DLC - Time to Dump GOP-Lite

[wabranty]

Yesterday's elections proved that the DLC is not needed in the 21st Century Democratic Party. They did nothing to help Democrats win in these elections and their constant calls for the Democrats to return to the center is not a vision but a capitulation to the GOP. Can anyone name any DLC-favored candidate or DLC-sponsored policy that won in yesterday's election? Since 2000, their policies and candidates have hobbled the Democrats and forced the country to endure eight years of the most inept and criminal President ever.

Speaking as someone who supported the DLC back in 1991 and was glad to see DLC-sponsored candidate, Clinton, win the White House, I have become greatly disillusioned with DLC policies and their stands. I still like Clinton but that is because he didn't fully implement the DLC party line.

Thanks to DU, I have become more convinced that running to the center and being GOP-Lite is not good for the Democrats and the country. I should have remembered what Truman said, "Given a choice between a real Republican and a fake Republican, voters will choose the real Republican."

:dem:

[quiet.american]

1. Yup. Welcome to the club. n/t

[Gildor Inglorion]

2. Amen! I agree with you 100%

n/t

[Debi]

3. Agreed!

:hug:

[stopbush]

4. Yep. And who shot down Ah-nold in CA? The UNIONS, that's who.

Their ads were great - very effective.

Time to take our party back, then our country.

[marbuc]

5. Instead, we need to strengthen the progressive policy infrastructure

The DLC is entitled to have a voice in the party, but progressives need to strengthen their voice by creating a similar organization to develop and promote progressive policy alternatives.

[wabranty]

16. Agreed. But I wish the DLC also agreed with you . . .

instead of trying to fight attempts by the Democratic Party to build that progressive structure. Remember, they are on record for opposing Dean and his efforts on rebuilding the Democratic Party activist infrastructure.

[marbuc]

18. Fortunately, they really don't have a choice in the matter.

There are more than enough progressives out there to fund a robust policy/advocacy center, if only we we get organized about it.

I'm not talking about a single interest group, or a fundraising organization, but an "idea factory" to determine the progressive platform on the full range of issues. I'm talking about one that can offer progressive candidates policy support to round out their their own positions. The DLC does this for its slate of candidates, but progressives are pretty much on their own.

[Nite Owl]

6. Amen to that.

Welcome to DU wabranty!

[salib]

7. Then, we must cut em off at the knees

Target all their major funding sources to force them to donate to the DNC, or just get out of the "tent" and join the Repukes. That is the choice.

[HillDem]

8. Not yet

We dont have a majority, we cant be picky yet.

Win back a majority then we can take the party to the left.

[Rowdyboy]

9. Uh, don't want to rain on your "party-purity" parade, but Tim Kaine is DLC

so are we supposed to be rejecting him too?

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=104&subid=116&contentid=252748

[William769]

11. Don't you know better that telling the truth just doesn't cut it.

When it comes to bashing Democrats?

The DLC is what wrong with America Not the GOP! :sarcasm:

[Rowdyboy]

12. I'm sorry. I forgot that one rule.....

Let's get rid of all 20 DLC senators and the roughly 100 DLC house members and have a truly pure (albeit VERY small) party! :sarcasm:

Isn't it hilarious that most of DU has been celebrating the Kaine victory all day and he's a member of the EVIL DLC?

You can't fly with just a left wing.

[wabranty]

15. Your picture actually makes my point. . .

If you notice, it's the left wing that has been shot off - symbolic of how the DLC would like to remake the Democratic party.

And of the DLC members you speak of, how many of them have crossed party lines and supported the Republicans on issues detrimental to Democratic Party values. Appeasing the the GOP is not going to make the Democratic Party any stronger. Your picture reminds me of the last mess we got into because we appeased a certain person.

[Ken Burch]

22. The DLC could stay if it were willing to be one group among equal groups

in the party. What needs to end is the DLC's attitude that they are the natural rulers of the party and that the rest of us are obligated to follow their wishes without question.

