The Gospel of Thomas Verses #1-#12 Posted for comments; interpretations.

[WiseButAngrySara]

http://www.gnosis.org/
Link for The Gnosis Archive (Main Page)

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl.html
Link for the Nag Hammadi Libray

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gosthom.html
Link for the Gospel of Thomas

The Nag Hammadi Library

The Gospel of Thomas

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Translated by Stephen Patterson and Marvin Meyer


These are the secret sayings that the living Jesus spoke and Didymos Judas Thomas recorded.

1. And he said, "Whoever discovers the interpretation of these sayings will not taste death."

2. Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all. "

3. Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you.

When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty."

4. Jesus said, "The person old in days won't hesitate to ask a little child seven days old about the place of life, and that person will live.

For many of the first will be last, and will become a single one."

5. Jesus said, "Know what is in front of your face, and what is hidden from you will be disclosed to you.

For there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed. "

6. His disciples asked him and said to him, "Do you want us to fast? How should we pray? Should we give to charity? What diet should we observe?"

Jesus said, "Don't lie, and don't do what you hate, because all things are disclosed before heaven. After all, there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed, and there is nothing covered up that will remain undisclosed."

7. Jesus said, "Lucky is the lion that the human will eat, so that the lion becomes human. And foul is the human that the lion will eat, and the lion still will become human."

8. And he said, "The person is like a wise fisherman who cast his net into the sea and drew it up from the sea full of little fish. Among them the wise fisherman discovered a fine large fish. He threw all the little fish back into the sea, and easily chose the large fish. Anyone here with two good ears had better listen!"

9. Jesus said, "Look, the sower went out, took a handful (of seeds), and scattered (them). Some fell on the road, and the birds came and gathered them. Others fell on rock, and they didn't take root in the soil and didn't produce heads of grain. Others fell on thorns, and they choked the seeds and worms ate them. And others fell on good soil, and it produced a good crop: it yielded sixty per measure and one hundred twenty per measure."

10. Jesus said, "I have cast fire upon the world, and look, I'm guarding it until it blazes."

11. Jesus said, "This heaven will pass away, and the one above it will pass away.

The dead are not alive, and the living will not die. During the days when you ate what is dead, you made it come alive. When you are in the light, what will you do? On the day when you were one, you became two. But when you become two, what will you do?"

12. The disciples said to Jesus, "We know that you are going to leave us. Who will be our leader?"

Jesus said to them, "No matter where you are you are to go to James the Just, for whose sake heaven and earth came into being."

[WiseButAngrySara]

1. Cont'd: Verses #13-#24

13. Jesus said to his disciples, "Compare me to something and tell me what I am like."

Simon Peter said to him, "You are like a just messenger."

Matthew said to him, "You are like a wise philosopher."

Thomas said to him, "Teacher, my mouth is utterly unable to say what you are like."

Jesus said, "I am not your teacher. Because you have drunk, you have become intoxicated from the bubbling spring that I have tended."

And he took him, and withdrew, and spoke three sayings to him. When Thomas came back to his friends they asked him, "What did Jesus say to you?"

Thomas said to them, "If I tell you one of the sayings he spoke to me, you will pick up rocks and stone me, and fire will come from the rocks and devour you."

14. Jesus said to them, "If you fast, you will bring sin upon yourselves, and if you pray, you will be condemned, and if you give to charity, you will harm your spirits.

When you go into any region and walk about in the countryside, when people take you in, eat what they serve you and heal the sick among them.

After all, what goes into your mouth will not defile you; rather, it's what comes out of your mouth that will defile you."

15. Jesus said, "When you see one who was not born of woman, fall on your faces and worship. That one is your Father."

16. Jesus said, "Perhaps people think that I have come to cast peace upon the world. They do not know that I have come to cast conflicts upon the earth: fire, sword, war.

For there will be five in a house: there'll be three against two and two against three, father against son and son against father, and they will stand alone."

17. Jesus said, "I will give you what no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, what no hand has touched, what has not arisen in the human heart."

18. The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us, how will our end come?"

Jesus said, "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is.

Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

19. Jesus said, "Congratulations to the one who came into being before coming into being.

If you become my disciples and pay attention to my sayings, these stones will serve you.

For there are five trees in Paradise for you; they do not change, summer or winter, and their leaves do not fall. Whoever knows them will not taste death."

