Being a liberal Christian kinda sucks.

[spoony]

To the Christian Right I'm the enemy. The day after every election, I'm...the enemy. To whom am I not an enemy? What the hell do any of our efforts matter when they ostracise us both inside and outside our religion? And when louder, highly mobilised RWers get to define us in both the media and in the public perceptions shared by right and left? I can't convert those people to being liberals, and I can't stop them from calling themselves Christian. And they simply out-shout liberal churches, because I find those to be decidedly non-political, at least in the way that the right is political: spending millions swaying voters to their side. Liberal Christians don't I feel genuinely bad about their role in denying people their equal rights, but I don't feel like I should even say that to justifiably angry posters because I'm one of THEM, I have the same name as their actual enemies. I don't know what to do anymore.

This is just venting, feel free to disregard it.

[JerseygirlCT]

1. I hear you

I was just coming to vent a bit myself.

The rash of posts eager to blame all of Christianity for the vote in ME... do these people not see that they're using stereotyping and discrimination to complain about discrimination?

It's ok, apparently, when aimed at Christians. Use that great big broad brush, and when anyone has the temerity to complain or correct... well then complain about that, too.

Bunch of immature, knee-jerk reactionaries sometimes...

[wryter2000]

5. Speaking as a mod

We shut down most posts that are broadbrush anti-religious. Christian bashing isn't allowed. Sometimes things are framed more politely, and we don't take those down but move them to R/T where appropriate.

We don't see everything, though. In fact, we almost only see what's alerted on. If you see something bashing religion, hit the alert button. It may get deleted.

[JerseygirlCT]

6. Thanks - but

it might be a good idea to let all that pus out every once in a while.

I just put those posters on "manual ignore", and attempt to avoid them in the future. For the most part, they haven't got much to add to any conversation, and their writing indicates to me that they're probably fairly young with all the absolutism that can come with it.

I'll keep your suggestion in mind, though, and I appreciate it.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

2. Ironically, Maine is not a very relgious state, nor is Oregon,

where gay marriage was also repealed.

[FreeState]

3. Gay Marriage was never law or legal in Oregon so it could have never been repealed

however 4 years ago they passed a constitutional amendment to bad it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_Oregon

In 2004 and 2005, there was controversy and political disagreement concerning the status of same-sex marriage in Oregon. In 2004, Multnomah County began issuing same-sex marriage licenses, which began a political battle over same-sex marriage that ended later that year with an amendment to the Oregon Constitution. In 2005, the legislature introduced a bill to create civil unions which eventually died in committee and did not become law.

Currently, the state of Oregon does not recognize same-sex marriage. However, the governor of Oregon, Ted Kulongoski, signed a domestic partnership bill into law on 9 May 2007. Called the Oregon Family Fairness Act, the law would provide several major rights to same-sex couples that were previously only given to married couples, including the ability to file jointly on insurance forms, hospital visitation rights, and rights relating to the deceased partner. While January 1, 2008 was the date the statute would have taken effect, a court challenge delayed its implementation until being resolved on February 1, 2008, and the law went into effect that day, with registrations set to begin on February 4, 2008.<1>

The Oregon Constitution now states: It is the policy of Oregon, and its political subdivisions, that only a marriage between one man and one woman shall be valid or legally recognized as a marriage.<2>

[wryter2000]

4. I feel your pain

In fact, I went back to church specifically because I felt people on both sides of the political spectrum were misrepresenting the church I'd been raised in. The right wanted to claim it was a religion of judgement and punishment. The left wanted to claim that it was a mindless, unthinking, anti-scientific mindtrap where people got brainwashed.

I do like to confound the evangelical atheists by telling them they sent me back to church, though. They don't know how to react to that. :)

[Divine Discontent]

7. oh I know... best to you & God bless us all..

[Kajsa]

8. It can, Spoony.

I'm very quick to point out that
the Fundies don't represent me at all,
in fact, I don't consider them to be Christian.

Yes, I know that sounds very harsh but take one
look at Rev. Phelps-Christian?- I don't think so!

The Christian Right is not much better,
quick to condemn, oblivious to understanding others.

I call them heretics- Jesus weeps when he hears
their hate.

This is just mho, though.

[demosincebirth]

9. they say, you go far enough tot the left, you meet the far right.

[AlecBGreen]

10. Jesus is very clear on this point

From the Gospel of John "I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another."

Many hide behind the old excuse "I hate the sin but love the sinner." I find that very hard to believe. What is love? How do you love one another? Paul tells us in Corinthians "Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs."

[demosincebirth]

11. I interpret "that you love one another" to mean that we must "try" to love each other. There are,

truly, some people that I really don't like. and it would be very hard to follow His teaching on that. What it all come down to for me, is just strive to be a good Christian.

[supernova]

13. There's a saying around here

if there's someone who rubs you completely the wrong way and you can't get along with them no matter what:

"I'm glad God loves you because I sure as hell don't!"

:rofl:

[demosincebirth]

15. There are many here, on DU, that I'd love to say that to.

I'd just might start. Thanks.

[GreenPartyVoter]

12. Neither fish nor fowl.

[supernova]

14. In some ways it does

What I have ended up with, for now ;-) , is that I seem to want a little from just about every tradition:

Primarily I am contemplative, so styles of worship that focus on silence and meditation are great for me (Quakers, even bhuddist meditation. Anything that allows me the opportunity to just communion with God for a while) If I can do that in community, that's ideal.

While I dislike being made to repeat words over and over again every week, such as the creeds. It feels inauthentic to me. I do miss communion from the mainline and more orthodox tradition. I find that ritual very fulfilling. Always have.

I prefer a small group, such as a house church. The larger the church, the more I feel God receding into the background. That's a purely subjective thing. I'm sure a more extroverted person feels the opposite. Some of the most meaningful services I have been involved with were ones that were unscripted, i.e. no formal order of worship, and we created ourselves. This was the case at camp or away at retreats and usually outdoors with just a handful of people.

It breaks my heart sometimes to realize I'm not churchy enough for the more conservative folks, and not materialist enough for my more agnostic and atheist friends. What do you do when you are in the in between land and like it there?

I've often thought that if I were to build a church for myself and people like me, it would just be a house. Perhaps an older one fixed up. Comfy, but not overly redone. There would be no formal services but there would be couches and a place for whomever to just come by and chat. Coffee or tea and a nosh or two would always be available. There would be a library with all kinds of books on all kinds of theological topics and the history of the church. There would be a piano for whomever to play if they wanted. Music has always been very important to my sense of the Divine. Perhaps someone would bring a guitar. Whoever was present would be free to have communion. Conversation would be free flowing and nothing would be off limits. It would would traverse our lives, the parables, stories of Jesus, stem cells, the stars, and back again.

I would feel very comfortable with such a place.