If the DLC is willing to negotiate and compromise, progressives will be willing to do the same. But the arrogance and presumption they have displayed since their inception has to be discarded and discarded for good. The party does NOT owe the DLC everything.

[wabranty]

14. If a supposed Democratic organization is first to ally with the GOP . . .

when it comes to bashing other Democrats, is that organization truly Democratic?

No sarcasm here.

[wabranty]

13. Just because the DLC claims a politician . . .

doesn't mean that he or she is part of the DLC. If you read the link that you offered, nowhere do you find that Kaine is an actual member of the DLC. And if you read my posting before responding, you will see that I praise a former DLC member - Bill Clinton. I also notice that the DLC is claiming that Hillary as their "DLC Leader."

There are some good policies that the DLC advocates but my biggest complaint about them is that they are too eager to run to the center-right in order to win elections. They have opposed Dean as party chairman even though these elections proved he was right and they are the first to join with the Republicans when it comes to beating up on Democrats.

Again, I ask how the DLC helped anyone win in these last elections? Kaine won because he pinned W onto Kilgore and not because he espoused DLC positions.

[Ken Burch]

21. It doesn't matter in this case

Kaine may be DLC in origin, but a lot of progessives across the country worked hard for him, and he owes them. This will have the
effect of pushing Kaine towards more progressive policies, and will
help begin the process of moving Virginia away from its "Old South" conservatism.

[wyldwolf]

23. really?

Kaine may be DLC in origin

In origin, the past, present, and future. He is a southern moderate democrat. He ran as a self described centrist.

a lot of progessives across the country worked hard for him, and he owes them

Which goes to show a lot of progressives across the country don't give a damn if he's DLC or not. Kaine will continue as Warner did - and will govern as a moderate/centrist.

[Ken Burch]

24. No, Kaine owes his victory to progressive help,

so he can't keep us out in the cold. It's not as simple as you seem to think it is.

The race also shows that any Democrat would have been competitive in Virginia.

The country is moving left, it isn't stuck in the bland center/right anymore.

[wyldwolf]

25. I believe the hardcore "progressives" on DU have a different...

...defintition of the term than the Democrat on the street.

What evidence do you have that Kaine owes his victory to "progressives?"

The race also shows that any Democrat would have been competitive in Virginia.

Silly. Kaine was the Lt. Governor of Mark Warner - a VERY popular Governor who campaigned for Kaine. Not just "any Democrat" could have been competitive there. Kucinich? Kerry? Yeah right.

The country is moving left

I'm sure you have reams of evidence to support that little ditty. Let's see some.

[Ken Burch]

28. Fair enough

1)Democratic local gains across the country on election day this year;

2)the defeat of all four of Ahnold's initiatives in Cali;


3)the continuous decline in Dubya's approval ratings and the dramatic rise in anti-Iraq war and pro-troop withdrawal sentiments in all recent national opinion polls.

4)the strong and growing leads Democrats have in polling for this year's Congressional races, at a time when Democrats in Congress have moved more and more to a "progressive" and "antiwar" position.


That's a start.


None of the above would have happened if the country couldn't tolerate anything to the left of DLC "centrism".
(And I know point #4 particularly annoys DLC'ers, since you folks don't want Democrats to have majorities in Congress anyway.)

[wyldwolf]

30. that's a start for what?

Now, your assertion is that the country is "moving left" and "isn't stuck in the bland center/right anymore."

The only way you can possibly make this assertion is if you believe the current GOP in power is center/right. I contend they're far right. So, sure, based on the political spectrum the country may be moving left but they're moving BACK to the center from the far right.

Evidence of this, of course is Democratic local gains across the country with an interersting comparison to several Gallup polls. A Gallup poll of Democratic National Committee members (in February 2005) showed that, by more than two-to-one (52%-23%) the DNC members want the party to become more moderate, rather than more liberal. That view is shared by Democrats nationally; in a January survey, Gallup found that 59% of Democrats wanted the party to take a more moderate course

Also, there isn't a growing "anti-war" position in this country, there is a growing "anti-THIS war" position brought on by the evidence that Bush lied about it. Surely you don't believe that if what Bush had said was true (nukes in Iraq, Al Queda/Saddam connection, etc.) that the public would be this disenchanted with the war Iraq.