20. The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us what Heaven's kingdom is like."

He said to them, "It's like a mustard seed, the smallest of all seeds, but when it falls on prepared soil, it produces a large plant and becomes a shelter for birds of the sky."

21. Mary said to Jesus, "What are your disciples like?"

He said, "They are like little children living in a field that is not theirs. When the owners of the field come, they will say, 'Give us back our field.' They take off their clothes in front of them in order to give it back to them, and they return their field to them.

For this reason I say, if the owners of a house know that a thief is coming, they will be on guard before the thief arrives and will not let the thief break into their house (their domain) and steal their possessions.

As for you, then, be on guard against the world. Prepare yourselves with great strength, so the robbers can't find a way to get to you, for the trouble you expect will come.

Let there be among you a person who understands.

When the crop ripened, he came quickly carrying a sickle and harvested it. Anyone here with two good ears had better listen!"

22. Jesus saw some babies nursing. He said to his disciples, "These nursing babies are like those who enter the (Father's) kingdom."

They said to him, "Then shall we enter the (Father's) kingdom as babies?"

Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter ."

23. Jesus said, "I shall choose you, one from a thousand and two from ten thousand, and they will stand as a single one."

24. His disciples said, "Show us the place where you are, for we must seek it."

He said to them, "Anyone here with two ears had better listen! There is light within a person of light, and it shines on the whole world. If it does not shine, it is dark."

[leftyladyfrommo]

2. I'll get some stuff for this this afternoon. I need to go home and

get my book.

One of the books I have has in it the sayings that scholars actually attribute to Christ, which parts of the oral tradition, and which parts may be from ideas that were common at the time and Christ would have been well aware of them.

These books were written so long after Christ died that a lot of this is probably oral tradition and what was considered common knowledge.

But don't you find it interesting how different the tone of these sayings are? Sometimes just a little twist on the wording can make a huge difference.

[leftyladyfrommo]

3. These Gnostic Writings are interesting.

I need to spend more time reading them. I had kind of forgotten about the Good God, Bad God (inferior) thing. I thought that wasaa pretty novel idea.

Don't you find it amazing that there was so much breadth of philosophy during these eary centuries. It's like every philosophical idea we discuss today was discussed probably to death back in these early years.

And it kind of seems like the discussion carried on up until about the Dark Ages. A whole lot of ideas and writings that had been popular kind of disappeared about then. Like a light just went out and total ignorance and poverty and awfulness took over for a while.

[leftyladyfrommo]

4. There are lots of gnosticn kinds of thoughts in here

It states definitely that you can find God within - not outside. Can't get much clearer on that. So did the gnotics get this idea from other sources that were around at that time or did it actually come from Christ?

I wonder where the good god, lesser god stuff originated?

I have to say I kind of agree with them on this earthly existence stuff. It just doesn't seem like this life on earth is anything but hard. And I have it easy. Just imagine living your existence in a place like Darfur. Or what life was like during the dark ages or even Victorian London. Life was just god-awful with absolutely no hope of having anything better.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

5. Thoughts

2. Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all. "

Isn't this the description of journeying down one's own spiritual path? The disturbance comes from the nafs, or smaller self. When the smaller self is tamed, we marvel over What is.


3.....Rather, the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you.

When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty."

Isn't this Tat Sam Asi? You are That which you are seeking. Riches and poverty have a direct connection to your inner life, I think. To know onesself, even a little bit, is to have immesurable wealth.

[leftyladyfrommo]

6. Be sure and look at the NYT this morning. - big article on

sufi movement.

I'm still going back and forth to the hospital but am checking in a couple of times a day. I saw that article and immediately thought of you. I left my paper in the car but I will try to give you a link later in the day.

M

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

7. I read it

We Sufis here in the States also do zikar. I have done many different variations of zkr. It can be life transforming.

[leftyladyfrommo]

8. I'm glad you saw it.

I haven't had time to sit down and read it all but will do so this afternoon.

[leftyladyfrommo]

9. I love those quotes from Thomas.

It is how I feel about Faith.

[SPKrazy]

10. Elaine Pagels

book on Thomas is fantastic

I just read it and it explains a lot about the context of the gospel of Thomas and a lot of historical information about the early Christian churches.

