Trying my hand at tile

[SiouxJ]

Everyone always says it's easy- do it yourself, so I'm going to. I ordered some of that tile that is all laid out in a pattern (like a mosaic of 1" squares and some rectangles) and is on a backing. It's stone tile and was very expensive so I hope I don't screw it up. For my first attempt I'm doing something simple (that is, I think it's simple). I'm just doing the inside of a doorway. It's the doorway (really an opening, there's no door) between my master bath and bedroom. I'm just doing a strip of tile along the inside of the doorway. Anyway, I'm looking for tips. At the tile supplier, they already told me that where the tile will be upside-down (at the top of the doorway), I should tack it up with nails to help hold it while the quick-set dries. Beyond that I'm winging it. My first question is, what size trowel groove do I use to put down the quick-set? The tile is 3/8" thick.

I shouldn't have to do much cutting but a friend of mine has already offered up their tile saw so I'm all set there.

Any tips, based on personal experience would be much appreciated :-) .

I'll post pics when I'm done. This is the final part of my bedroom re-model.

[Chalco]

1. They should tell you at the tile store, what type of trowel to use.

It's very important not to use the wrong one. I used the wrong one on a mosaic tile once and ended up with massive clean up.

[SiouxJ]

2. I may have to go back and ask

they weren't very helpful yesterday when I picked up the tile. It's like they weren't interested because I wasn't a contractor working on a big expensive job. The showroom people were more helpful when I ordered it so I may go back and talk to them. Thanks. Didn't know it was that crucial.

[Stinky The Clown]

3. Tile work actually is pretty easy ..... but .....

there are tricks and rules and do's and don'ts.

Someone already mentioned trowel notch size.

What kind of stone is it? How wide are the grout lines? Different tile materials and different width grout lines call for different grouts. You have two basic choices: sanded and unsanded. But then there are variations in each category. Soft stone like marble does not get along well with sanded grout. Frankly, the tile store is the best source for a reliable recommendation.

I don't like the idea of nailing tile (I understand the nailing is through the plastic web backer material). The mortar is wet. Nails rust. Rust stains migrate and are murder to stop. Even after all is set and dried, the grout still has a degree of porosity and moisture enough to rust the nails could find its way back there. Consider copper, stainless or aluminum nails. Look in the roofing nail area. That's where you'll find them at the hardware store. Galvanized nails will still rust, so don't use them.

Having said all that, I've tiled ceilings and with an appropriate mortar have never had a problem with tiles falling before the mortar sets. But you're using composites that are ... what? ... 12" square? They weigh more than smaller 4x4 or 3x6 tiles. But again, if the mortar's right, there should not be a problem.

You need a grout float and a grout sponge.

Make sure you get the right consistency to your grout, particularly in that you're working on a ceiling surface. But even on a floor, making the grout too wet or too dry could (but may not) lead to grout failure. It is almost impossible to describe the right consistency in words because all terms are so relative. But consider that you want the grout to be the consistency of very stiff mashed potatoes. Peaks need to stand on their own and not fall. On the flip side, too dry and you won't fill the grout lines fully, or will have to press too hard to fill them.

If I can offer a suggestion .... get the materials (grout, thin-set, etc) you need for your particular tile. The smallest package is likely more than you'll need for such a small job. The buy some cheapie tiles. Really cheapie tiles. Find a scrap of either drywall or plywood (do NOT use chip board) and set some tile. You'll learn how to mix and handle the materials before you use your costly stuff. The mortar and thin-set are so cheap that you can just do this and throw it away. You won't have spent much and you'll get the education you need.

Tile truly is between art and science. And it really is about the 'feel' of things ... like the consistency of your mortar and grout.

Feel also comes into play when wiping your grout joints. Wait too long and you pay hell trying to get the haze off the tile. Move too quickly and you pull the grout from the joint. Again, its as much art as science.

I know this is long, but it takes a bazillion words to try to describe what is essentially a pretty simple process.

And most of all ..... have fun! Really. I can't speak for anyone else, but I find tile work relaxing.

Messy, maybe.

But relaxing.

Mud pies for grownups. :)

[SiouxJ]

4. Thanks, I'm gonna print this out to reference

I'll go back to the tile place tomorrow and get their advice on grout and trowel.

Great tip on the nails! I wouldn't have thought of that! The rust I mean, of course! I'll look for some type of rust proof nail, if I decide to go that route.

It's a natural, tumbled stone. I'm working with 14 X 4" strips of the mosaic. There are little triangles, squares and rectangles and I shouldn't have to make more than 4 cuts. My doorway is a 5 sided geometric type thing (two long sides, with two 45 degree angles, going up toward the flat header). I'm going to plan it out so I should only have to cut it at the top but we'll see what happens.

These are great tips. Thanks again!

