Fellow UCCs (and friends), are you bothered by reaction to Obama's faith?

[Critters2]

I'm amazed at how many people seem to think he's a fundamentalist, or are bothered that he's at all religious. It reminds me that people know nothing about the UCC. And yes, some confuse us with the Church of Christ

Of course, it doesn't help that he hobnobbed with that McClurkin jerk :banghead:. But one thing you learn living in the Illinois Conference is the tension between the African American and glbt communities. It's easy to alienate one group by leaning toward (pandering to?) the other. I don't think a lot of people know what a tightrope it can be.

So, do others find yourselves trying to defend Obama's faith, and the UCC? Or do you just ignore it? Or some other option?

[Rabrrrrrr]

1. I am dismayed at the vitriol being directed toward Trinity,

and the fucking bags of shit who claim that Obama isn't *really* Christian because he's UCC, OR the ones who keep perpetuating the lie that's a fundamentalist radical Muslim.

And also pissed off at the blacks who hate him for being gay friendly, the gays who hate him for being McClurkin friendly, and blah blah blah bullshit blah blah.

It's too bad that we, as a people, can't grow up into greater maturity and be more amenable to the idea that someone might choose to have friends that we dislike, and stop requiring these constant purity bullshit tests.

Plus all the jackasses who call themselves journalists who can't tell the difference between the UCC and Church of Christ and other churches.

One article in a major New England newspaper (Baltimore, I think; maybe Boston) kept referring to Trinity UCC as Trinity Church and Trinity something else - I can't find the article now. Damn.

But it's fucking sad, and no wonder that nothing of any importance ever gets talked about in this country - the "journalists" can't even be bothered to do easy fact checking on fucking names and other things; we certainly can't expect them to bother with higher level facts.

x(

[theredpen]

2. I'm bothered by the "Obama is pandering to the fundies" crap I've read

One thing I'd like to highlight is the role that the Christian religion has in the American Black community (and "black" here is code for "former slaves and their descendants").

The slaves were freed by the 13th Amendment, but white society immediately went into overdrive trying to keep the former slaves de facto slaves. Convict lease systems sprang up in several states and created something even worse than slavery — especially in Texas. Slave owners had an incentive to keep their slaves healthy; convict lessees had no such requirement. And it wasn't just Confederate states; Indiana immediately passed a law levying an exorbitant $500 fine for anyone who paid a black man to work.

The 14th Amendment got rid of the most explicit attempts to keep slavery alive — such as the Indiana law — but for a hundred years American blacks were denied access to their rightful American freedoms, or the promise of the "American Dream." There was only one positive thing which the blacks were allowed to have (grudgingly) and that was Christianity. For decades, the only place where any number of blacks could peaceably assemble was in a church.

I don't think I need to explain this history any further; the point is that I find a lot of the howls of outrage about Obama's relationship with black faith communities to be ultimately racist. This implicit racism is being perpetrated by "liberals" who wouldn't dare attack civil rights icons such as MLK, Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson for their religion even though all three of those men are clergy. But when Sharpton and Jackson ran for president there was no "danger" of them winning the nomination. Now that Obama is rising in the polls, it's suddenly unseemly for the black candidate to have strong ties to the faith community. :eyes:

As far as the McClurkin thing goes, Obama criticized the black community for "abandoning its gay brothers and sisters" in a great speech delivered to a black congregation. I haven't had the stomach to wade into GDP to see what the reaction to that was, but I'll bet it was dismissed as "pandering" or whatever. Feh.

We all need to shout down the Christian Nationalists and the other organs of right-wing intolerance that cloak themselves in the mantle of "Christianity," but I don't understand what some people on the left think they're going to accomplish by trying to establish the left (and the Democrats) as the partisans of "getting rid of religion." Is a country that is over 85% religious really going to want to be governed by a party that considers them morons and pariahs?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

5. As a historical side note:

I recall seeing a documentary about the civil rights era (was it one of the episodes of Eyes on the Prize? Maybe) in which a black man from the North talked about getting into trouble on a visit to the South because he wore a coat and tie. In the town he was visiting, the only black men who were "allowed" to dress up like that were the ministers and teachers, except that other men were "allowed" to dress up when attending church services, weddings, or funerals.

[theredpen]

3. Check out this post in the humor thread

I thought it was a nice funny spin on all of the hand-wringing over Obama's religion: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=283x675

[theredpen]

4. They LOCKED that humor thread

Was I the only person who found that humor post about Obama to be funny?

The thread was locked! Jeebus! You can't even joke about the slams on Obama's religion or some people (I assume there were alerts) get their panties in a wad.

Sigh.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

6. That was a particularly clueless lock

:eyes:

[Critters2]

9. So, attacks on religion are okay, joking about it is not.

:wtf:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

7. To answer mycritters' original question

There is a set of posters on this board whose attitude toward religion, and Christianity in particular, is "if you want to beat a dog, you can always find a stick," as my old-country grandmother would have said.

So a self-ordained nutcase in a syncretistic cult in Nigeria accuses children of witchcraft, and the response is, "See what happens when religion rots your mind. Look at the evil that the missionaries brought to Africa." Never mind that belief in witchcraft is found in every part of the world and has a long history in Africa.

There are some GLBT people who have been badly hurt by churches, so it's not surprising that they should bristle at Obama's apparent friendship with McClurkin (poor taste in friends, obviously). But there is that cohort that seems to take every positive mention of Christianity as "cramming religion down my throat" (the atheists' favorite cliché by far), and I just have to ignore them, because to do otherwise is to invite a pile-on.

[kwassa]

8. I'm bothered by many reactions to faith here ....

though my skin has become thick enough that I now ignore most of it.

I was thinking the other day that the only form of ignorance that seems acceptable among progressives is ignorance of religion, which in some cases seems to be lauded. Being proud of one's ignorance about anything is absurd, but this is one area where people think they know a lot about it without ever studying it. How they can arrive at that conclusion is beyond me.

What really bothered me about Obama was the deliberate misinterpretation of his church's positions, and then those misinterpretations projected onto Obama himself. Not quite as bad as the phony "muslim" email, but not far away.

[skater314159]

10. As a working chaplain...

... who has taught Evolutionary Anthropology as well as other courses at a University level, I can tell you that there is a LOT of misinformation and willful ignorance in America surrounding religion.

Unfortuantely, some of the worst perpetrators of this misinformation are "believers" who know little or nothing about the history of thier chosen faith, yet speak openly about it. These individuals perpetrate the stereotype that we, as Liberal and Progressive Christians - and all people of faith are working against. I have found though that THESE people are willing to learn usually, and when given resources or information, they make use of it and ammend their behaviour.

The "militant athiests" of which you speak are/were typically raised in an evangelical,or in my recent experience, Southern Baptist or "Mega-Church"/ Non-Denominational church. They knew little if anything about the vastness of the Christian life - much less the entire religious nature of humanity throughout history. They are largely very insecure, and as such I have observed them try to act as if they are superior to others to build up thier own self-worth. These individuals are typically angry over having "been duped into belief" and for not experiencing what those around them in the church experienced. Rather than seeking a different path, they attack with jealousy and vehemence. Instead of acting as rational adults and trying to learn what else is out there, they react in anger, hatred, and rage against all people of faith, thinking that they know everything there is to know about faith, and that their experience is somehow representational of all faith experiences (which is really arrogant and ignorant on their part.)

Don't let the bigots get you down. :loveya: Hopefully by your stregnth and exmple, you can show them another way. Show them the way of love and respect, even if they have neither in thier dealings with you... for when you do so, you follow the teachings of Christ himself.

Peace!
:hippie:

[Kat45]

11. As far as DU is concerned, I think it's because there are a lot of atheists here

And a good number of them never pass up an opportunity to bash religion. In the world outside of DU--ie the real world--I'm not sure what's going on about Obama's faith. I think that a lot of progressives (in particular) are really sick of the religious right and thus have a knee jerk reaction when anyone talks about his or her faith. They're afraid that any religious person will try to impose his religion on them and make laws taking away some of their rights.

It doesn't help the situation that the religious right has been pretty much the only Christian or religious group that puts its ideas out there and gets attention for it; they give the impression that they are the only Christians and that they speak for all Christians, neither of which is true. But they got their message out well, because a lot of people believe it.

I also think that some people may be suspect of--and afraid of--Obama's religion because his church is specifically a black church and it emphasizes blackness.