Can a Christian pledge allegiance to the flag and remain non-apostate?

[Rabrrrrrr]

Or even pledge allegiance to anything, whether it be a flag, a country, an organization, or another person, without violating the rule of Jesus Christ as sole Lord?

I don't think one can - I think claiming Jesus as your lord and savior demands that one cannot, in any way, pledge allegiance, even partially, to anything else, even a spouse or a flag or one's progeny. Jesus Christ first, last, and only.

This is probably my only point of agreement with the Jehovah Witnesses. I refuse to say the pledge of allegiance, and will not sing the national anthem, either, because of it.

What thinketh thee all?

[RevCheesehead]

1. I refuse to say it in church.

And don't even get me started on those friggin' pledges to the flag, and to the Bible. :grr: But yeah, I've always been leery of the pledge - but even more so with the current govt. leaders.

National Anthem? Doesn't bother me - but again, NOT in church.

[Rabrrrrrr]

3. Do you have a flag in your sanctuary?

It really bugs me when I see a US flag in a sanctuary.

And singing the national anthem in church - how utterly apostate! I could just see Paul raising up a hymn to "O Magnificent Rome, O Protector and Great, Surely God has given you all power!" and so on.

I find it disgusting that some churches have the national anthem in their hymnals.

[RevCheesehead]

4. Unfortunately, yes we do.

However, I've had them moved to one of the side walls of the church, next to the window. They're no longer up front, distracting people from our global mission.

[Rabrrrrrr]

6. Maybe over the next year, you can keep moving them closer to the door

and eventually out.

I've heard of ministers doing that...

[RevCheesehead]

8. I had a friend in seminary who moved it every time he was in church.

He'd move the flags to fellowship hall, and someone would move them back into the church. He'd just move it back, without saying a word. This went on the entire time he was appointed to that congregation. :)

[Rabrrrrrr]

9. Move 'em and lock 'em up!

And if anyone asks about it, give them a good theological reason for why flags don't belong in a sanctuary, and that we're pretty much the only country - besides Nazi Germany - that does it.

[Critters2]

17. The Sunday after 9-11

my organist played the National Anthem as the prelude!!!! I was livid!!! After worship, I told her, as politely as I could, that I never wanted to hear another patriotic song in the sanctuary.

So, when she wanted to play "God of our Fathers" sometime later, she called me and sheepishly asked permission. I gave it to her.

:patriot:

[shrike]

2. I'm so damn sick of the Pledge

No offense, but I wish we would just get rid of the thing.

The "Under God" portion is a bullshit issue that takes up far too much time and energy. (The "faith-based" wasting of our tax dollars is one of the clearest cases of outright discrimination that I've ever seen but no one ever gets excited about that one.) I wouldn't care a hoot, personally, if they got rid of the words, but then we'd waste another two years fighting the Right Wing in court AGAIN.

The best thing we could do is get rid of it -- and why the hell should we pledge to a FLAG, anyway? If something must be recited in school, why not the Preamble to the Constitution? At least it means something.

Of course, if any of us fought to get rid of it, we'd spend another six years in court -- Grrrr.

Have I mentioned I'm sick of the Pledge?

[RevCheesehead]

5. Yeah, but here's my problem.

Theologically speaking, the phrase "under God" is the only thing which allows me to say the pledge in good conscience. It's still uncomfortable and so very wrong, but at least in that phrase I can admit that this nation is at least beholdin' to someone.

[Rabrrrrrr]

7. But I don't think we are a nation "under God"

Sure, we are in the sense that all things are, ultimtely, under God's jurisdiction - but the phrase "under God" is a rather triumphalist phrase and a way of saying "We are a Christian-only nation, specially blessed by God Almighty".

Especially given the history of when "under God" was put into the pledge.

Plus, since the very act of pledging allegiance to a flag is to pledge dis-allegiance to God, it's rather ironic to then affirm that the God that one is dismissing.

So for me, the inclusion of "under God" makes the pledge even worse than it already was.

[RevCheesehead]

10. point taken.

Personally, I think "under God" was added to make the pledge more palatable to Southerners. Before, it read "one nation, indivisible." In some places, they're still fighting the Civil War... at least, they are in North Carolina.

[Rabrrrrrr]

11. Nah, it was mostly done to separate us from the commies.

It was a world war ii era thing, putting it in.

But you are right, many places are still fighting the civil war. It's a war that started in the 1700s, saw a few years of actual combat in the late 1800s, and continues to today. Very sad, really.

[supernova]

12. You can thank Eisenhower

for the "under God" bit in the PoA. It was a way to separate the US from the godless commies. :eyes:

The presby church doesn't have a flag in the sanctuary. The church I went to did have one, also an NC flag, but they are kept in the fellowship hall. I think only the Boy Scouts use them regularly for their meetings. That's the only time I ever saw anyone use them. They were just sort of there, like the "Freedom Wall" displays in some public buildings.

Re: The Civil War. The South, whatever you might think if it, is a scarred place -- physically and emotionally. And it takes generations to heal.

[bmbmd]

13. How 'bout this pledge-

"Ipledge allegiance to the Christian flag..."
http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/chrflag.html

[Rabrrrrrr]

14. No, it still seems to be something for weak-minded people

who need a "thing" to cling to, like the Hebrew people and their golden calf in the desert, and who need some kinf od symbolic marker differentiating them from other people.

While I like the Christian flag, pledging allegiance to it is no different than pledging allegiance to a golden calf, a person, or a nation-state.

Our allegiance is to Christ and Christ alone.

[bmbmd]

15. Bingo!

You hit the nail on the head. I pledge allegiance to Jesus Christ, not to his banner or his "chosen race". My secondary allegiance is to the United States of America.

[RevCheesehead]

16. That usually goes hand-in-hand with the pledge to the Bible...

Some chuches add words, to read
"I pledge allegiance to the Bible, God's holy word, inerrant and unchanging.."

I don't worship the Bible - I worship the God who gave it to us.