None of the above would have happened if the country couldn't tolerate anything to the left of DLC "centrism".

Have I said that?

But just remember, Kaine is DLC. Corzine is a centrist who has said he believes in the original purpose of the DLC (the purpose that pisses so many "lefties" off), the overturning of the Penn. school board was about education and science. You can't tack a DLC/liberal label on that. And Arnold's failed intitiatives are indicative of CA's growing disappointment in his economic policies. Had he governed like Warner (DLC), he might not be having those problems.

DLC'ers, since you folks don't want Democrats to have majorities in Congress anyway.)

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Coming from the camp that posts daily on DU that they will not vote for any DLC candidate, that is hilarious!!!

Actually, it's the ideologically pure as snow faux proooogreeesssiiives who don't want Democrats to have majorities in Congress anyway.

[endarkenment]

10. "return to the center"

As the Republicans keep moving the goalpost ever rightward, the DLC 'centrism' moves right along with it. Were the Democratic Party to move to the true center, a moderate program that was neither excessively left or excessively right, it would be moving left, not right.

[Ken Burch]

20. We also need to REDEFINE THE CENTER!

The polls show that while most people call themselves "moderate" or "conservative", the positions they take are actually liberal or even, in some cases radical. We can say that progressive views are "the true center".

[DaveinMD]

17. some claim

Mark Warner is DLC and by extension Tim Kaine. That said, I think these labels are silly. Its not about left v right, its about change or more of the same.

[wyldwolf]

19. you're kidding, right? Kaine is as DLC as they come...

...and so is Mark Warner who campaigned for Kaine.

In post 13 you said, Just because the DLC claims a politician doesn't mean that he or she is part of the DLC. If you read the link that you offered, nowhere do you find that Kaine is an actual member of the DLC.

Well, how about this link that lists him as an official member:

http://www.dlc.org/new_dem_dir_action.cfm?viewAll=1

...or this one:

http://www.raisingkaine.com/blog/?p=204

Here in the United States, the lead organization which has pushed the “Third Way” agenda has been the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC). Significantly, two leading members of the DLC hail from Virginia — Governor Mark Warner and Lt. Governor Tim Kaine.

Even Jon Corzine, who isn't a DLC member, was quoted a saying he shares their original founding purpose.

Kaine campaigned, and won, as a "sensible centrist."

Sorry. The DLC and members Mark Warner and Tim Kaine won Virginia.

[wabranty]

26. Again, just because they are in a list doesn't mean they are New Dem

Neither link has Kaine saying himself that he is a member of the DLC. It's just a list of politicians that the DLC claim as New Dems much like the Sierra Club claims a certain politician represents them on the issues. Scorecards are different from being an actual member of organization.

But, let's grant your argument that Kaine is a member of the DLC. Now, prove that the DLC had a direct influence on Kaine's win in Virginia.

[wyldwolf]

27. well, now that you mention it...

...I don't recall ever seeing ANY member of the DLC say he/she is a member of the DLC so I guess the DLC doesn't really exist or has only a few members... :eyes:

It's always hysterical to see the extremes people will go to to try and win an argument.

prove that the DLC had a direct influence on Kaine's win in Virginia.

Again - you're going way out there on this and really gaining no traction. You might as well ask for proof that the DLC has had any direct influence on ANY candidate's wins over the years. If the case can't be made, then why is the DLC so big and bad?

But seriously, Kaine ran on Warner's record. Warner governed with DLC economic policies that strongly resemble Clinton's policies. This isn't an opinion, it's a fact. Do you need to see some evidence that the DLC poured money into the campaign or that Al From stood on street corners and held signs for him?

[David Van Os]

29. Bravo!

[Odin2005]

31. The DLC is evil.

The eagle doesn't need 2 right wings. :grr: