Maybe I've been UCC too long, but I'm amazed at my Evangelical friend.

[Critters2]

I have this friend, a Baptist pastor, and we're very close. Or so I thought. But last week she assured me that my Jewish cousin, who died at the age of 30, is in hell.

Then, last night, we were talking on the phone and watching the convention. She says, "I don't know what all the fuss is about. It doesn't matter how people vote or what the parties do. Whoever God wants to be president will win."

Me: What?! Her: I believe in the sovereignty of God. Nothing happens without God's approval.

So, I asked her if she thought God wanted Hitler to be Chancellor of Germany. Yep, that's exactly what she thinks. I pointed out that more than 9 million people died because "God wanted Hitler to be chancellor of Germany." Then she told me about some friend of hers who is in "Jews for Jesus", whose family fled Germany during the Holocaust. If he hadn't come here, he wouldn't have converted to Christianity, and "led so many people to Christ". :wow: 9 million dead people=one Jew for Jesus. Oh, yeah. That's a god I could worship.

I feel like I never even knew her. When we were serving in the same town, we had lunch together like everyday. We'd take care of each other's dogs when we went out of town. We got our churches to do VBS and stuff together. How could I never have known that she had these wacky ideas?

Sometimes I think that growing up in a progressive family in a progressive church didn't really prepare me for the real world. There are some REAL crazies walking around loose out there.

Still, the hardest part is her pronouncing that my cousin is in hell. I think that's a little above her pay grade, to use Barack's term. Geez.

[Rabrrrrrr]

1. So then she should have shut her fucking mouth when Clinton was in office.

"God put him there, you heretical fuckwit. God wanted him to have that blowjob. Ken Starr is going against the will of God."


* of course, you said nothing about what she did or felt during Clinton's time in office, but I think it's pretty safe to assume that she was negative toward him, and found him to be close to the anti-christ.

[Critters2]

3. Yeah, she wasn't a fan.

Apparently, God wanted Bill to enjoy himself. So, yeah, she should've been happy it was going on.

And 9/11, what was that? We had lunch that day, and she was deeply concerned about what it meant for the country. But what's the point of worrying, if God's in charge?!

[Rabrrrrrr]

2. I mean, this just exemplifies the problem with fundamenalist/evangelical thinking

In that, first, it involves very little thought.

They just say shit, but they don't think it through - all those idiot pastors out there who go to "Bible Schools" or illegitimate and unaccredited "seminaries" aren't learning shit. They're getting as much of a true theological education as a tech school teach actual engineering. Which is to say, nothing.

It's all superficial. Soundbites and platitudes, none of which they ever stop to think what those might mean.

I bet she's never thought about what it means to say that "God chooses America's president".

She just believes it, and her thought on the matter ends with the period.

And she clearly has no idea what it really means to say "Nothing happens without God's approval." Not even close to a clue.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

4. During the Reagan administration, I came up with the term "grade school patriots"

It refers to the type of people whose ideas of patriotism begin and end with the Pledge of Allegiance, the idea that all soldiers are "serving their country" and "fighting for freedom," and the idea that dissent makes one a "Communist."

There are also grade school theologians. "Christians in heaven, everyone else in hell. God's in charge, so if you're good, you'll be fine, and if you're bad, watch out."

:puke: to both sentiments.

[RevCheesehead]

5. You forgot flag lapel pins.

:P


:hi:

[RevCheesehead]

6. she's a pastor?

She never read Romans?? :banghead:

I'm sorry she said that to you. How utterly insensitive.

Look at it this way: she was in your life at a time when you needed her friendship. But you've moved on, and so has she. I'm glad she could be a friend for you then, but sad that she apparently doesn't know you.

God will bring you new friends. :hug:

[GreenPartyVoter]

7. Most of the Baptists whom I have met who have these sorts of views are the

kinds that don't allow women to even be pastors. No wonder you were blindsided like that. She's a stealth "True Christian TM"

Sorry that she was so hurtful about your cousin. :hug: Fortunately, you know better than to believe in that kind of "One True God TM"

[Kajsa]

8. Hi Critters,

I'm so sorry you had to hear that nonsense, regarding your
cousin especially!

:hug:

It's sad when someone thinks the definition of being a "good Christian"
requires forfeiting critical thinking skills. God wants us to have those, imho.

I would not have much to do with her in the future.

She's not going to change.

Hang in there,Critters.

:pals:

[shimmergal]

9. Don't believe her!!

It's simple. Nobody here knows who's in heaven (or even if there IS a heaven), for sure. "The-only-road-to-salvation" trope maybe served Christianity well in its formative centuries -- it was a good selling point in a society where so many religions competed. But it's long ago outlived its usefulness--or its validity. IMO, of course (but even our Presiding Bishop won't make claims like your friend does.)

I'm playing with the idea of a science fiction story where "impersonating a deity" is against the law. I do believe it's very arrogant for any human to claim to know such things.

OTOH, maybe she should just be pitied. Is she _that_ freaked out by Judaism? Or by simply being uncertain about why things happen in the world?. Some people will believe most any trash rather than come face-to-face with uncertainty.

[Critters2]

10. I would love to read that sci-fi story! nt

[shimmergal]

11. Thanks!

I'd like to write it too. But alas, it takes at least 2 or 3 ideas interacting to get me started on a SF story, and on this one so far there's only the one. Open to suggestions, though!

[onlyadream]

12. I have an evangelical friend of 20 years and...

after having some e-mails back and forth about Palin, I think it's safe to say that the friendship is over. My friend won't watch the news, or read on the internet, so she is truly in the dark by her own choosing. I'm moving on; she was in my life for a while and now she's not. Oh well.