Hello all, I am here for support

[Tsiyu]

and I hope you will accept me even though I am not a Christian.

I would like to apologize for the very vocal minortiy on DU who bash all Christians. Even though I am not a Christian, I disagree with anyone who lumps all people of one faith into the same loathed category.

When I tried to express that, people never read that I was not a Christian, but they claimed I was feeling persecuted. No. Standing up for others is not persecution. If I'm not a Christian, how can I feel persecuted because of their persecution? How stupid is that? I hate what is being done to Iraqis, but there is no way I feel their particular pain. I will still stand up to those who do persecute them, however.

No. I feel sad because one of the Repuke's new memes is that Democrats hate Christians. Well, post a thread defending Christians in GD and see who shows up? All sorts of folks who don't want to discuss bigotry, who don't want to see that ALL Christians are not bad people, they would rather tell Christians they are psycho, argue the merits of the bible, blah blah blah. I am so sorry Christians on DU must face this. It is very sad and telling to me.

But I know this in my heart of hearts - John Kerry is a CHristian, Hillary Clinton is a Christian, and there are millions of wonderful Christians doing good things for this world, even if the bad ones get all the press. So I am just showing my support to those of you who have been judged as bad, psychotic, stupid, racist, and for those of you who have been made to feel responsible for the wrongdoing of all Christians.

I don't share your faith, though I believe in what Jesus taught, and I respect you for carrying on in the face of so much hatred.

[Rainbowreflect]

1. I read your other post & I thank you.

I tried to to make a point yesterday about DUer attacking peoples faith (any faith), but made the mistake of saying I was a Christian so they would know my point of reference.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3958140

It then became all about me somehow claiming the Christians were being persecuted. When all I wanted to say is that it is hurtful & turns people away when people are attacked or insulted for their faith.

I do understand that there are many here on DU that have been persecuted & abused by those who claimed to be Christan & then beat them with their bible. I realize that it will take a lot of time for them to see that there are people of faith who are different. That there are people of faith including Christians who love & support them.

[Tsiyu]

2. They can see it if they want to, but they refuse to see it

Some want to be like provocative little children. Look at Me! I hate the Christians! Look at me!!!!! Come on, all my cool bigot DU friends, let's take out all of our pent-up frustrations on people who had nothing to do with it!!!! This is just a very sad, vocal minority here, but they sure make it rough on anyone who doesn't agree exactly with them.

How the hell is that progressive? How are these sorts any different than the Repukes who don't give a damn about Iraqis because "they're all just Muslims?"

When the Repukes scream that we are not inclusive, they can come here and see that, although I realize that there are so many Christians on here who don't say anything. They just deal with the bigotry and hide what they believe. Right now, I could name off a dozen very "popular" DUers who are Christians, but they won't even defend their own because it's a lost cause here. I don't blame them at all.

Thanks for your response. Again, I apologize for the idiots, and I hope Christians and people of all faiths will come to DU to post and that things will change so that they feel free to express themselves.

[Rainbowreflect]

3. It's weird, but I don't blame them for a lot of their anger.

What I have problems with is there superior attitude.
Like anyone of faith is a silly little child who believes in fairy tales & santa claus.
I am a smart women. I am well read & I have a very curious mind.
I just happen to know in my heart that I am more than a physical being I am also spiritual. I have had experiences that have proved to me that there is more. I cannot prove it to anyone else & should not even try. IMHO That is a journey we each take for ourselves.

[Tsiyu]

4. I am angry at the Taliban for the way they treat women

I have gone off on Southern Baptists for the same reason. But an adult separates the good from the bad, and an adult recognizes that lumping everyone together is wrong.

Personally, I think that the Science-Worshippers are naive. But I don't bash everyone who believes in Psychiatry or modern medicine with their whole hearts. Psychiatry has helped and hurt people, as has modern medicine. I wouldn't abandon either, neither would I claim that the criminal, greedy, misguided elements in Psychiatry or medicine comprise the sum total of those groups.

