need to repaint everything as well. I am of divided mind as to whether it would be better to paint before the carpet comes out or after. The baseboard moldings will need to come out before either. How hard is it to replace the moldings around doors and whatnot? Seems like it might be good to pull those off as well, if practical. Maybe the doors as well. I am out of my depth here, but I have faith that with some work i can figure it out. This posting is part of my process.

So, what is the backing? Is this the same as what they call an "underlayer"? I like the caulk idea. Seems sensible.

[Stinky The Clown]

3. I would straongly advise buying Alloc Original if you want laminate flooring

http://www.alloc.com/us_laminate_floor.html

Click "residential"

Click "original"

We have it in our kitchen and our foyer. Both high traffic and high abuse. Both are several yars old. Both are like new.

Alloc Original has a unique aluminum locking device on each plank that makes the stuff easy as pie to install and to stay together over time. We put a less expensive click lock floor in our rental and it was a pain in the ass to install and has shown some separation with time.

The product is somewhat more costly than other flooring you can find, but it is, in my view, well worth it.
**Well** worth it.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

4. That would be the reason

fer caulking around the edges. The 1/4 inch gap required along the edges is for expansion,it's a floating floor. The caulk keeps it tight and allows for expansion and contraction. It is when the floor shifts just a little ,there is where separation will occur. The caulk keeps it all tight.

You will not find the caulking aspect in it in the directions. Installer's figured that out. If the store you buy the product from also installs, a good sales rep. will tip you off about caulking the edges.The directions say leave a space between the wall and the floor for expansion. That space can also allow for shifting,and shifting invites seperation of boards.

It's called a trick to the trade. Although the better the product ,the better it is.

You can pay $40.00 per box ,$55.00 per box,$65.00 per box times 20 ,or 30 box's dependent upon the square footage ,it's all about what the budget will allow.. Installed properly,it all looks good and will last.

[quakerboy]

7. What do you mean when you say

"somewhat more costly"? I see sales for 1.99/sf occasionally. Halving(or better) an auxiliary cost that will be stretching my budget to begin with sure is tempting. And we don't plan to live here more than 10 years. I'm not sure the additional investment is worth it, in these circumstances, depending on what it is.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

8. Yes, the backing is the under lament..

however you have already eyed some stuff on sale ! The underlayment costs about $25.00 per roll and is sold separate. you will need a skill saw. You can rent a chop saw or buy one fer about $100.00 .A good jig saw or roto zip for cut in around door casings ,-jams and so fourth. You may need some assistance from your dad too ! On the skill saw ,you will want a very good blade.,lots of teeth. About $15.00 to $20.00 bucks on that blade.and yer going to have to learn to use that saw.I use a 12 inch compound miter saw ,electric to cut that stuff. Those blades fer good ones are about $50.00 bucks. you can rent one too at tool rental. Hertz rentals has tools fer rent. Otherwise look in the phone book for tool rental places in yer locality.

You can buy a skill saw for about $50.00 bucks!
I carry a portable table saw on my truck, by taking the guard off it cuts the flooring boards good. I have installed those floors with just a skill saw, but no cut in's around doors. Example going through a door into another room in a continuous run.

Go and pick up a installation instruction dvd or vcr. I think most of those are DVDs now. Home Depot or Lowe's carries those. Sometimes those are free.
Also HD has classes on weekends all about installing floors. you might call about that.

OK ,so viewing a instructional dvd for floating floors is The place to start.Every product manufacturer has those. Call that step one.

And go visit a tool rental place, look around in there,pick up a price guide.

By the way, a ten inch chop saw or compound miter saw is the tool you use to make the cuts on your molding. 45 degrees is the standard although that does very. 22.5 degrees is another. You might pick up a book on that,about $15.00 The book will illustrate all the in's and out's about installing moldings !

[quakerboy]

10. My dad

is an engineer. But he couldn't cut anything straight if his life depended on it. Proven fact.

My wife is the handy one. She took shop back when I was taking home-ec.

Ive searched home depot, but I really don't want to buy from them if I have a choice. I plan on buying tools when financially feasible. Then I have them as long as needed for whatever I want. This will be my home for now, but there will be another someday, and I am sure I will need to do similar work there someday.

Good tip on the dvd. I will see if I can find a free one.

[Warpy]

15. Check the price on renting a power saw

Either a miter saw (small and portable) or table saw (big and stable). Sometimes renting for a single project beats having a power tool you trip over between uses every five years or so. They can make the job go quickly and won't wear you out like picking up the Skil saw every couple of minutes will.

[quakerboy]

12. BTW

What did you mean "keep the floor straight"?

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

14. I think the instructional will clarify that to you.

Let's say to start at one end of the room and run yer flooring straight across the wall to the opposite end. If the wall is not perfectly straight and level which it is not ,there will be inconstancy in your line. So ,you throw yer level across ed the the floor boards holding it on the edge. If yer throwing up a fence for example ,a wood fence ceder boards, about every four boards or so you put your level on the edge of the fence board to check it, to see that yer boards are straight and level.

With the required 1/4 inch gap between the flooring boards and the wall, can you not see how easy it would be for the floor to kick in a little during the install? Shims do not always stay in place!

These days you throw a lazier line across the floor and set yer first row. Than about every other row throw another Lazar line crossed to make sure yer lines are straight. A row of flooring equals a line. Everything is lines. All lines must be perfectly straight.

You ever look at tile? Notice all the grout lines are straight and in a straight line as are the tiles. Everything in construction is lines.All lines must be perfectly straight and level even if all existing lines are not! And in most any house or condo, the lines are not ! But thats a bit of a construction thing ! I mean hay,who would notice right ? !If yer not sure, take a level a 4 foot lever and check out the walls ,ceiling counter tops ,cabinets ,everything! ,you will see !

When setting your floor, your lines must be straight.If it's your roof and yer setting shingle it's the same ,you set your first row perfectly straight and than proceed ,checking as you go. Lines and lines and lines and lines. Everything is lines. ! Straight lines !

[quakerboy]

16. FYI

Lowes does not provide instructional videos, for free or a charge, anymore.

And the whole thing seems to have temporarily become a moot point. The bank has apparently decided that 20+ months is not long enough to hold on to the property, as they have stopped responding to offers.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

17. Keep in mind

You can make improvements within your budget . In everything you can buy there is top of the line and the bottom of the line. There is somewhere in the middle. The trick to it is this,do it right or don't do it at all. If it's done right it will look as good as it can look and it will last as long as it should.

Back in 98 I did several rooms in a house with a floating floor. They loved that flooring and their kids grew up on it. ! The work done was within their budget at the time.

What they wanted was real hard wood floors, but the budget would not allow for it. Now the kids are adults ,and recently in a different budget situation all the floors are hard wood Swedish finish. Ten years latter !

That floating floor I put in was the old glue the joints stuff.(Pergo).Even the flooring specialist I brought in to do the Swedish finish on the new flooring said, -he was amazed at how well the pergo flooring held up .That means after ten years of use ,there was no separation in the flooring boards. Even the high traffic areas held up.

Now those floating floors have come a long way since 1998. But like I said, installed the right way it all looks good and will last.

Since 1990 I have done a lot of work on that house. And in those years things changed along budget lines. But each and every job done met the budget at the time. And things change,and that's just what the remodel game is all about !

If the top of the line meets the budget,than so be it. And if not,than so be that. Either way it comes about the key to it is this, do it right,or don't do it at all. People that look for short cuts, short change themselves !There is real change and there is short change,go for what is real !

[quakerboy]

18. Yeah. The problem is I have the freedom

to choose budget. Its all a matter of priorities. I was "lucky" to inherit some money recently. Not enough to pay anything off, but enough to get me into a cheap residence at a payment equivalent to my current rent. So I have some freedom in how I allot it. Do I maximize the down and buy the 65 cents a square foot flooring I just saw advertised at Ikea, or do I minimize my down and buy the Aloc that was recommended in this thread. I have the freedom to chose, and I'm not entirely sure what the right choice is.

At the moment though, the bank is ignoring offers, so I have more time to consider things. Maybe I can find a new place in the interim, with all the things I would want and no work needing done, and make it a moot point. Though part of me was/is looking forward to doing this stuff myself, making it Mine.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

19. In that case I think

you have someone other in your life to help you think it through ! between now and what ever the road down the line holds fer you, you might happen into a floating floor in a house or a store ,than say to yerself, this looks great and it's something I can do !

The last floor I put in came along in just that way! The woman of the house went to a beauty shop to have her hair done,the shop had a new floor put in. She asked the shop owner all about the floor ,the selling point was it took only a day and a half to install ! They started on a Saturday and finished on Sunday.

The woman called me and asked if I knew about those kind of floors! I said yes I know about that. She said good, come over and lets talk,I want one!

[quakerboy]

20. a day and a half sounds good

Though, given i have to work and would have to do it myself, I suspect a few days might be more realisitic. Whenever I get to that point.

[Stinky The Clown]

9. I don't recall what we paid, exactly, but it was probably about 50% more that a product like Pergo

Pergo being representative of what one pay for an average mass market, okay quality product.

Don't take that as gospel, though. Alloc is sold through flooring specialty stores, not Home Depot or Lowes. When you see the actual product alongside a product like Pergo, the difference will be very apparent.

[quakerboy]

11. I will look into it

thanks

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

13. I know what you mean Stinky !

I buy through suppliers at a very different price particularly where it is about specialty items. But I do that through a business license and tax id number. So it's a different set of rules.

Actually , Hd and Lowe's places like that have a pretty good supply on hand fer the average person's taste. Although I would never suggest to a customer special ordering a thing out of those places!Or any other place fer that matter !And specialty stores have unseemly prices !Frankly their contractor prices suck too !

But the beauty of going on line is getting around all that !Good suppliers have access to about anything there is on the market,or it's equivalent in a different name brand.

[create.peace]

21. your downstairs neighbors may be used to carpets, so you might want to get some area rugs....having

been a downstairs neighbor....

[goddess40]

24. The type of underlayment makes a difference too.

When I put our floor in I used a product I think was called Quiet walk. It was a few years ago, just before the click and lock came out. If I had waited a month I wouldn't have had to deal with the glue and clamps!

[Kolesar]

22. Wash the walls with trisodium phosphate detergent before priming and painting

Layers of smoke oozed through one of my paint jobs. There is a trisodium phosphate substitute for use in the Great Lakes states. Hope your new home works out great!!!

[angstlessk]

25. Novalis floors from Lowes....99 cents per square foot...see the links here at

GardenWeb..they swear by them! I have em ready to put down on my kitchen floor! http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/flooring/msg0911023312366.html

Scroll through the comments and see the pictures. the golden oak seems to be the favorite, which is what I have.

[NMDemDist2]

26. I loved that stuff!! we used it through out our PHX home and it held up

for years and years

go for it!!

here's a pic after about 5 years down as we were selling the house

[angstlessk]

27. yet ANOTHER testimonial about the product...every one loves it who has

used it..espesally the golden oak, seems the gun stock has problems? Your floors are gorgeous! I hope mine turn out as well!