Going to my UU New Member dinner tonight.

[Maat]

I went to Meditation on Thursday, and we did a wonderful meditation in which we pictured our Higher Self standing across from us, communicating with us.

I'll report back how it went.

Peace,

[intheflow]

1. Cool, I can't wait.

The church I just finished interning at had a grueling new member information event. I'll be interested to hear how the pleasanter-sounding dinner goes as contrast.

I like the meditation you described, too. Sounds like it could be a powerful experience.

[Maat]

2. Hi, Intheflow!

This was very casual, and very Southern-California-like. We were all dressed like 70's-hippies (jeans and a t-shirt or loose dresses or summer clothing). We dined on pasta and salad. We passed around the portable microphone and introduced ourselves, talking about which church we were raised in (for example, some are "Recovering Catholics").

I talked about how, when I was 15, I told my paternal grandmother, who practically raised me (my parents had other substances to imbibe/ingest - they were good Christian conservatives), anyway, I told Grammie that I would not be going to the Presbyterian Church anymore. We were in good old Laguna Beach, California. She was heartbroken, and was at that church much of the time.

I was out of the church for 30 years. Then as Beloved Daughter started getting older, I need to find a church, I decided. I took the test at beliefnet.com, and came up Unitarian-Universalist (100%). We also attend Church of Religious Science (another progressive church), although I am really getting into UU. C.R.S. (Religious Science) is my underlying belief that I kind of fit into the UU framework (it is called a New Thought philosophy).

So, I told them all of this - and my story is not unique. Some are UU and Pagan, some are UU and agnostic, and some are UU and liberal Christian. I'm a New-Thought UUer. So, I fit right in. But the important thing is that I'm with fellow progressives.

Very laid-back congregation, but they are all very involved.

As to our meditation group, we work off of a CD called 'Namaste,' my favorite saying now.

It is sure fun taking my 8-year-old there, and sometimes my atheist-hubby (of 20+ years) even likes to come - because everyone is welcome there!

"Grueling new member information event" - that doesn't sound relaxing! Was it the planning that was grueling or what?

[intheflow]

3. Hmm... we had an element of story-sharing.

I love hearing about people's spiritual journeys to UU. What kind of dinner was it? Potluck? Catered?

It was grueling because it was 6 hours long. The mistake, I think, was lumping together newcomers and new members under the umbrella heading of "Getting To Know UU." The new members had to sit through stuff they'd already learned from the minister before they signed the book and newcomers who were just curious got more information on membership than they needed right away. I think they're doing something different next year, though I don't know what.

We did play a cool game, though, as an ice breaker. When everyone came in, they had a sticker with a famous U, U, or UU on it. Then they had to ask each other questions until they guessed who they "were." It was hard on nights we had big crowds because a lot of "famous" UUs are pretty obscure in today's popular culture. But fun none-the-less.

I'm glad you had a good time. Your church sounds totally cool. :hi:

[Maat]

4. That's interesting.

My minister didn't have any talk with me before I signed the book; we exchanged a few e-mails. Maybe she knew that I had already done some research.

This was only a few hours long.

I could probably learn some of the principles from you.

Everyone in UU sort of has a personal spiritual philosophy underlying their UU membership. Some are UU and Pagan. Some are UU and Christian. I am UU and New Thought; thus, my underlying philosophy comes from Church of Religious Science - I believe that God is the One-Energy both within and without.

It is my understanding that one does not have to be a Christian to be a UUer, but that the church had some Christian roots. Is this true?

Some UUers do not believe in the afterlife. I do believe that one transitions to another incarnation, but I do not believe in a Heaven. What is your understanding of this?

I have a bumpersticker that indicates that UUers may each have a different belief, but that we come together as one people for the service, bound by our concern for community. Do I have this right?

Thanks in advance for any input.

[elshiva]

6. I think it has Christian roots, It broke away from Christian

beliefs about God as Trinity for instance...

I thought that one goes through various incarnations and goes to Nirvana? That was my understanding... Do you believe in Nirvana?

Hello, Maat! So happy that you have a great faith community there! :hug:

[Maat]

8. I don't think so, but ... I have to know more.

Nice to see your post, Elshiva!

[elshiva]

9. Thanks! "I don't think so..." What are you refering to there?

Your conception of incarnation or that UU is from Christianity.

[Maat]

12. Oh, El, I know that UU has roots in Christianity.

And I know that Religious Science does also.

I meant as to Nirvana.

I'm going to research that more. If I understand correctly, per Buddhist belief, one is reincarnated until one has achieved enlightenment (has no more karma to work off). Then Nirvana means not having to go back into a human life, and that one goes to a Heaven.

I think I want to keep going back into one life after another.

I like 'experiencing.'

I would like to think that one has some kind of choices in the afterlife, however.

I do not believe that bad karma follows one into the next lifetime. I've decided against that.

I'm into bar study mode again - this is a brief break.

[elshiva]

13. Good luck on the studying.

Nirvana is not the same as Heaven. Nirvana is a state of Non-being, while Heaven is a state of being. Heaven would be experiencing things...