Some people will say anything to get a few friends. Abusing a whole group of people of a certain faith for the actions of some is not worth it to me, but I guess you've seen that a few here get lots of backslaps and smilies for doing just that.

[RevCheesehead]

5. Oh, are the Christians wars raging again?

This flares up every couple of months. You should have seen it at Easter, when the Pope died, and Terry Schiavo. :eyes:

BHG, I knew before that I loved you, but now I know so even more. :hug:

[Tsiyu]

6. Thanks Rev. I love you too!

It is so fortunate that there are sensible people like you and H2O man and others on this board.

Don't you know that if someone came on here making a blanket statement about Jews, Muslims or Buddhists their thread would be locked?

This morning a post was made that basically implying that all Christians are racists. It should have been locked immediately.

I am sorry to you and all Christians on this board who must endure this kind of bigotry here. I never realized how bad it was til I posted this morning. Otherwise intelligent, progressive people came out of the woodwork to dump on it, rather than discussing the main point of the thread.

Again, I apologize. And thanks for your kind words, Rev. They really DO mean a lot! :hug:

[RevCheesehead]

7. There's a lot of history here.

We're not permitted to talk about how we're treated on the board (see one of Skinner's posted thread), but if you peruse the group, and look for the locked threads, you'll learn a lot. Of course, the really juicy stuff got deleted. :evilgrin:

[Tsiyu]

14. I'll have to do that, but the blood pressure

is WAAAAY up there and I might blow up!

But I will keep picking away at the hatred wherever I see it.

I hope it gets better.

[Wheezy]

8. Oh,

hell. We probably deserve it. ;-)

Wheezy <<----shameful member of the Christian Guilt Complex Guild since 1968

[Tsiyu]

15. No, only the non-tolerant fundies deserve it

There are many Christians doing amazing things for the liberal cause, and I am just stunned by the ignorance and lack of understanding of the many facets of Christianity.

Love your last line. It made me chuckle :)

[GOPBasher]

9. Thanks for the kind words.

I get upset when people make blanket generalizations about ANY faith, not just mine. I also find it funny that some people think all Christians are naive, stupid and ignorant of Science. I majored in physics and graduated Magna Cum Laude. I know science. I'm still a Christian.

But that's really a minority. Most DUers are not like that. Thanks for your support! :hug:

[Tsiyu]

16. You're welcome

Someone last night tried to imply that Christian DUers were trying to make the same claim as the fundies - namely that America persecutes them. I have never seen a Christian DUer claim that they felt persecuted in America.

I have seen many ask for a little more tolerance and respect as human beings on DU.

The fact that seemingly intelligent people try to put the two issues into the same basket tells me that they aren't the intelligent folks I assumed they were. Fortunately, this is only a small minority.
:hi:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

10. I see three basic types among the bashers of Christians:

1) People who have suffered or are suffering at the hands of fundamentalists, Mormons, or extremist Catholics. They still haven't healed.

2) Adolescents who are questioning everything, who are reading a lot of atheist websites that are chock full of misinformation, and who are in general going through a snarky phase.

3) People who are all-around ill-tempered. ONe of the most militant atheists on this board seems to be chronically angry at everyone.

There are plenty of atheists who are cool, most notably Az.

[RevCheesehead]

11. Good observations.

I'd like to add a shout-out to Old Crusoe (who is a lot of fun), and to Ladyhawk, who is willing to listen and question respectfully. And I second your shout-out to Az - definately very cool! :)

[Tsiyu]

18. Yes, kudos to the reasonable folks

who don't get sucked into the childish flame fests.

Imagine if some of these folks expressed the same sentiments ( you're delusional, you're a crackpot, you're a fool for believing in GOD) to their Christian bosses or to someone like John Kerry?

They'd be fired in a heartbeat. And I like to think John Kerry would tell them all where they could get off....

[Tsiyu]

17. I used your words ( paraphrased) on someone's thread last night

But I left off your name so you wouldn't get attacked later.

Here folks were trying to compare the false claim of persecution by the fundies as the same exact substance of the discussions here on DU. My jaw almost dropped to the floor.

But if any believe the DUers here are asking for anything more than a little respect, if any honestly believe Christian DUers are claiming persecution in American society at large ( I have NEVER seen a Christian DUer say or even imply this), we have some real ignorance on DU.

Thanks for your terrific insight. It helped calm me down quite a bit when I imagined the Christian bashers as pimply faced adolescents posting away.....:hug:

[elshiva]

12. I love you buddyhollysghost! RAVE ON!

:loveya: Actually, can't stand atheist-bashing and I am a Christian. Freedom of religion means also freedom from religion. There were a lot of wonderful atheist socialists at one of my high schools who had great ideals and were highly moral people. Back in the day, when Mother Teresa died they were very understanding and admired her work when a lot of the other students just ignored the news.

:yourock:

[Tsiyu]

19. I don't want to see anyone bashed

and I lurve you too.

It's just amazing that it happens here at all, because Democrats are supposed to be more tolerant.

I hope things get better...

[elshiva]

22. I hope so, too!

:loveya: A silly question: Do you believe in ghosts?

[Tsiyu]

24. You silly!

I do believe in ghosts! I do believe in ghosts! And Mercury is retrograde so that's why everyone is so mad at everyone else
(at least, that's what my astrologist friend told me yesterday!)

Hope you are having a great week, Elshiva! :hi:

[elshiva]

25. LOL, but seriously do you believe in Buddy Holly's ghost?

Rave on, thanks!

[Tsiyu]

13. I'm going to bed now and will respond to each of you tomorrow

Thank you all for responding here. It means a lot to me and I hope we can all work together to make DU a positive experience for everyone.

I've got your backs, anyway!

:grouphug:

[Maat]

20. I agree.

I'm technically not a Christian either.

I'm a Unitarian-Universalist of the New-Thought (Religious Scientist) variety (kind of a panentheist - one who believes Spirit/God is an energy within; but that's neither here nor there).

I learn through respectful discussions; I quickly leave threads that are pointless - ones that disrespectfully bait and stereotype people.

(www.rsintl.org , www.uua.org )

I support my Christian friends of the progressive variety wholeheartedly. We can always discuss spiritual concepts respectfully.

A shout-out to all here, and to Az! Hi, Rev; hope you are doing well!

Take care!

Peace,

[RevCheesehead]

21. Maybe we all should call ourselves "People of Faith."

It pains me that there is so much hatred towards those who follow Jesus... and by follow, I mean those who live their lives according to the principles of love and forgiveness.

Nice to see ya, Maat!

[Maat]

23. Take care, Rev!

Good to hear from you!

I do call us 'People of Faith.'

And it disappoints me also thatt people disrespect Jesus, for, at the very minimum, it can be said that he was a Master Enlightened One, whether an individual believes that he has unique divineness or not.

The important thing is the VALUES he emphasized - the ageless wisdom he put forth - like you said, involving principles of love, caring, forgiveness, community, and eradication of poverty.

Extreme attitudes and disrespect aren't good for anyone; in fact, they are a huge danger to our society, whether from militant atheists or militant Muslims or militant Hard Conservative Christians, or militant Jews, or whomever.

Until there is mutual respect and civility, there won't be peace on Earth, will there?

Peace,

[faithnotgreed]

27. good post maat.... best wishes to you too

[BlackVelvet04]

26. That's very nice

of you but I don't take offense any more. The Bible told us to expect persecution and I've learned not to let the words of anonymous message board posters get to me. I never defend myself any more - there's no point. I know, God knows and those who love me know who and what I am and that's all that's important. It's quite sad that so many people are turned off by the rightwing fundamentalists though.

[RFKHumphreyObama]

28. Thank you buddyhollysghost

Your post profoundly moved me and touched me. If there were more people like you in the world and in positions of power, the world would be a much better place :thumbsup: