War

[H2O Man]

From the speech by Haile Selassie in California on 2-28-1968:

"Until the philosophy which holds
one race superior and another inferior
is finally and permanently discredited
and abandoned
That until there are no longer
first class and second class citizen
of any nation
Until the colour of a man skin
is of no more significance than
the clour of his eyes
That until their basic human rights
are equally guarenteed to all,
without regard to race

Until that day,
the dream of lasting peace, world
citizenship and the rule of
international morality
will remain in but a fleeting illusion
to be pursued, but never attained .....

Until bigotry and prejudice,
malicious and human self-interest
have been replaced by understanding
and tolerance and goodwill
Until all (people) stand and speak
as free beings equal in the eyes
of the Almighty ....
there will be war."
(Put in song-form by the prophet Bob Marley as "War.")

Until we put an end to the Bush/Cheney aggressive violence around the globe, there will be no chance of: (1) democracy in Iraq or Ohio; (2) money for "no child left behind"; (3) a sane energy policy; (4) an end to religious strife; (5) an end to racism, sexism, and nationalism; (6) a war on poverty, ignorance, and/or disease; (7) you fill in the blank.

If Americans do not begin a serious anti-war effort, the administration will not only continue on its insane policy in Iraq, but will participate in strikes inside of Iran. The administration lacks the moral capacity to stop being violent. The congress lacks the will to address the war.

Yet every poll shows the majority of Americans are convinced that the American policy in Iraq is wrong. Yesterday, more Americans were killed in Iraq than on any other day. It is a shame that we have no idea how many Iraqis died yesterday.

I think that discussions about who should be the democratic candidate in 2008 are a distraction from the single most important issue that we need to address immediately. It's as much of a distraction as wasting time debating who should be the candidate in 2020, or Sponge Bob's sexual desires.

Perhaps we could discuss what people can do, as democrats at the grass roots level, to organize the anti-war effort.

[mattclearing]

1. So that's where Bob got that line. Nice. n/t

[sherilocks]

2. Grass roots Democrats have to take charge

of the anti-war effort as a single issue, removing it from the rhetoric of a multitude of other issues, that divide us and muddy the waters. The anti-war effort can and should be made to appeal to mainstream Americans who oppose the invasion of Iraq.

[H2O Man]

4. I agree.

The war can and should be the issue that unifies the majority of Americans. Unless (and until) we address that, we will be divided on other issues, and exploited by those forces that care no more about our welfare than about the welfare of those in the cities of Iraq that they are occupying and destroying.

[Hawkowl]

5. Rephrase the message

I agree 100% that the WAR is THE issue.

We should no longer talk about "opposing the invasion of Iraq". We should talk about opposing the slaughter of American Marines and soldiers for no good purpose. We should insist on accurate casualty counts and allowing press access to the bodies being flown into Dover. We need to insist that the war in Iraq is not the war on terror, as Fox news would have you believe.

This should be the keystone issue of our party. Because it IS going to be around in 2008--certainly in 2006 for midterm elections.
Troop pullouts will not begin after elections--Bush has already "scaled back expectations". In fact look for the U.S.A to attack either Iran or Syria (the only surviving Baathist regime) in the near future.

Talk to your friends, acquaintances, co-workers and Senators. Let them know of your outrage, your grief, and above all your determination to stop the war and change our fascist regime at home.

[H2O Man]

7. Write a letter

to your local paper. Never underestimate the power of the pen. The United States' Constitution outlines what actions citizens can and should take to confront the errors of the government. Breath life into the Bill of Rights!

[sherilocks]

10. My local paper is full of anti-war letters

and an occasional rebuttal, usually written by an uninformed bushbot who still thinks that Iraq is part of the "war against terrorism."

We need to get the Democratic clubs, DECs, and state Dems aligned in the anti-war movement with clear and precise resolutions against it. From there we can move into presenting the resolution to local town and county boards to endorse it. Trust me, the media will start picking this up, whether the resolution is adopted or goes down in flames. Nothing like a good controversy to get the media sniffing around.

[H2O Man]

12. Very true.

I agree with you 100%.

[sherilocks]

9. I do agree that the message has to be phrased

appropriately, but using words like fascism isn't one of them. The people that we are trying to reach get turned off by words like "fascist regime." Democrats have an opportunity to galvanize the majority of the American population that is against the war, but many will tune out any message that carries such terms.