[Lugnut]

5. I had fun tiling

I tackled my kitchen countertop and backsplash as my first project and it worked out very well. Lowe's was very helpful with their advice about which products to use. The measuring was the most critical part as were the cuts around the switchplates. I used a tile cutting bit in my Dremel which was a life saver. I thought the grouting was the most difficult part but only in elbow grease.

I can't wait to see your pictures.

[SiouxJ]

6. They make a tile cutting bit for the Dremel?

Oh that's so cool! I'm gonna get one of those! I was gonna borrow my friend's tile saw but for the few cuts I need to make on little pieces (like 1" X 1") of tile, it will probably be easier to make with a Dremel. Thanks so much for that info! I never would have thought to look into that.

[Stinky The Clown]

7. The Dremel tile cutter is your frind!

It is very handy, indeed, for fine cuts.

It is a bit with cutting teeth on the side. Very effective.

[Lugnut]

9. Yep

It made those little cuts for receptacles like a hot knife going through butter and I didn't crack one tile in the process. It worked well for those little angle cuts that you sometimes have to make for the sink and stove cut-out areas. I also got a disk for smoothing rough edges where needed. My Dremel has been a life saver with many of hubby's and my projects.

[Warpy]

8. make sure the store gives you the spacers

so that you can line up the tile between mats correctly with the right amount of grout space.

The store I went to didn't do that for me, so I ended up cutting some screen reed for shims. I tiled a corner wall where the woodstove was set to go, and any tile on a vertical surface loves to slip downward. I was frantically cutting shims once I'd started to put the mastic on the wall. Screen reed just happened to be the right thickness, so the job was salvaged.

It's been almost 10 years and the job hasn't degraded one bit. I ended up putting a narrow milled lumber frame around the tile because I couldn't afford trim tiles. It still looks great, too.

[Lugnut]

10. This is the product I used for the edging

I tiled right over the old laminate after giving it a good sanding.



It's been up for about three years and it's still going strong. No pop-offs or slippage.

[SiouxJ]

11. I have photos people

Here you go. I haven't done the grout yet, but in case I screw that up, here's how it looks now, lol. I'm so pleased with how it came out! Now I'm thinking about all kinds of other new tile projects. I think I'm hooked. The hardest part was planning it out. I had to totally re-set two of the strips as they wouldn't fit right on the little short 45 degree angled parts. It took a long time to figure that part out but the cutting and putting it up didn't take long at all. I didn't have any problem with it falling off - even on the header! I didn't end up using my copper nails; didn't need to. The only time it slipped a little was on the side, when I used too much mortar. Once I figured out just the right amount, I had no problem. I had to be really careful (as you can see) to keep the edge clean as there won't be any grout covering the edges because it's a doorway. Also, I had to keep the walls clean on both sides but I did very well.


In the background, you can just make out the existing tile that I had to work with. I think I did ok at finding something that worked with both the color and the style of it. There's a lot of it in there (the whole shower, counter tops and around the bathtub) so I really needed it to go with the new stuff.


I just finished painting both of these rooms as well. This is my faux wall, which is in the Master bedroom.The photo makes it look grainy but it's not. I'm very pleased with how it came out.


In this shot you can see my new lighting too. I'm going for a Greek/Romanesque look.


I actually ended up making about 30 cuts and when I started I was only anticipating making about 6, lol. It became necessary to get the pattern to work.

I'll post more after the grout. The grout is sort of the color of the faux wall so it should look pretty good (I hope).

on edit: oh yeah, btw, I did this all myself! I didn't even have someone help me hold the header part, which I thought I would need. So, you can really do this stuff all by yourself if you need to.

[Stinky The Clown]

12. That looks terrific! .... A tip for the grout process ......

Use caulk (NOT grout) at the angled joints between the sides and the top. Those joints will 'work' over time and the grout, being incapable of accommodating even the most modest of substructure movement, could crack. Use color matched caulk to fill the 'grout line' at the angle joints. Ask your tile supplier if he suggests sanded or unsanded caulk (yes, caulk is available both ways).

Caulk tip ......

Use blue painter's tape to mask the tile faces and wall surfaces adjacent to any caulk lines. Apply the caulk and tool it (usually with a wet finger). You want the caulk to be worked to a near-invisible thickness immediately adjacent to the caulk line, which is the edge of the tape.

As soon as it is tooled, remove the tape and allow the caulk to dry completely before touching it. If you wait before removing the tape, the tape will have stuck to the caulk and will be difficult to remove. If you use no tape, you'll have a sticky caulk mess **everywhere** that is even *more* difficult to remove.

This is, again, one of those things that's far easier to demonstrate than write about. Let me know if this isn't clear.

[SiouxJ]

14. Oh good. I was wondering how to approach it

it's kind of a unique situation because of the exposed edges. I was planning on taping but didn't know to use caulk, not grout. I'm not a very good caulker so tape is a no brainer for me ;-) .

Thanks so much for all the advice. Can't believe it came out so well when I've never been shown how to do this. I just went by the advice I got here and from friends. I didn't even take the little Home Depot demo class! The people at the tile store didn't help much at all either.

Thanks!

[Stinky The Clown]

16. The tile edges

Since the tile is stone, the color is on the sides as well as the face. I'd leave the tile edges exposed and just work grout in the edge gaps as well as the face gaps (grout lines). Be sure to use blue painters tape to protect the walls during grouting. Remove the tape as soon as you've tooled (sponged) the grout.

You'll then reapply tape for the caulking process, as described in my previous post. Don't caulk until the grout is dried and cured (24 hours) so you avoid the risk of messing it up while caulking.

[SiouxJ]

17. That was the one tip the saleswoman at the tile store gave me

-get the stone because the edges are finished. She was actually the most helpful person I met there. The people that worked the orders counter weren't much help at all.

Will do as you advised :-) .

[GOPisEvil]

13. Wow! I'm impressed!

That's really good-looking! :)

[SiouxJ]

15. Hey thanks!

I'm pretty happy with it too.

[Longhorn]

18. That is so beautiful, all of it!

I am mightily impressed! Thanks so much for sharing! You should be very proud of yourself for your good taste, your ability, and your gumption! :D

I'm going to show these photos to my husband, a remodeling contractor, and get an idea of how much money you saved, too!

[SiouxJ]

19. Oh cool!

I'd be interested to find out. I'll take some better shots of the whole thing when I'm done and do another before and after post. I was an art major in college so I'm pretty good at the artsy part, it's the mechanical part that sometimes is daunting but I'm not afraid to make mistakes and try again. I'm also not afraid of power tools which helps ;-) . I took Shop instead of Home Ec. in high school ;-) .

The other cool thing, is my arms have gotten really toned from all that overhead painting and tiling etc. ;-) . Good thing as I got rid of my treadmill because it didn't go with the Greek/Roman theme. I decided to use the great outdoors instead :-) .

[Longhorn]

27. I showed your work to my husband.

He estimates the labor would have cost about $10 a lineal foot. So I'll let you do the math. ;)

[SiouxJ]

28. So I saved several hundred dollars

but I was told at the tile store that it would have been tough to find a contractor who would want to do such a small job so I probably would have had to do it myself in any case. Thanks for the info!

[shanti]

20. very nice!

i like your faux finish too. i just finished doing a faux throughout most of my house - what a job! it sure gives your arms a workout.

[SiouxJ]

21. Well the thing about it is, you can't stop!

You have to keep a wet edge when doing a faux treatment, so you can't stop. Doing a large wall is murder. Especially if you're doing it all by yourself (which I was). I don't think I'd ever attempt more than a single wall unless I had help. That one wall took me two hours and I had to really move. Humidity is very low here in AZ. I think I'll plan any further faux projects for the middle of monsoon season, when the humidity is high. Good for you for doing the whole house! I was exhausted after that two hours on the one wall. It was quite a workout :-) .

Thanks!

[shanti]

22. ah, yes, the wet edge!

i did it myself too, but not in one day. nobody could do a whole house in one day! but, like you, i don't think i'll attempt this big of a project again. your tiling job, tho, has given me hope for my own future kitchen backsplash tiling project.

[Lugnut]

24. Go for it!

Trust me. :D

[SiouxJ]

25. I'm doing a back-splash next

To be honest, the doorway was sort of a trial run. I figured if that went well, I could attempt the back-splash. The doorway was pretty simple in that it wasn't really 3 dimensional, just a straight line. Was looking at my kitchen this morning, and I'd have to work around a window so it's very 3-D. My only problem now is trying to figure out where to stop the back-splash. I mean, I need to find some layouts somewhere to get an idea of what the possibilities are and what looks "right." Maybe I'll post some pictures of the area I'm gonna do and I can take some suggestions on that. :-)

Good luck with yours!

[Lugnut]

23. Gorgeous!

You did such a great job. It looks fabulous.

I thought the measuring and layout was the hardest part too. I can feel that sense of self-satisfaction in your post. You deserve to be proud of yourself. ;)

[SiouxJ]

26. Thanks! Yeah, well, I was kind of intimidated when I first walked

into the tile store. We have this gorgeous tile store ("Arizona Tile"; but they are in states all over the Southwest). I mean, I was pretty blown away by their showroom. Then I went to their website and was even more intimidated (www.arizonatile.com) I felt silly asking so many questions when they obviously deal mostly with big-time contractors most of the time. I mean, I really didn't know where to begin but I pulled it off and that is very satisfying :-) .

[NMDemDist2]

29. superb job! your house looks beautiful and the tile was/is a

wonderful accent!

great job!

[SiouxJ]

30. Thank you!

I finished the grout yesterday so I'll have more photos soon. I'm off to Laughlin for the night so it will have to wait.

Thanks again!