Advice needed on buying binoculars....

[Pert_UK]

I posted this in the Outdoor Life group but somebody PM'd me to suggest that the people in here would probably have some good suggestions too. Any help would be appreciated:

I'm hoping to go on safari in Southern Africa later this year, and it would seem silly not to take some bins with me.

However, I have no experience whatsover in buying binoculars and have no idea what to look for.

Can anybody give me some pointers re:

- which brands to look for / avoid
- which features to look for / avoid
- any particular models that you'd recommend?

I don't want to spend a load of money (may even go 2nd hand via eBay or a pawn brokers) - probably not more than £100, definitely no more than £150 ($190 - $280 at a rough guess). Needless to say, I'm not expecting to get a set of Zeiss for this money!

I was thinking of either going for 7x or 8x magnification, but was wondering about getting a set of zoom binoculars - are they any good? Do you sacrifice a lot of quality for the additional function?

I'd prefer a reasonably compact pair.

For what it's worth, I used to shoot air rifles with a scope on, so I'm not completely ignorant about optics, but you might as well assume that I am......

Thanks.

P.

[amazona]

1. you are not being realistic about price -- add a zero!

You cannot get compact, low cost, and quality in the same sentence. I would argue that I would never purchase compact at all except under special circumstance, such as severe health issues that meant I simply couldn't handle bigger glass.

Even with somewhat shaky hands or limited experience in aiming glass, you can go 8 or 8.5 times rather than 7 and get a little more magnification.

Gimmick binoculars that zoom around or take digital photos are junk.

I've never seen a good pair of binoculars in the pawn shop. Birders use their glass until they die or else upgrade, and when they upgrade, the old binoculars are usually retired to certain windows or donated to causes like supplying Latin America birders and ornithologist with glass. But who knows, I suppose you could always get lucky. As far as Ebay, I don't see how you can buy glass that you haven't tried.

If you haven't got a decent optics shop in your area, I'll recommend Eagle Optics since they do have a program where you can try the prospective purchase.

I use Swarovski Binoculars EL 8.5x42 and I think there is really no substitute. You may think the price is out of your range, but it's a lifelong purchase:

http://www.eagleoptics.com/search.asp?q=swarovski&pid=887

Closer to your stated price range is Audubon Swift 8.5x 44:

http://www.eagleoptics.com/search.asp?q=audubon+swift&pid=2399

I used 'em for years in all sorts of abusive environments. They aren't lightweight though.

You just ain't gonna get lightweight at the price you want. I did exercises with light hand-held weights to strengthen various muscles in my arm, and it got rid of the shake or tremble I used to experience.

Bird Watcher's Digest magazines and website contain frequent and thorough discussion of optics choices, and you may want to review them before you buy anything. I'd link you but for some reason the site is slow-loading this morning and I can't get to the right page now. I'll try to remember to come back later.

P.S. If you wear glasses, don't even consider buying glass from EBay or anywhere else where you can't try them first! I can't emphasize this point strongly enough. And if your eyes are close together, that goes double.

On Edit--OK READ THIS--the section on Binoculars Under $500 and also the basics of Choosing Binoculars should help get you started:

http://www.birdwatchersdigest.com/site/optics/optics_index.aspx

And enjoy South Africa. I birded Kenya and it was an amazing experience to say the least.

[Pert_UK]

2. Thanks for the reply, but with all due respect.....

I'm looking for something half-decent to use on a 5-day safari and can't afford to add a zero to my budget.

I don't THINK that Swarovski bins are out of my pricerange, I KNOW that they are. It would be unrealistic to pay that amount of money for something I'm going to use a couple of times a year at most. I don't have enough money, and even if I did I have higher priorities.

Having said that, I appreciate your comments re: the digital camera bins and zoom bins - I will avoid them like the plague, as other people have also said the same thing. I also appreciate the comment about needing to try out the lenses before buying them, although to be honest I doubt that your shop will ship them to the UK for me to trial!

I'm thinking about getting a cheap pair of compact Tascos that will fit easily in my day pack, but I also want something a bit better than that too. If push comes to shove I'll just go for the better bins and only take one pair - I'll be taking a camera with zoom lens anyway, so with a bit of luck I can use that for viewing too.

Thanks for the site link - I'll check it out now!

[amazona]

3. a tip on cheaper brands

They are not as precision machined, so each pair can be a little different. Try all of them in any store you visit, and pick the best rather than assuming that each is the same. I have met a birder who actually snagged a pair of Tascos that he was able to use for years because they performed so much above average.

I didn't realize the trip was only 5 days, whoa! Of course it is such a distance to travel to Africa from the U.S. that we don't normally do short trips to that area.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[Pert_UK]

4. Thanks again...

to be honest, I'm hoping to be in South Africa for a couple of weeks, but I'll only be on safari for about 5 days.

Of course, bins will still be useful for viewing on the top of table mountain, but I won't be paying $1000 for them!

Thanks again.

P.

[amazona]

5. in Kenya there are many birds right in Nairobi

So you would use binoculars even when not on safari.

However, I don't know what the bird/wildlife situation is like in South Africa. Nairobi, the city, is actually right up against Nairobi, the National park.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[blindpig]

6. pawnshops

are a possibility, I've obtained my Zeiss 8x30(70's vintage) and my Swavorski compact(disappointing) in a pawnshop(caveat, I worked there!). It can't hurt to look if you've got time.

For your price range you might look at Nikon. Their Action Extreme line seems pretty nice, I use similar out of production 12x50 model to good effect. Prices run $200 -$250 msr.

Like Amazona said, compacts are mostly useless, toys.

[Goldeneye]

7. I don't know much about binoculars...my dad

picked out the ones I have now, but I've always really liked them. We got them at a Fleet Farm on sale for $180, so you can find some reasonably good binoculars in that price range.

Here's a link to the pair I have. They're only $130, but they're pretty heavy...

http://www.opticsplanet.net/bushnell-8x42-legend.html

Here's a general link to discount Bushnells. If you know enough about Binoculars...maybe you can find a good deal.

http://www.opticsplanet.net/busbinsal.html

[XemaSab]

8. I'd go for Eagle Optics Rangers

AKA Celestron Regals. Good optical quality in your price range (around 300 US). They're fairly small roof prism optics. Sturdy. Bright.

Don't go for zoom binoculars, they suck.

Go to a camera store or optics shop and try out different pairs. It's all about what YOU like, and if you have a better pair, you will get so much more enjoyment out of the trip really being able to SEE things.

[Pert_UK]

9. And the winners are...(DRUMROLL)...if you are interested.

Guys (and Gals)

I took some of your advice, but I'm afraid I did overlook one crucial tip - I didn't try before I bought.....

OK, I did try a few pairs (oddly, in Koln, Germany) and decided on 10x magnification, but I ended up buying over the internet...from Ebay, no less....

I bought a pair of compacts for my other half (we're going on safari together) and a pair of full size for myself.

Compacts:

I bought these from a German company via the French eBay site.....complicated, eh?

Seben Sahara 10x26



"Barium-Crown 4 Glass, full rubber armoring, fogproof, waterproof and nitrogen-purged"

They really are SUPERB - can't recommend them highly enough as a compact. I paid £21 including shipping, which is unbelievably cheap for products of this quality. We can just afford to throw them in a bag whenever we go out anywhere walking now - great!

Full size:

Burris Landmark Rf 10x42:



1. Waterproof, safe under 1 meter water
2. Multi-Coated Optics
3. Extended Eye Relief for Optimum Viewing With or Without Eyeglass
4. Bak-4 Prisms for Sharp, Detailed Image
5. Durable Rubber Camouflage Armoring
6. Twist-up Eyecups
7. Includes Carrying Case, Neck strap, and Lens Cloth

Magnification : 10x
Objective lens : 42mm
Focus System : Center
Prism System : BaK-4
Field of View : 365'@1000yds
Eye Relief : 17mm
Exit Pupil : 5.25mm"

Again, a fantastic pair of bins (although they did come with a VERY cheap case and cord, which I've had to swap for £2 via another eBayer.

These were bought off the US eBay site from a guy in Hong Kong. They arrived in 3 days and cost under £50 including shipping....Which is stunning, considering I've seen them for over £150 over here.

So - thanks for the advice, especially the recommendation for buying Burris. I'll let you know how I get on with the safari!