OK, I'll ask with all sincerity

[boomboom]

Is there anyone here like me who is "fundamentally" offended, even frightened by the chance that Bush and his ilk claim God speaks through him? Has there ever been a man of faith claiming he speaks for God? Has there ever been a political party who claim the voice of God that hasn't been destroyed? Is there something about politics and money that makes you closer to God? Is there something about political party and money that justifies YOUR judgement of your brethren?

I'm all for God's law. I'm all for God's word. But I believe in ALL of it as belonging to our Lord. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe these very vocal people have been chosen by the Lord. If so, I'll have to account for that on Judgement Day. But I refuse to be judged by any one here on earth. And right now, I am humbled. And frightened. And remain in prayer.

[RevCheesehead]

1. I think I'm beginning to understand Bonhoeffer more.

Bonhoeffer and all the other clergy in Nazi Germany, who stood up to Hitler and paid the ultimate price. There were those who chose to go along with and follow the established government - even using Paul's words - to not be an instigator.

I don't think we're anywhere near that extreme example, but I've never seen anything to compare to this neo-con agenda. What frightens me more is that these people have risen to power with little challenge or accountability. I no longer have faith in our elections system, government, or media.

God help us all.

[shawn703]

2. Here's some Scripture for the rich and powerful

Ex 23:6
6 “You must not deny justice to the poor among you in his lawsuit

Dt 15:7-11
7 “If there is a poor person among you, one of your brothers within any of your gates in the land the Lord your God is giving you, you must not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward your poor brother.
8 Instead, you are to open your hand to him and freely loan him enough for whatever need he has.
9 Be careful that there isn’t this wicked thought in your heart, ‘The seventh year, the year of canceling debts, is near,’ and you are stingy toward your poor brother and give him nothing. He will cry out to the Lord against you, and you will be guilty.
10 Give to him, and don’t have a stingy heart and let not your heart be grudging when you give, and because of this the Lord your God will bless you in all your work and in everything you do
11 For there will never cease to be poor people in the land; that is why I am commanding you, ‘You must willingly open your hand to your afflicted and poor brother in your land.’

Am 5:12
12 For I know your crimes are many and your sins innumerable. They oppress the righteous, take a bribe, and deprive the poor of justice at the gates.


Mic 2:1-3
1 Woe to those who dream up wickedness and prepare evil plans on their beds! At morning light they accomplish it because the power is in their hands.
2 They covet fields and seize them; they also take houses. They deprive a man of his home, a person of his inheritance.
3 Therefore, the Lord says: I am now planning a disaster against this nation; you cannot free your necks from it. Then you will not walk so proudly because it will be an evil time.


Ps 82:3-4
3 Provide justice for the needy and the fatherless; uphold the rights of the oppressed and the destitute.
4 Rescue the poor and needy; save them from the hand of the wicked.


Pr 22:22
22 Don’t rob a poor man because he is poor, and don’t crush the oppressed at the gate


Pr 14:31
31 The one who oppresses the poor insults their Maker, but one who is kind to the needy honors Him.


Pr 23:4-5
4 Don’t wear yourself out to get rich; stop giving your attention to it.
5 As soon as your eyes fly to it, it disappears, for it makes wings for itself and flies like an eagle to the sky.


Mt 16:26
26 What will it benefit a man if he gains the whole world yet loses his life? Or what will a man give in exchange for his life?


Mt 19:21-24
21 “If you want to be perfect, Jesus said to him, “go, sell your belongings and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow Me.”
22 When the young man heard that command, he went away grieving, because he had many possessions.
23 Then Jesus said to His disciples, “• I assure you: It will be hard for a rich person to enter the kingdom of heaven!
24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.”


Mk 10:21-25
21 Then, looking at him, Jesus loved him and said to him, “You lack one thing: Go, sell all you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, taking up the cross, and follow Me.”
22 But he was stunned at this demand, and he went away grieving, because he had many possessions.
23 Jesus looked around and said to His disciples, “How hard it is for those who have wealth to enter the kingdom of God!”
24 But the disciples were astonished at His words. Again Jesus said to them, “Children, how hard it is for those trusting in wealth to enter the kingdom of God!
25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.”

Lu 5:11
11 Then they brought the boats to land, left everything, and followed Him.


Lu 5:27-28
27 After this, Jesus went out and saw a tax collector named Levi sitting at the tax office, and He said to him, “Follow Me!”
28 So, leaving everything behind, he got up and began to follow Him.


Lu 14:33
33 In the same way, therefore, every one of you who does not say good-bye to all his possessions cannot be My disciple.


Mt 6:24
24 “No one can be a slave of two masters, since either he will hate one and love the other, or be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot be slaves of God and of money.


Mt 6:32-33
32 For the idolaters eagerly seek all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them.
33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be provided for you.


Lk 16:14-15
14 The Pharisees, who were lovers of money, were listening to all these things and scoffing at Him.
15 And He told them: “You are the ones who justify yourselves in the sight of others, but God knows your hearts. For what is highly admired by people is revolting in God’s sight.


Lk 6:35
35 But love your enemies, do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is gracious to the ungrateful and evil.


Lk 12:15
15 He then told them, “Watch out and be on guard against all greed because one’s life is not in the abundance of his possessions.”

[elshiva]

3. Thank you, but I don't think that is in the Bush bible, do you?

[boomboom]

4. Not my place to judge....Lord knows....

but if I had to guess, I tend to doubt if Bush ever reads Scripture except when it's written in a speech.

Humility much?

Argh, I'm just as bad as they are. Judgement doesn't belong to us.

[elshiva]

5. I think he does read it... but I don't think he really considers it

[regnaD kciN]

7. Al Franken had a good bit on this in his "Lies..." book

He had read that, after Bush had "accepted Jesus," his friend and political colleague Don Evans took Shrub under his wing and got him attending Evans's Bible-study group, which was supposedly an in-depth, rigorous examination of Luke and Acts on an extended, chapter-by-chapter basis. The point being, of course, that anyone who would go through that study program would emerge well-grounded in those parts of Scripture.

On that basis, Franken interviewed Evans about Luke and Acts. The guy knew practically nothing about them, except that the "parable of the talents" allegedly showed that free-market capitalism was God's will :eyes: . Even then, he misidentified which book said parable came from! If Bush's mentor can do a supposedly intense study of those parts of Scripture, and emerge with no recollection of it except one case where the text could be twisted to give support to a Republican talking point, can we really expect that his protege would do any better?

:shrug:

[superconnected]

6. actually Bush and the Pope terrify me with their chosen by God and

hate filled agendas.

Maybe it's because of history.

Yep, I'm sure it's because of history...

not that the bush worshipper who hold him up no matter what illegal and immoral thing he's done has helped either.

and there's the part where Bush and the Pope are giving athiests and non-christians ammunition to hate all Christians(okay lame as some will do that no matter, while others never will).

But still. yep, I'm scared.