Prayer question...

[huskerlaw]

I'm watching Jesus Camp (yeah, I know) and one thing, of many, that has struck me is how they use prayer.

There's a scene in which a young girl and her family are bowling and she fervently prays for Jesus to give her a strike.

In another scene, the head of the camp goes through the auditorium the day before camp starts and prays over all of the equipment, that they will not malfunction. And on, and on...these people pray about everything.

Frankly, it disgusted me. Jesus doesn't give a shit if you bowl a strike. And how self-important can you be to think that He does? It's another in a long, long list of things that evangelicals do and/or believe that, to me, flies directly in the face of what the bible tells us to do.

Or am I overreacting? Is it totally ok to pray to God/Jesus about literally EVERYTHING...or should that be reserved for things that are actually somewhat important?

Thoughts?

[Rabrrrrrr]

1. Or the jackoffs who pray before a football game that they win.

Shitbrains.

A more faithful prayer would be "God, give me the skills I need to do this..." or "God, give me the concentration I need to...". Or "God, thank you for the skills you have blessed me with". Or "God, I thank you that I have arms and feet to bowl with, money to come here, and family to enjoy it with", or something like that. But "God, give me a strike" or "God, give me money"... gimme gimme gimme gimme.

I am sick and tired of these Jesus Crispy fuckwipes praying for stuff: material stuff or wins or successes or money or a new boat or a bicycle or a wife or a husband or ... And I am equally sick and tired of the fuckbags who say that God gave them the great big house because of their faithfulness, or blessed them with money because of their prayers or faithfulness.

Such crap. It don't work that way.

As to your question about whether one should pray only for important things - in many respects, whatever we're praying for IS important to us, even if it is a new boat. And of course we should all pray for those things that are important to us.

But, I like to think of it (and this is as it has been on my faith journey), that as we mature and grow in our faith, the material stuff trails away... the personal needs stuff trails away... and I spend more time praying for the needs of others, and most of the prayers I say for myself are more in the lines of "I am thankful for all that you have deemed fit for me to have, and give me faith to accept whatever your will is in this world and the courage to mold myself more to your will, not my will". Just as the Lord's prayer says: "your will be done".

And it's that latter stuff that I don't hear so much from the Jesus Crispies, but which I *do* hear a lot from the mystics and those who have given up their egos and the pursuit of stuff: the mother theresas, Thich Nhat Hanhs, Dalai Lamas, Franciscans, Henri Nouwens, etc. (obviously, these are different religions, but at the highest level they are very similar in execution: not trying to mold or force the world (or God) to their needs, but trying to mold themselves to the needs of the world and the will of God).

As one moves closer to God, more aligned to Jesus' path, the less one asks for silly things (which aren't, necessarily, always silly at the time to the person praying them) in prayer, and asks more and more for change within one's self.

At least, that's been my experience, and, I think I can fairly safely say, the experience of the mystics and others who have aligned themselves very closely with God.

And so "God, give me a strike!" becomes "God, let me bowl the best that I can bowl, and let me be fully satisfied with that, because it is to your glory that I use the full capacity of what you have given me, and let me be fully alive in this moment to know your presence through this ball, through these people, and in me".

[huskerlaw]

4. Thanks for your response

I agree with much of what you said. Although even "God, let me bowl the best I can bowl..." is, to me, obnoxious and self-centered.

But then, I guess I believe in a God that doesn't really intervene. It's the only way I can square up a loving God with one that allows things like yesterday's events at Virginia Tech to occur. But that's another conversation altogether, isn't it?

[usregimechange]

2. Reserved and in private the way Jesus taught.

although the gov should never get involved in making sure it is only private.

[huskerlaw]

5. Agreed.

Although if people kept prayer reserved and in private, the government wouldn't need to worry about it, would they? ;)

[TreasonousBastard]

3. Prayer is simply the way we communicate with God, and...

if all we do in that communication is beg for stuff, it's the same as whining to anyone else for stuff. We don't know how much patience God has for whining beggars, but it most likely is not a lot.

We can assume, however, that God knows that if he grants you the stike and you win the bowling tournament, someone else will have lost the tournament. Perhaps someone else who deserves to win more than you do, and could even win without Divine intervention.

God isn't Santa Claus and prayer isn't for whining and begging. Prayer is far more important than that.

[huskerlaw]

6. God isn't Santa Claus...

I like that. And I completely agree.

