Your list of the top ten people Democrats should NEVER listen to again.

[Ken Burch]

To start with, here's mine:

1)Joe Klein
2)James Carville
3)Joe Lieberman
4)Donna Brazile
5)Any Dukakis or Kerry strategist.
6)William Galston
7)Bonnie Erbe(or anyone else who says we SHOULDN'T act like 2006 was a mandate)
8)EITHER Clinton
9)Tim Russert(except during future court appearances)
10)Harold Ford, Jr.

The above people, IMHO, have nothing constructive to offer us. Learn from their mistakes, but otherwise ignore them.

Add your suggestions below.

[proud2BlibKansan]

1. Dick Morris

[Ken Burch]

5. I had Toesucker Dick on the list to start with, but I figured we were ALREADY ignoring him.

n/t.

[swimmernsecretsea]

6. Hahaha! How do we ignore him more? I'd forgotten all about him until I saw his name here! nt

[BlackButterfly6]

50. Ha now you cant ignore him

OBAMA is a fighter and he has shown that time and time again!!

[danglingwrangler]

28. Obama has now been elected to the list of reprobate Democrats

With his money guy Rezko, and his religious mentor a dubious anti-american anti-establishment loose cannon Jeremiah Wright - Obama's meteoric rise has crashed and burned with equal velocity.

Better now than later - after Bush... America needs a President NOT cloaked in deception that even Obama now is consumed by.

Obama made his glorious race speech (an intellectual excuse), ONLY after his campaign was caught with their pants at their ankles in racial controversy - that only Obama and Pastor brought on - NOBODY else!

[Citizen_Penn]

34. ELEPHANT SHIT!

Nice try shilling for Hillary.

AGAIN, NO SALE.

hillary is toast - despite your rude crude and socially unacceptable whining.

Obama is the real deal.

If you knew what I know about Hillary Clinton, you would know just what crap this man could have thrown - and didn't.

That's ethical courage.


Something Hillary Clinton and her supporters will never understand. Because they lack it.

[Nipper1959]

36. Terry McAuliffe

Terry McAuliffe
The man has the worst political instincts ever!
If not for Ross Perot there would have been no Clinton victory in the 90s yet McAuliffe is viewed as a winning strategist.
He is a hack, a shill and a loser.

[secondwind]

44. You might want tocheck on Sarah Palin's Pastor Controversy......

Her pastor is worse than Rev. Wright!!

[FM Arouet666]

51. Smells like a troll.

[daveskilt]

2. seriously - you are adding the bigdog to that list??? nt

[yurbud]

3. Bigdog & Hillary are masters of the faustian bargain with corporate America

they do what they are told on foreign policy, and in exchange, they screw us a little softer domestically than GOP would.

[Ken Burch]

4. Sadly, yes. I know a lot of people still like him. And he did win in '92( '96 didn't matter)

Fact is, his way doesn't even get anybody elected anymore.

And all his way ever did achieve was personal power for himself. Power exercised without any courage or principle.

Sorry folks, charisma by itself ain't enough.

We need to move on.

[blm]

39. The ONLY reason Clinton won in 92 was because GHWBush expected to be impeached after

the release of the Dec 1992 BCCI report.

Jackson Stephens had groomed Bill in Arkansas for just such a need. Stephens was involved with Bush's illegal operations in BCCI, and was the man who brought BCCI into this country in the first place.

Guess y'all didn't notice that BCCI matters were deep-sixed throughout the 90s by Bill Clinton who threw in with BushInc to protect the secrecy and privilege of the powerful elite. Bush2 didn't happen in a vacuum.

How many of you even know that a good deal of the money Bill's collected since he left office has come through those protected on BCCI matters - Stephens, Marc Rich, Dubai and Saudi royals, to name a few.

