Here we go again. Neighbor encroaching on public land again.

[OnionPatch]

I wrote about this here last year some time. We've been doing home improvement on our place so I came to this forum a lot. Our property and our next-door neighbor's borders county park land. This is the main reason we bought our property. We searched for two years to find a place adjacent to a natural area that would not be developed. A few years ago someone bought the house next door and immediately started bulldozing the entire place, bringing in construction equipment, etc. But since it was on their land, we just covered it by planting fast-growing trees on our common property line. It wasn't worth the conflict with the neighbors to turn them in for minor zoning violations. But it's been three years now and the bulldozing has never stopped. And now they've decided their own property is not enough for them.....They've dumped about 50 dump-truck-loads of fill-dirt into the park property and built a parking lot big enough to store a semi-truck or more there! This is without a question completely on park property. He knew where the property line was, there used to be a fence there when he moved in, right in line with our fence. It was quite clear. They keep an RV there right now and some truck trailers and equipment. This construction parking lot is now the main view out of our bedroom window and much of our backyard, when we should be viewing natural woods and parkland. Would this be ok with any of you??! We talked to authorities last spring and he was told to remove the stuff from the park's land, which he did for a few weeks, and then moved it all right back on. Recently we talked to the park and the county again and the neighbors found out and are really furious with us. I guess it's our fault that they were caught stealing. :shrug:

I'm wondering if any DUers have had similar experiences and what the issues might be between the park, the county and us? We're going to do everything in our power to have his parking lot removed. How much can he be fined? Can we be optimistic that he will be forced to remove his parking lot? I'm so furious I'm seeing red but have so far been able to keep from responding in kind to their threats and insults.

[Warpy]

1. He can and should be fined

for unauthorized use of public land. I think what he's hoping for is that his bulldozing and pad construction will constitute an easement and that a few year down the line, it will be his.

Check out your zoning, too, and make sure it's residential because it really sounds like they're using that place for commercial purposes. You might also have a wetlands problem with all the fill they dumped there.

If it's a county park and not a state or federal park, there's probably little you can do beyond making a stink. If your neighbor has connections or the means to buy connections, you are likely stuck and your own place will be unsellable.

As for the rancor, these people are thieves, as you put it. While arguments with neighbors are never pleasant, these people started off being bad neighbors and it can't get a whole lot worse.

[OnionPatch]

2. It's a county park.

There are a lot of issues. I won't go into them all, but one is probably environmental because there is a permanent stream only about 100 yards downhill from where he did all this, and he filled in a dry wash that leads to the stream.

Our community is zoned residential/agricultural with minimum one-acre lots. Nearly everyone has orchards and farm animals, especially riding horses, because there is the park next door with equestrian trails and also a lot of national forest surrounding us. People do care about keeping it nice and natural around here. The park and the county both seem to want to do something about getting him off, and there are things in the works. I hope they turn out well. We hope to sell in a year or two, so if nothing else, I hope we can get him off the park land and keep him off until then.

[CC]

3. Since he already knows you turned him in

and is already furious it might be time to take things public beyond reporting him. Write letters to the editor, call the local paper out. Point out the environmental impact but also point out that it is stealing from taxpayers and that the county elected officials are not working hard enough or fast enough to take back the taxpayers property. I bet a few people will get furious at him besides you.
Do you have photos of before, during and after? Share them with the public too.

[OnionPatch]

6. There are aerial photos.

The county has a great online GIS system (geographic information system) with high-resolution satellite imagery that clearly shows the area. The property line data overlays it. Actually his damage does not show on the imagery they're currently displaying on their website because their imagery is a few years old, so they have the "before" shot right now. It shows nothing but trees and forest where the parking lot sits now and you can see the original fence right on the property line. (He tore that fence out, of course, when he moved in.) I'm a professional cartographer who works with this kind of data, so I know what I'm looking at on the map. Heck, a five-year-old could pick out the area in question. I'm sure there's source for more recent imagery available somewhere that shows his new parking lot clearly. And yes, I have taken photos, too.