What she says about Thomas is very interesting as it seems to have been written about the same time as the gospel of John.

It is possible that John was written to counter Thomas (or possibly visa versa) but the differences about Jesus, what he said, and who he said he was in each gospel are very different.

I'm excited about Thomas

[leftyladyfrommo]

11. Elaine Pagels is certainly one of the best out there

I've been reading a lot more on this lately. A lot of scholars think that this work is really 1st century and could predate the canon gospels.

Interesting because Thomas doesn't mention all the fancy stuff - no virgin birth, no resurrection. Just the nuts and bolts.

I love Thomas. And there are a couple more books in the Nag hammadi Library - the Acts of Thomas and the Book of Thomas.

[SPKrazy]

14. Yes, Not Only That

but only two of the synoptic gospels mention virgin birth, and one mentions shepherds coming, and one mentions wise men.

Shepherds were considered "impure" by the Judaistic traditions of the time. That means that this story is more likely to have been one of the early Christians following the Jesus tradition of using subversive metaphor (subversive to the purity laws of the Pharisees) to show that Jesus was a message to the world that God didn't want "purity", but rather compassion.

I've been reading some Marcus Borg, "Meeting Jesus Again For The First Time" which is excellent!

[leftyladyfrommo]

13. I just read that book again. She is a wonderful writer.

I have some other books I am reading, too. One by Bart Ehrman on the Lost Gospels. And other one my Meyers.

Finally there are getting to be lots and lots of things about the debate going on in the first 3 centuries - before the canon was brought together in an official way.

[SPKrazy]

15. I've Not Read any Ehrman

I've read some reviews on Amazon that kind of turned me off to him as the (not reader reviews I don't think)one I'm thinking of mentioned that Ehrman used to be a fundamentalist and had swung far the other direction on the pendulum. I'm more interested in the middle path, and looking at what is more likely the historical Jesus, and the divine Jesus. I'm interested in the Jesus Seminar as they meet yearly to vote on what they think are authentic sayings of Jesus, vs. sayings that are more likely the message of the early Church

[leftyladyfrommo]

16. I have one of Ehrman's books on the Lost Books

or documents that were out there in the first and second century but were not included in the canon. It is very interesting. It has the Nag hammadi material but also some other texts that were well known to the early church members but which were kind of lost later on.

But I will read anything. My favorite is Pagels. And there is another guy named Meyers who has some really intersting stuff on the early writings.

But I just like to read the actual documents themselves - and then get help on interpretation. It is hard to really get a feeling for those works from 2,000 years out. Our whole society and world and view of the cosmos is just so different.

[bonito]

12. Just a little kick here

Peace

[intheflow]

17. I'm sure #1 is why the book didn't make it into the canonical gospel.

1. And he said, "Whoever discovers the interpretation of these sayings will not taste death."

The men that chose the final books that make up what is known as the New Testament, as well as concluded which gospels should be banned, couldn't figure out the interpretation of these sayings. If they included the Gospel of Thomas, but couldn't come up with any plausible explanation for these sayings, then they'd be admitting they were not among the Chosen, they would be admitting they could not reach eternal life in heaven with Jesus. Rather than own up to their humanity with humility, they egotistically deleted these sayings to save their own souls. x(

[leftyladyfrommo]

18. Jesus used a lot of koans in the Gospel of Thomas

It is difficult to understand unless you get help from someone like Pagels.

You know the one that I like the best is where he says to give your money to those who won't or can't give it back. That is really a different twist on what we hear today.

I love Thomas. I love all the different twists in that work.

[intheflow]

19. You should read Richard Valantasis' book on Thomas.

Valantasis was one of my New Testament professors at seminary. His book, The Gospel of Thomas, was actually referenced by Pagels in her Thomas book. Valantasis also wrote The Beliefnet Guide to Gnosticism and Other Vanished Christianities.

It's really a shame he is so bound by academic norms when writing these books, they don't allow his very flamboyant personality and zany humor to shine through. But he's a wonderful scholar, so his books are well worth reading.

[leftyladyfrommo]

20. I will see if i can find the book.

I've read several authors on Thomas - it is really fascinating stuff.

I have another book by Ehrman that is all the books from the 1st and 2nd and 3rd century that were very popular but didn't make the canon. Those are really interesting to read.