[Fran Kubelik]

7. Very well said.

[StoryTeller]

8. re: Prayer Question

The idea of some things being too unimportant to God is actually more of a western/Greek mindset. Compartmentalizing is something that came from the Enlightenment, not so much from Hebrew or eastern thought.

The Celtic Christians had this figured out, I think. They had prayers for milking their cows, prayers for lighting their fires, prayers for their cooking pots, etc. They didn't separate their lives into different compartments or rank what is important enough to bother God with and what is mundane enough to handle on their own. They recognized God's hand in everything and saw the interconnectedness of all of life, and their prayers flowed from that awareness.

God is a relational being, and as cliche as it has become to say this, the point of Christianity really is to bring people back into a relationship with God. And because God knows us intimately and loves us, I believe that He does indeed care about and want to hear about what is important to us. I've sent a few pretty trivial prayers His way over the years--for things from "please help me find my child's shoes because...wouldn't you know it, I'm running late and they're lost AGAIN" to sheepishly asking Him if He'd please open up a parking spot for me downtown on a cold day so I don't have to walk a miserable 10 blocks in nasty weather. I really have never felt any sense of divine displeasure for these trivial requests.

But I also talk to God about things in my daily life that I'm struggling with or pondering. Or things that fill me with joy. It's not just the requests that are trivial. Sometimes it's something as small as thanking God for how beautiful a tree looks outlined in snow. Or remembering to thank Him when my daughter climbs onto my lap and squeezes me, insisting I'm the most beautiful mom in the world. Those little moments of perfection are really as trivial as the lost shoes and the scant parking. But they're all His doing anyway, and it's the little things in life that sometimes become the most meaningful.

The third area of trivial things that are part of my relationship with God is learning to listen. Something as unimportant as that little voice in my heart that says half-way through the sermon, "You need to turn off your cell phone." And there's been times when I listen and do it, and not five minutes later, I've gotten a phone call that would have been an embarrassing disruption to the church service. Or other times when I've felt like I really should email a certain friend of mine but didn't, and then found out later she'd been having a rough day and if I'd listened to that inner voice, I would have been able to encourage and help her.

I view it all as part of developing a relationship with this God that I worship and love. I don't think God sees anything as trivial in itself. But I do think He sees straight to our hearts to identify the bigger picture and motivations that fuel our requests. And I think He's far more interested in using the little daily things in our lives to shape our character to more resemble Him than He is in whether or not we always get our own way.

So, while there's times He does give me a parking space when I ask for it, there's other times when I guess He figures the walk is what I need. Or when He'd rather I learn to plan ahead rather than scrambling for lost shoes at the last minute. :) And I figure submitting to God means being okay with that and letting Him truly be the sovereign being in this relationship instead of my divine Vending Machine.

However, I do think that those of us in the evangelical community have become so comfortable with the idea of God as our friend that we actually take advantage of that friendship by becoming demanding and petty in ways that we never would to our human friends.

And you're right--a lot of these types of prayers are very self-centered. I don't think it offends God, but I do think that when He responds back to us, it's in ways that give us the opportunity to grow and mature and leave those selfish ways behind us. He may not be particularly concerned if that child gets her strike in bowling or not, but I bet He's VERY concerned with whatever is in her life that is making her care so deeply about it. And whether or not He gives her what she's asking probably has a lot to do with what He knows she REALLY needs.

I liked what some of the other people have already posted--as we grow up spiritually, a lot of the trivial things matter less and less to us. Maybe it's because God uses those things to gently prod us to mature, if we allow it.

[54anickel]

9. Wow, thanks Story Teller. You've given me a lot to chew on...n/t

[huskerlaw]

10. Thank you...

you've definitely made some interesting points and given me a lot to think about.

I appreciate you taking your time to respond so thoughtfully.

[elshiva]

11. YES!

On edit: When I was at college, Sister Eileen, a professor used to "lay her hands on the copier."
She is a really sweet woman, she calls herself a progressive and supports women's rights and gay rights.
It's just that if you are in jam, where people are depending on you to give them information, why not bring it to God, if you are so inclined? This is just an example to say that it's not only conservatives who pray to God all the time. God is omnipresent so he has time for EVERYTHING.

About asking for material things: a person needs a mode of transport and/or a house to survive. God cares about our survival. Of course, God does not want us to be greedy and mess up creation....

About asking for a wife/husband: God wants you to have good relationships with people

About asking for a strike at bowling: God has a sense of humor, too!