Right now the county and the park system both seem to be very willing to do something about this, so we'll see what sort of results we get. But I will definitely keep your suggestions in mind.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

4. It might help to get organized.

Try contacting as many people in your area as possible and look into creating a co-op.Coalition. As it is you are locked into a dispute over public land with your neighbor and the county officials who are all operating under a slim under funded budget.

I don't think the RTD runs through your area, but as I recall all kinds of California issues were discussed on the RTD !That's the L.A. county public transportation .Such matters are a California concern of the people.

So, you need to contact community members in your locality. Because you can't take on your neighbor and the county yourself. You just can't go it alone. Leave there be no doubt a vast majority of people in your locality share your concerns about those who steal public land to expand their property and it's value.
Really never met a person from California who had little or no cern for the environment. And your issues belong to the public really.
You got a phone book and a computer. And right there are two basic tools to get started.

Print up some flyer's and get the ball rolling. Invest in some stamps.
Get some phone numbers circulating.
Let your neighbors get involved.
You can do it.

Good luck with your project.

[OnionPatch]

5. Let me see what happens.

The county and park have a visit scheduled to view the property very soon. If the parking lot doesn't disappear, you've given me some great ideas. I know of a local organization that fights to protect the natural areas around here. I can start with them. Our local neighborhood org will probably not be happy with it, either.

I'm pretty sure now that this neighbor bought the place because he was counting on grabbing that land. He probably won't give it up easily.

Thanks.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

7. May I suggest you stop

holding out out for hope where it comes down to what your neighbor is all about. If he stepped across the line ,than he knew exactly what he was doing. He is a scumbag who does not care about you,public land ,or anybody for that matter. He is a self serving scumbag.

As a contractor I can tell you your neighbor studied the area ,the lay out of the land , looked it over very carefully ,did his research. And figured out how much he can get away with,all of this before he bought the property. He was and is well aware of the slim county budget and he knows there is a slim chance any laws he broke will be subject to enforcement. He probably has inspectors in his pocket.He did his research on the layout of the land before he bought the property.

Take off the rose color glasses .

Now here is his fear.
The power of the people is in the numbers. And that is a political matter of fact. In fact that is a age old matter of fact.After ww2 voting in this country dropped off quite a bit. By the mid fifties most working class men did not bother to vote anymore. But in California that did not hold true such as it did in most other states. Take a look at some of the many fantastic things California lead the way with. Education for one.

It will take pressure from the community to get county authorities off their ass's. If you were to ask the parks people why this guy just gets away with this, budget will enter the conversation. Lack of funds. Bottom line,a fire must be lite under the ass of some county official on high. That requires political pressure. And your neighbors becoming organized is all the pressure it will take. Power in the numbers.

Like a very long signed list, names and addresses and phone numbers of the people that just say no way on that.
Look at it this way, your neighbors will say, no matter how far away they are, if that ass hole can get away with that, every ass hole can.

You know how people in California frown upon drivers that pay no mind to pedestrians crossing in the cross walk, or without a cross walk, the law says stop for people does it not? People want it that way. Ass holes pay laws or demands of the people no mind.

You have been sitting back and watching this guy do it for a year now.
The time to start fighting back is now, get ready for it,do your research, just like he researched the lay out of the land before he bought the land.

Start testing those waters, reach out to your neighbors.If you worry about how he will react when he finds out you are his problem, than that scumbag is counting on that. His forceful aggressive intimidating ways are working for him. You get your neighbors involved,and his game will come to a abrupt end. And believe this, he knows that,in the very same way he calculated what and how much he can get away with. And he calculated the risk.

Make no mistake about it, I have seen many of those arrogant bastards whimper
of beaten ,filled with self pity.And the biggest and the most arrogant,the seeming meanest are the ones that cry the most ,big bastard babies they are.Oh and some of them are very well educated big bastard babies. But stupid just the same.

