Should Progressive Christians condemn the Raw Story(Barton) ed on atheists

[papau]

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/The_lefts_own_religious_whackjobs_0422.html
The left's own religious whackjobs

Melinda Barton - Raw Story columnist Published: Saturday April 22, 2006

The religious nutballs on the extreme right have kept us rational lefties so busy that we've neglected an important although onerous duty -- cleaning the atheist whackjobs out of our own attic,
======================================================================
EXCERPTS FROM POSTED RESPONSES TO BARTON OP-ED

Melinda Barton HAS provided us with evidence that there is at least one religious whackjob on the left.

If you arrive at despotism or bigotry by atheism or theology, all that's certain is that you're a despot or a bigot.

"Can't we all just try to get along?"... Feelings are a vague thing. Civility solves the problem...

Socially, they're a pain in the ass. They can be more obnoxious than any born again Christian about button-holing you at a social event to diatribe about how mistaken they believe you are in your beliefs. They are a threat to happy parties everywhere. At least the Christians know when they're "witnessing," but these poor idiots don't even seem to know when they're doing it. Okay, okay, not all of them, but that vocal extremist chapter. With these atheists, any conversation about religion quickly becomes an argument. They approach religion with a debunking mindset that is the antithesis of an open mind. Like the extremist Christians, they are extremely impassioned in their views. They get very angry when they talk. It is this extremely emotional proselytizing that does make you wonder, in spite of all evidence to the contrary, if these people would willingly do harm to those who don't share their beliefs (I'm sorry, lack of beliefs), if they only had the power to do so. What the (extreme) Christians and the atheists SAY is different, but the tenor in the voice is so familiar....So what do we do about the atheists? Tell them to tone down the anger. They scare people with it. As Emma Goldman said, "If I can't dance, I don't want to be a part of your revolution."

poorly constructed/researched - Embarrassingly shabby work.

... The real problem with the left in America is post-modernist and all of this "all ideas are equal" crap. ...

(You say)..this piece is simply embarrassing. You've lost a reader....You'd disagree with ONE article on a website that you otherwise have enjoyed, and it sends you running off - If that's not reactionary, cult-like behavior, I don't know what is.

...I thought the piece was way off--until I read the comments. Turns out, there are some serious atheist whackjobs out there! An atheist

1) no mass movement of powerful, angry atheists, 2) this trope that the left is wacky, angry, and anti-religious is a right wing talking point that has little validity but much political utility--for the right.

"MEAN LADY SAID WE COULD BE WRONG! I'LL NEVER VISIT RAW STORY AGAIN! I'M SO SMART!"Good riddance to mean spirited, hateful, intellectually dishonest garbage. Please, please, never visit again--or if you do, please leave the comments forms free for the rest of us to maneuver without your hateful, stupid, pointless pollution.

.. Attempts to classify this as persecution of people of a particular belief system are purely delusional straw men, ignoring the content of the piece to place themselves in the preferred position of victim.

I had no idea so many atheists were such babies. I love how when their hateful rants are torn down logically, all Nancy can do is say she's never coming here again. It's really pathetic.

Denial is not refutation

I don't even want an apology for dismissing thoughtful dissent as "arrogance."

classic religious bigot... Barton illustrates how traits of intolerance and bigotry are not only inherent to all religious adherents, but needed for indoctrination and continued adherence to their religious dogma.

"Although I disagree with atheist precepts, I have respect for the logic and reasoning upon which it is based"...you do not understand logic and reasoning

[realisticphish]

1. Self delete

[RevCheesehead]

2. The idea that there are fundamentalist atheists is not news.

It's one of the main reasons I stay out of Religion/Theology forum here.

However, our mission statement for this group is one of supporting one another - liberal Christians and Progressive People of Faith.

[realisticphish]

3. I agree

which is why I deleted my previous post. I still stand by what I wrote, but that stuff is for R/T, not here

:hi:

[RevCheesehead]

4. Hey, you!

:hug:

[realisticphish]

5. how goes the preaching

:D

It's been kind of quiet in here, I wondered if there had beena rapture, and I wasn't invited :shrug:

[RevCheesehead]

8. If the Rapture has happened,

then you and I will be needing each other. :scared:

[realisticphish]

9. Never, you Heathen Methodist!

:D

:hug:

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RevCheesehead]

7. I think the problem arises whenever we try to put people in groups...

as if they were a unified voice. I have some friends on this site who are atheists and pagans. We get along just fine, and have never spent time arguing or belittling each other's beliefs. Then there are the ones who have been added to my ignore list.

It's all about respect. From my experience, fundamentalists of ANY variety: Christian, Muslim, atheist, or whatever, don't spend much time listening to anybody, because they're utterly convinced they're right. And there's no use in arguing with a brick wall. Besides, somewhere in my bible, it says not to cast your pearls before swine. O8)

[realisticphish]

11. hear, hear!

"From my experience, fundamentalists of ANY variety: Christian, Muslim, atheist, or whatever, don't spend much time listening to anybody, because they're utterly convinced they're right. And there's no use in arguing with a brick wall."

:applause:

[Maat]

12. Exactly, Rev.

My pastor has reminded me of that several times.

[realisticphish]

10. I feel your pain

I REALLY do. There are many times when I want desperately to grab them and say "if you don't want generalizing about yourselves, don't generalize about us."

But i know it wouldn't do anything. So my philosophy is to be a rational and tolerant person, and then surprise the hell out of atheists when I tell them that I'm a Christian. Maybe through example, I can change an attitude. But argument has never converted anyone worth converting, in my book.

I've dealt with the anger many a time, believe me

[Kat45]

13. You're right: through example.

A number of my friends and acquaintances are atheists or agnostics. They know I'm a Christian, and through my example, my behavior, they know that I'm don't fit their view of what Christians are. We get along just fine, and my example shows them that not all Christians are the RW fundie nutcases.

[realisticphish]

14. yeah

ditto with my friends. When they see that I'm not some whacko who wants everyone who isn't a Christian to die, it makes them think twice. And that's all I ask :shrug:

[shrike]

15. I've met some of them personally

at a local progressive gathering.

Funny thing is, they fight with each other, not me. (Of course I simply refuse to fight with them, so they back right down.)
The ones I've met were raised in fundamentalist families. I have to wonder if their black and white thinking is a socialized response to life in general or even genetic.

OTOH, I've met a fallen away Catholic, active in the local anti-war coalition, who no longer believes in God. Yet his protest companion is usually an old priest friend. His wife, he says, is the best person he knows and she is quite devout, so he will never belittle people of faith. He and I get along just great, and last time I saw him he gave me a hug.

[Critters2]

21. I know some of those "black and white" thinking kinds of atheists

also from fundie backgrounds. I'm amused that they see themselves as so different from the RW counterparts, and I see them as so similar.

A UU Christian friend describes it this way: Fundies on the right say "The Bible's either all true or none of it's true...so it's all true". Fundies on the left say "The Bible's either all true or none of it's true, so none of it's true. Both sides lack imagination.

I'd say that's about right.

[davidinalameda]

16. I got suckered in to a "debate" with some of the more vocal atheists

on the R/T board about the role of atheism in communism and how people were killed by an atheistic state

I'm sorry that I posted anything in that thread

[Critters2]

17. All of this reminds me of one of my ex's UU friends

who told me "You're too bright to be a Christian". I'm sure he meant it as a compliment. But that's not how it felt on the receiving end.

The Rev Critters
bright AND Christian

[realisticphish]

19. that general attitude

is what pisses me off more than anything. usually if someone brings that up, i just walk away. i refuse to debate anyone who says things like that.

[Rabrrrrrr]

18. Why condemn it? She's right - extremists of all stripes are fucknuts.

Whether Christian or athiest or Muslim.

Fuck 'em. Fuck each and every one of 'em. Progressives should be on the side of this writer, because progessives should be anti-extremism in all things, even anti-progresive-extremism.

Anyone who thinks that this story should be condemned is a thin-skinned emotionally immature athiest, or a well-meaning-but-misguided liberal.

[Critters2]

20. Fucknuts

Great word

How can I use that in a sermon....hmmm...

[Rabrrrrrr]

22. You should use it in every sermon!

Especially when referring to your parishioners. :-)

What denomination/kind of minister are you?

[okasha]

23. Barton's acquired a stalker.

I thought the article was off the wall till I saw the reaction, which seems to be continuing. Of 38 responses to Barton's blog at http://liberalsinexile.blogspot.com, where she gives some of the background to the piece, 24 are by the same obsessive, unhinged-sounding person. A bit scary, that.

[Critters2]

24. Wow!

Minnie Mouse has issues! :yoiks:

[regnaD kciN]

26. Let me attempt a distinction between a regular poster and an extremist...

A regular poster, whatever their position, thinks it's discriminatory if their side is referred to in a derogatory manner.

An extremist, whatever their postion, thinks it's discriminatory if the other side is referred to in a non-derogatory manner.

:eyes:

[regnaD kciN]

25. I agree. Why deny it?

There are athiest "fundamentalists" on the left (and, probably the right and center as well). I can no more deny that (or condemn an article pointing it out, which comes to the same thing) than I can expect progressives, out of "politeness," to deny that there are any fundamentalists on the right.

There are both atheist "fundamentalists" (all religion is evil) and militant Christianity-bashers (only Christianity is totally evil, other religions are merely dubious) on the left -- and if you don't think that, you haven't ventured out much beyond this DU forum.