[H2O Man]

11. If a person speaks English

you can best communicate with him/her by speaking English. If you speak in French or Chinese, they really won't understand you.

We can use some words on here, and it's fine. We understand that language, even if we don't speak it. But the majority of Americans do not. We need to speak the language that they understand.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

3. Are Americans really interested

While most Americans seem to be lauding Bush's Inauguration speech as the core of Americans values I thought the speech was real clear. America has now decided that it should extend its empire over the entire world and is going to move forward to do such.

The question that Democrats need to address is not who they are going to run for the next election but rather, is there going to be a next election.

[H2O Man]

6. I know the

main stream media is busy trying to convince America that Bush's speech was great. They are actually comparing it to JFK's.

I know a lot of people, from many walks of life. Not one thinks that Bush's speech was better than an average television commercial.

Without exception, those people from the various walks of life are concerned with the American occupation in Iraq. There is a wide range of beliefs on what our nation's next steps should be. But there is no support for the Bush/Cheney policies.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

8. Hmmmmm

There does seem to be some movement that way, perhaps it's time for another "event" that can deepen the fear a little more.

[H2O Man]

13. I suspect that

if the USA and Israel engage in airstrikes in Iran in late April, that the consequences will create more fear than expected.

[Me.]

14. It Seems To Me

that the Iranians won't take it lying down and will lob one in our direction (or Israel's). Do you think that would wake the people up or would they do the reverse and get behind the effort? And maybe that retaliation is just what they, the neos, want.



What is it good for? Absolutely nothing!

[H2O Man]

15. People who think

they are in control of violence are delusional. Violence is the definition of out of control. Violence gains control of people.

This does not imply that self-defense in the strict sense s a "bad thing." But it does mean that violence for self-defense in justified only when things are so out of control that there is no other option.

Many of us have known that Iran was in the neocon plan for remodeling the Middle East. The neocons who advocate the policy of air strikes against numerous Iranian targets are delusional. Things are not so out of control that human beings have no other options.

But, if the neocon airstikes occure in late April, world events will rapidly spiral out of control.

[Me.]

16. But Do You Think

Americans will buy their arguments for a second time and get behind them or will this be what finally wakes Americans up? Will the great, vast delusion bubble finally pop?

[H2O Man]

17. They will not

be asked. It will appear approximately as follows: Israel will make a strike; Iran responds; the USA will send in massive air strikes. It will escalate extremely fast.

This is assuming that the anti-war forces will not put a stop to the plan.

[leanin_green]

18. I have said it many times before. . .

what makes you think this administration will even acknowledge an anti-war movement? They don't give a damn about public opinion. The more you march, the more they laugh, and needless to say you make it easier to find you. Anyone who believes that these paranoid imbeciles aren't taking note of who appears at these protests is asking for it. We finally need to acknowledge the fact that these people don't respond to public outcries, national unrest or mass marches. Their answer will only be a bunker mentality. That means they'll come down and come down hard. This is the fascist answer to derisive opinions, force. It is time for a controlled, measured and forceful response. It's time, as Americans, for self-survival.

[H2O Man]

19. Of course.

What you say is true. In fact, it was true when MLK started in the USA, and when Gandhi started in India.

What is important is to realize that the goal is not to change the mind of those with diseased minds while they are in power. If a robber comes into my house with a gun, my first step is not to convince him to become a better person. It's to take that gun away, and have the police arrest him.

In this case, the goal is to convince the American public first; then to begin to work up to congressional leaders. We need to take the guns away from the diseased minds in the administration. After we do that, we can take some time to try to convince them of the error of their way.

I will also suggest that besides educating through LTTE and marches, there are going to have to be people who are as willing to go to jail and go on hunger strikes, as there have been in other non-violent protest movements. In order to reduce the massive suffering in other parts of the globe, we may need to accept suffering here.

It can be done. The only question is how far are people willing to go? Are they willing to give up the comfort of saying, "It can't be done!"? Are they willing to reject violence within and accept it from without? Are people who loved MLK on a recent holiday willing to put his tactics into practice?

