In the wake of Ratzinger's papification

[mrgorth]

I am that much happier with my experimentation with Unity. I cannot believe that the RC Church decided to compete with american fundamentalism.

[RevCheesehead]

1. do you really see the two as the same?

In a strange way, I have a lot more respect for Catholic conservatives than I do for fundamentalists. Primarily, because at least the Catholics still adhere to a theology. Fundies tend to just cherry-pick their own bible verses to support what they want, and condemn what they will.

[Maru Kitteh]

3. Don't you think they both cherry pick?

To be honest really I think we all cherry pick. If you are wearing a garment of mixed fibers or believe menstrual women should be allowed to attend service you are cherry picking too. Or we could move on to the New Testement and discuss Pauls ideas about women in the church, anyway the point is we all take what we will.

Catholic fundies and Protestant fundies really only differ in their methods and performance style I think.

[demosincebirth]

4. I don't think the word "fundamentalist" can be applied to Catholics.

Conservative may apply to many within the Church, but and equal amount
are liberal and moderate.

[regnaD kciN]

5. I think fundamentalists have a "theology" every bit as much...

...as Roman traditionalists do.

And I would argue that it's all based on nostalgia. Nostalgia for different times, true, but nostalgia nonetheless.

For fundamentalists, it's America between 1776 and 1950. For Roman Catholic conservatives, it's for the Holy Roman Empire. But each takes that nostalgic image and shapes Scripture (and, in the Roman case, tradition) to enshrine that allegedly ideal period.

And neither the glory days of "Christendom," nor the good old days of an America where "true reformed Christianity" was enshrined along with the ideals of industry, self-sufficiency, and Horatio Alger capitalism, have much to do with Jesus and his mission to humanity, if you ask me.

[regnaD kciN]

8. And an additional thought...

The other thing I see these groups holding in common is not just nostalgia for some theoretically-ideal time in the past, but a "siege mentality" typified in Ratzinger's words about the "dictatorship of relativism."

On the face of it, the phrase is absurd. One may decry relativistic philosophies, or regard them as mental competitors to the truth of orthodoxy, but to consider those who hold to and advocate them a "dictatorship" is seriously out of touch with reality. One might as well speak of a "totalitarianism of 'tolerance'" or "the jackboot heel of 'civil liberties'." :crazy:

But this is, in fact, something both Roman traditionalists and religious-right fundamentalists share in common. Whether it be the "secularism" decried by Rome or the "secular humanism" fulminated against by televangelists, both see non-Christian (or, in some cases, non-their-kind-of-Christian) world-views as being the tools of large, malevolent forces actively out to exterminate and oppress true Christian believers. (On which, see the number of books on the supposed "war of liberals against Christians," of which Persecution: How Liberals Are Waging War Against Christianity by Rush Limbaugh's brother David is but one particular rabid example.)

The big problem is that, whether you see the power behind these as "Satan" (fundamentalists) or "a force of evil" (Roman traditionalist) it still places you in a world to which the only apporopriate response is "holy war" or "spritual warfare." And the problem with viewing the world in those terms is that, if you see yourself as a beleagured victim forced to fight back, anything becomes possible. After all, it's "self-defense," right? Thus, Christ's message gets distorted to "do unto others before they can do unto you," rather than what he actually taught.

[Maat]

2. How's Unity, Mr. Gorth?

I hope you are enjoying the services.

I'm the one who goes to Church of Religious Science (another New Thought Church).

I also go to my favorite Unitarian-Universalist Church at least once per month (I like the social activism there).

[mrgorth]

6. I've only gone once so far

I'm hoping to go again this Sunday. It just sucks because it's a good 40 min. ride for me and smack in the middle of Sunday morning. I really enjoyed the service though. The music director is like going to a new age concert. Very professional.

[Maat]

7. Cool.

I've been going to Church of Religious Science for over a year and a half; our music is pretty varied - some country-ish, some new-age-ish, and some jazzie-bluesey.

Yes, my CRS church is only 10 minutes away; when I want to visit the Unitarian-Universalist (for the activist side of me), it is 45 minutes away.