Don't let that stupid bastard and his friends alike beat you. You never know, your friends just might pull down some crooks in high places in your county. You just might pull down some of those political appointment cushy lard ass's right down into the unemployment line where they belong. And no doubt it has been a long time coming!

Been a while since I raised a little down California way! How you all doing by the way!

[OnionPatch]

8. Yes, I think you're right. He planned this the first day he set sight on the property.

In fact, I remember seeing him running up and down looking at that area a lot when he moved in. He knew exactly what he was doing. And he was so "nice" to us, giving us leftover building materials and stuff. He was "grooming" us, hoping we would look the other way. I hate to tell him, but our view of the park is worth 1000x more than any leftover lumber he gave us and I would have told him so when he offered if he'd been honest about his intentions.

My husband threatened to sue the park and/or county and they seem to be genuinely working on it but I will take your advice and start talking to the neighbors. There is a neighborhood group that works to keep the area rural. I'll start there.

And they do already know that we turned them in, they left a very nasty message on our phone threatening to turn us in for some bogus stuff that we are in no way worried about. They got nothin' on us. We actually respect zoning and property laws, a new concept for him, I suppose.

So Cal is doing fine, I guess, but good for you for getting out. I assume since you live in Washington, you understand how lucky you are, lol. I guess there are some decent areas in So Cal, but IMO, they are few and far between. I'm just jaded, I guess. We hope to move back to Pennsylvania eventually, which isn't Washington, but is a big improvement over this particular area of CA, the way I see it.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

9. Everybody from California came from somewhere!

Pennsylvania is just around the bend from western New York ! Where all the apple orchards are! And yes indeed I never lose site of my good luck landing here in Washington. ! It is the end of the trail for me and became the new beginnings.To me there is nothing that compares to pulling the apple of the tree or the pares ,or the cherries and everything else eatable off of the trees! It's everything I know less all the snow!And the peaches ,indeed the peaches!Where are though!

Orange county is still very cool.The Califonia sun, nothing like it anywhere !Right fine people too!


Keep us posted on progress.

Good Luck OnionPatch !
And reach out to your neighbors.
That's what California is all about.

[OnionPatch]

10. I love orchards, too.

So you moved to Washington from New York? New York is beautiful, too, but yeah, cold. Pennsylvania is not much further south, and almost as cold, but it's as far south as we're willing to go (no solid red states for us, thanks) so Pennsylvania it will probably be. If we lived in Orange County, it might be harder to leave California, but we don't live in Orange County, we live in the Riverside County. Granted, this is a relatively pretty area of it.

Thanks for all the advice. :)

[CC]

11. Maryland is south of PA

and pretty solid blue.:) Only the edges seem to be red and I am stuck on the eastern one. Course so is the part of PA only 1 mile north of me. sigh :hi: Working on these people though and slowly changing some.

[OnionPatch]

12. After I posted, I thought about that.

Maryland and didn't Virginia go blue last time? Then there are little pockets of blue. I think Asheville, NC is relatively blue, too. Let's hope the trend keeps going that way.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

13. Actually Onionpatch !

I moved to Washington from sourthern California! Before that I moved from Buffalo to California. But that was years ago ! There is some military service inbetween something and something else! I found it easy to adapt to the California life style ,however the fast pace of of life in L.A. County became a bit much. Not to mention the ever increasing crime rate.Fresno is very cool ,Northern California is nice. But southern California ,nothing compares!


Get togather with your neighbors and put it to that rip off artist.
Than watch him turn right into that cry baby he really is.
All the money he invested fer noth'en!
That's the way he will look at it.
He thinks he is making the place better!
And he thinks laws to protect natural growth are stupid.
The real powwer is in the numbers.

[OnionPatch]

14. I'm sure he thinks the rules are stupid.

My husband and I have been joking that he's probably thinking, "What are they mad about? I stole it fair and square!!" :)