Maybe people have a choice between Nirvana and Heaven? I believe in both. Some people have to much pain in life, for them a choice to not be, yet still be with the blessed, would be great.

Just thinking here, too. It's nice to have an open forum here.

[Maat]

14. Thanks for the good wishes.

I try to put any frustration out of my mind.

Thanks for the info. If Nirvana is a state of non-being, at this point, I'm not interested.

I'll go ahead and take any 'negative' experience with the positive. I know that I, for one, will probably always see a little negative.

Heaven sounds good, but I then I still will want to experience in another life; I really hope that we have some choices - maybe earn some brownie points that we can cash in - so that we can choose. Eh, who knows?

Maybe it is as you believe.

Yes, I do like having a forum.

[elshiva]

15. Rather not live another life, have trouble enough with this one...

For now I can believe in both Nirvana and Heaven, but not Hell.

[Maat]

16. Well, I agree Hell is not an option.

I just don't believe in it.

Under my belief system, I believe that Elshiva will be able to choose not to keep getting into a new life; she will be able to permanently stay in a restful, safe place (Heaven).

Take care!

Peace,

[elshiva]

17. WoW! Thanks! Always impressed by the way you write.

Yes, hopefully there will be a choice, well definitely the choice, what with free will, there seems to be many choices all the time in this life...

Blessings!

[Maat]

18. Blessings to you!

And thanks.

I'm TIRED. I'm going nightie-night.

Take care!

[elshiva]

19. Hope you had a good night's rest!

[Maat]

20. Hey, it is Tuesday!

It's a great day!

I think that ministers, pastors, must be under a great deal of stress. My UU minister had to take a 2-month break!

We must have been too demanding.

She's at a retreat someplace now, and will be back at the end of May.

[intheflow]

7. Short answers

#1.
Of course you don't have to be Christian to be UU, but both the Unitarians and the Universalists were Christian denominations originally. The Universalists considered themselves Christian up until the time of the merger in in the early 1960's. I think most of the Unitarians considered themselves Humanists/Atheists/Agnostics by then. I can email you a sermon I did on the early early Christian influences, if you're interested.

#2.
Afterlife or nothingness? I think all you could get UUs to agree on there is that the question is ultimately unknowable since no one ever came back to tell the tale. Jesus wouldn't count since UUs believe in Jesus' humanity as opposed to his divinity. I think it's safe to say that for the overwhelming majority of UUs--even Christian UUs--the story of Christ's resurrection is mythic and symbolic.

Personally, I believe our souls are ourselves as pure energy. This pure energy is also the Holy Spirit, Nirvana, the Tao, Eternity, Infinity, Allah, I Am, and God. When we die our energy is released into the All.

#3.
This is the balance between the 1st and the 7th principles: The inherent worth and dignity of each person and the interconnectedness of all creation. The prevailing thought in UU these days is that we had gone too far over toward the 1st principle to the neglect of the 7th. I think as a denomination, and particularly since September 11th, we are trying to rebuilt the meaning of community that was lost with the individual emphasis.

This shift in thinking came from an address at the 1998 General Assembly by sociologist Robert Bellah (who wrote Habits of the Heart). If you'd like to know more about that, check out this link on the UUA web site: http://www.uua.org/ga/ga98/jun27bellah.html. It has a link to Bellah's full speech.

Interestingly, there were only 6 principles to begin with. They added the 7th sometime in the 1980's. Check your church's hymnals. The principles & sources are listed right before the first hymn. The first editions of the standard gray hymnal only listed 6 principles.

And those are the short answers! Phew!

:D

[Maat]

10. Thanks!

This is very similar to what I learned in my New Thought church (Church of Religious Science).

I have beliefs similar to yours.

I believe that the energy leaves the body on 'death.' I'm not sure that the energy re-unites with the One-Energy so much that uniqueness is lost. I'm not sure if we have choices (our energy has choices) after death. I like to think that I get to come back into life after life, and am near the same souls.

Maybe at some point we get the choice about whether or not we get to rest permanently; I'm not sure.

I'd love to see that speech of yours; I'll PM you later.

Thanks so much for the info.

[intheflow]

21. Maat, I gave you misinformation in my short answers!

Damn, I hope this isn't an indication that I've spent too much time living under this administration!

:silly:

Naw... it's an indication that I was sleep-deprived on Sunday night. Anyway, I said that there were originally only 6 principles. This is not true. There were always 7 principles. But there were only 5 sources to start and the 6th (earth-centered religions) was added later.

This was one of those things where I bolted awake this morning suddenly realizing what I had said to you. It's a disconcerting way to awaken, but at least I know you'll be gracious enough to accept my apology for spreading misinformation to a new UU. :) :hug:

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

5. Ah, a good practice

sort of like the lines from one of my prayers,

Open our hearts
That we may hear Thy voice
Which constantly cometh from within.


The Higher Self is always there, it is a matter of clearning away the ego crud to see and hear it.

[Maat]

11. That is so nice.

I always love to hear your prayers, ayeshahaqqiqa, and about the Dances of Universal Peace.