Gandhi used to say that "living Christ is a living cross, but life without Christ is living death." I think that the Bush/Cheney policy is living death. But the responsibility does not fall entirely with George and Dick: how far are we willing to go? Are we willing to commune with Gandhi?

[leanin_green]

20. I am with you there. . .

This is the force I am suggesting. Universal Law dictates that a force met with an equal or superior opposite force cancel each other out or the superior force removes the inferior force. The force that will be made evident by this administration must be met with the opposite force of peace and nonviolence. However, this could get bloody for us. It is difficult for many to maintain this stance in the face of suffering and violence. I'm not sure I could, but I'm willing to give it a try. In fact, I would like to show all those fundies what the spirit of Christ is truly like. I believe it is time for mass civil disobedience. Not so much protesting, but collectively saying "no more." Although it is important for us to go in with our eyes open. This will cost us. But it begs the question, "As this administration's policies continue to create a great divide between the haves and have nots, what have the have nots to lose?" If you have nothing to begin with, then how bad could it be, except for pain and physical suffering?

[H2O Man]

21. Bark, bite, & bleed.

It's a funny thing: every year, the local newspapers' police blotters are filled with the names of college students. They come to the local city, and they do a little partying, and then they get arrested for the silliest things .... open container, possession of the demon weed, peeing in a parking lot, playing music loud late at night, and yelling and whooping it up.

These are the same young people who will soon be called upon to wear a uniform and carry a weapon to fight the Bush/Cheney wars in the Middle East. And even though 98% of them might be against those wars, and might even have attended some protest march and carried a sign that said "No War!" .... they will put on that uniform, pick up the gun, and go to a foreign land to kill or die for the insane policies of some politicians in Washington, DC.

As long as those politicians recognize that those college kids are unconscious from the cultural novacaines which rendor them into less-than-human guard dogs .... who will bark when they are told to bark, bite when they are told to bite, and bleed when their master wants them to bleed ..... you can be sure that the war will continue.

As soon as young people wake up, and realize that it is more important to get arrested for something meaningful rather than something stupid .... and that it is better to bleed for democracy at home than to die for Dick Cheney's foreign investments .... then the tide will turn. But only then.

[Me.]

22. Continuing The Conversation

With the thoughts of others:


“What If (It Was All a Big Mistake)?
By Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX)
t r u t h o u t | Statement

Wednesday 26 January 2005
Delivered to the U.S. House of Representatives.

America's policy of foreign intervention, while still debated in the early 20th century, is today accepted as conventional wisdom by both political parties. But what if the overall policy is a colossal mistake, a major error in judgment? Not just bad judgment regarding when and where to impose ourselves, but the entire premise that we have a moral right to meddle in the affairs of others? Think of the untold harm done by years of fighting - hundreds of thousands of American casualties, hundreds of thousands of foreign civilian casualties, and unbelievable human and economic costs. What if it was all needlessly borne by the American people? If we do conclude that grave foreign policy errors have been made, a very serious question must be asked: What would it take to change our policy to one more compatible with a true republic's goal of peace, commerce, and friendship with all nations? Is it not possible that Washington's admonition to avoid entangling alliances is sound advice even today?

In medicine mistakes are made - man is fallible. Misdiagnoses are made, incorrect treatments are given, and experimental trials of medicines are advocated. A good physician understands the imperfections in medical care, advises close follow-ups, and double-checks the diagnosis, treatment, and medication. Adjustments are made to assure the best results. But what if a doctor never checks the success or failure of a treatment, or ignores bad results and assumes his omnipotence - refusing to concede that the initial course of treatment was a mistake? Let me assure you, the results would not be good. Litigation and the loss of reputation in the medical community place restraints on this type of bullheaded behavior.

Sadly, though, when governments, politicians, and bureaucrats make mistakes and refuse to reexamine them, there is little the victims can do to correct things. Since the bully pulpit and the media propaganda machine are instrumental in government cover-ups and deception, the final truth emerges slowly, and only after much suffering. The arrogance of some politicians, regulators, and diplomats actually causes them to become even more aggressive and more determined to prove themselves right, to prove their power is not to be messed with by never admitting a mistake. Truly, power corrupts!”…cont.

http://www.truthout.org/d



“Iran next, then who?

George Bush's apparent desire to create a state of perpetual war spells disaster

Gore Vidal

01/27/05 "The Independent" -- Last week, courtesy of Seymour Hersh and The New Yorker, we learned that a long-held prediction of mine had come true. American forces have been operating inside Iran, thus extending yet further the President's "war on terror".

There is no war, other than the one the President unilaterally is waging against a weak Congress and weak countries with oil. It's true that Congress has given the President certain unusual powers, but as only Congress has the constitutional power to declare war, he is not, as he keeps yapping, a wartime president. Hence his conviction that he can lock anyone up, foreigner or native, and send them off to Guantanamo without due process of law.

This is simply a Bush war. It has nothing to do with the American people. And we were not in danger from weapons of mass destruction. The danger is an Administration that has fallen in love with war because of the special powers war gives the Administration to rid itself of the Bill of Rights and lock up dissenters. We've had some scary times in the past but nothing to compare with this. So what do we have to look forward to?

A disaster, in short. Iran/Persia represents a brilliant culture, one of the greatest the planet has ever known. They do have atomic weapons, and that is why our rulers are pretending that they are longing to blow us up - because we have liberty and freedom and democracy and are so prosperous. (None of these things do we actually have, but this is the official line that we are asked to believe.)”…cont.

http://207.44.245.159/article7897.htm

[leanin_green]

23. Thanks for that, even the Paul statement.

[PATRICK]

24. especially as the next war

already forecast and planned is being staged right now- as if it will just happen because we are 'forced" to. And then once we have slaughtered people, the die having been cast as planned years before and reported upon in some national publications, we have to insure the blood investment is sacredly honored.

Born in the USA. Born suckers for the blood suckers.

The lies and the juggernaut must be stopped with a sledge hammer of popular awakening. Will it ever happen? Will Democrats ever be given a fair chance to run in an election again?

The immediate actions are stopping the frauds now. The future is being murdered as if it is some accidental surprise, not a transparent advertisement. Premeditated and cold blooded for profit war.

I think it must be simply be laid out that the intentions for war are criminal with aforethought and that citizens in this country will insist that our leaders be considered war criminals if they proceed as they have with unstopping, lying consistency to murderous aggression against nations not a threat to our national security, not able to benefit from our unwanted "help".

Stopping a war already sunk into "occupation" is being ignored. Getting in their face concerning a really insulting march to another mockery of "process" NOW is more critical to stop the war against Iran NOW in actual gear. They would have you imagine no one is even interested whether the US goes to war or is planning war or has any rational just cause or anything. They certainly don't want people mulling over the FACT that this war is a planned done deal whatever anyone thinks and the rest is participating in a completely discredited, old charade.

[H2O Man]

25. Will it happen?

It will take a number of things to wake people up. Again, we are the sleeping giant in the house on fire. There are people who are frantically thinking about how to get the giant out .... will he fit through the window? Isn't he too heavy to carry? Who would he favor in 2008? And an entire realm of questions and worries that are utter nonsense at a time the house is on fire.

Wake the giant up, and he'll get himself out of the burning house. But what do we try to wake the public up to? Because the giant has been hypnotized by the glitz and glamour of television; the giant is numb from the novacaine of the Rx for any discomfort, especially those that are not real; and the giant has been frightened by the danger of the darkness into thinking he can disappear from responsibility if he blends into the herd.

We must wake the giant's sense of humanity. I don't think that anything less than setting the moral alarm clock off will do it. I would prefer a small group of 12 people willing to take a Gandhian stand, than a herd of a million that wanted to have a social gathering in the park, and to rush home to watch the coverage on CNN.

We need people who would be willing to go on a diet.

[Wind Dancer]

26. I posted this earlier in the week on a different thread.

We need to find a way to unite and lose the labels.

Our system has been designed to divide and pit the "average person" against one another through boogiemen, melodrama and propaganda.

If we could come together as human beings for one common cause and demand our government officials represent us, not their corporate sponsors.

Martin Luther King, Jr. was able to tap into many of our social, spiritual and common needs "as people". We need that ENERGY now.

All of us continue to become further divided which only benefits the
"rulers" in this case. We are now in a dangerous situation with the PNACers, I watched Sy Hersh the other day and have never seen him so frightened.

If every community around this country could organize a "Rosa Parks" type commitment, we may have a chance to "bankrupt the buses". It's up to us now.