i had never actually looked at my church's website

[realisticphish]

www.elca.org (evangelical lutheran church of america), and i was VERY suprised. i dont restrict my views to the churchs, but i was pleased to see how open minded the positions were.

on abortion, it said that it is very devisive, even within the church, and that any debate must be in a respectful manner, taking account of both the child's life and the women's right to her body. the only solid position was that abortion should be stressed as a last resort.

on homosexuality, they again did not have a firm position, because of the variety of opinions within the church. but it said that we as christians should respect all others, regardless of sexuality, and help them if they feel troubled. it also defined marraige as the joining of "two persons", which is a hopeful sign to me

i am very pleased at this; hopefully, my fellow liberals can look at this and understand that this is only one of many denominations of Christianity that is truly open to all who wish to enter

:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat

[davidinalameda]

1. but ...

http://www.365gay.com/newscon05/01/011305lutherans.htm

Saying church unity is at least as important as resolving disagreements over sexuality, a panel recommended Thursday that the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America officially maintain its position against same-sex blessing ceremonies and ministers involved in gay relationships, but "tolerate" those who believe and act otherwise.

[realisticphish]

2. yes

but, thats what i WANT in a religion; flexibility. if its parishoners or ministers believe differently from the official position, it is totally acceptable. while i would much rather a strong support for gay marraige, i understand their theological stance against it, however much i may disagree. but the fact that they do not condemn anyone who believes otherwise is a huge improvement.

I definately do not like the idea of prohibiting homosexual ministers who have partners, but it is at least a step in the right direction

in any case, it was a panel advisory, not an official church position. a lot of panels say a lot of things


:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat

[GOPBasher]

3. Hey I checked out the site. Can I ask you a question?

I've been trying to find a denomination that's more liberal. I think I might try going to an evangelical Lutheran church now, because of the website. I'm glad to see what you quoted, that they're pretty liberal on abortion and homosexuality. Also, it seemed from their website that they're open to salvation for non-Christians. That's something I want. I can't come to believe that God is playing some game of "Will you pick the right religion. If not, you're eternally fucked!" I can't believe in a god like that. So I look for denominations that don't believe that.

Can I ask, Am I right in thinking that they believe Christ died for all, including non-Christians? That's what I read into it. Can you tell me if I'm wrong?

Thanks.

[realisticphish]

4. well, im not a lutheran theologist

so take this with a grain of salt. but i get the idea that this is what is thought (its what i think, not 100% sure for the church): jesus died for all mankind, as long as they are good people. of course, the church tries to get more people to believe in christ, but you aren't damned if you dont line up perfectly. in fact, i dont think there IS a damned in our church, my pastor sure has never mentioned it.

a lot of this stuff differs from congregation to congregation as well

:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat

[GOPBasher]

5. Thanks for that response! n/t