[clarence swinney]

54. CLINTON WON AMERICA WON

CLINTON PRAISE--WITH PLEASURE
GDP--rose from 6300 to11,600
NATIONAL INCOME-5,000 to 8,0000 Billion--took 20 years to grow 2500B beforeClinton
JOBS CREATED--over 22 million--record by far
AVERAGE WEEKLY EARNINGS--$360 to $478
AVERAGE WEEKLY HOURS WORKED--never hit 35.0--hit that mark 4 times in 80's
UNEMPLOYMENT--from 7.2% down down down to 3.9%
MINIMUM WAGE--$4.25 to $5.15
MINORITIES--did exceedingly well
HOME OWNERSHIP--hit all time high
DEFICIT--290 Billion to whoopee a SURPLUS
DEBT----+28%---300% increase over prior12 years
FEDERAL SPENDING--+28%---80% under Reagan- who da true conservative?
DOW JONES AVERAGE--3,500 to 11,800 all it's history to get to 3500 and Clinton zooms it
NASDAQ--700 to 5,000---all of it's history to get to 700 and Clinton zooms it
VALUES INDEXES-- almost all bad went down--good went up in zoom zoom zoom
FOREIGN AFFAIRS--Peace on Earth good will toward each other---Mark of a true Christian--what has Bush done to Peace on Earth?
POPULARITY---highest poll ratings in history during peacetime in AFRICA, ASIA AND EUROPE even 98.5% in Moscow--left office with highest gallup rating since it was started in 1920's.
STAND UP FOR JUSTICE--evil conservatives spent $110,000,000 on hearings and investigations and caught one very evil man who took a few plane rides to events.
BOW YOUR HEADS--Thank you God for sending us a man of Bill Clinton's character, intelligence, knowledge of governance, ability to face up to crises without whimpering and a great leader of the world.
THANK YOU GOD FOR THE GOOD TIMES THE CLINTON YEARS.

[blm]

55. Overturned within 1yr of BushInc because BILL PROTECTED GHWBush and Jackson Stephens.

9-11 was a direct result of protecting BushInc from BCCI matters - you want to APPLUD THAT, clarence? Wake up to the difference between the lasting consequences of Clinton's wrong acts of protecting BushInc and the EASILY overturned 'good times' you highlight.

[SoCalDemGrrl]

7. Off hand I can think of 8 who should NEVER speak for DEMS again:

1. James Carville - he's pussy whipped by that fascist wife of his - he's lost it completely!
2. Joe Lieberman - TRAITOR!! The Benedict Arnold of the 21st Century.
3. Dick Morris - Slimebag of the 1st degree.
4. Ralph Nader - no comment required.
5. Tony Coelho - he screwed Kerry and would do it again to a future Dem candidate.
6. Terry McAuliffe - ok, so he can raise some money but he really blew it when it counted Gore v Bush
7. Susan Estrich - what has happened to this woman?? She used to be reasoned, thoughtful but she has sold out to the dark side.
8. Alan Colmes - His milquetoast responses to Sean Hannity's bombastic antics play into the hands of the righties who unjustly portray all Democrats as lily livered sissies.

and who SHOULD be allowed to speak for US??

1. Robert Reich - Briliant economist, reasoned, respected and usually correct in his assessments.
2. Jimmy Carter - The epitome of fair and balanced.
3. Howard Dean - The voice of the People. He speaks well, but more importantly, he LISTENS.
4. Al Gore - History has proven that Al Gore was correct on ALL counts.

So, that's my 2 cents worth..

[Yurovsky]

16. Why no comment on Nader?

Granted, I'm not hip to all the negatives on RN, but was wondering why he seems to have popped up on lists from people across the Center-to-left spectrum in this thread.

Not looking to flame, just curious. thanks...

[Ken Burch]

24. I was assuming that nobody here listens to him to start with.

n/t.

[BlueManDude]

8. Pat Caddell

[dajoki]

9. Pat Caddell is an asshole...

I can't stand the sight of him or the sound of his voice.

[loyalkydem]

10. Joe

Biden is the only democrat on my list. Heck, he's Independent now I don't even consider him a democrat. He's a traitor as far as I'm concerned.

[DeeDeeNY]

11. Here is one

Well, not a person but a group --
The Democrats should NOT listen to the mainstream media, because they do not know what they're talking about -- "Democrats have to be careful speaking out against the war because they will then be perceived as weak on defense", "Talk of impeachment would backfire on Democrats", etc.

[wyldwolf]

12. ooh! here's seven

1. Any armchair strategist from DU
2. Markos Moulitsas Zúniga
3. David Sirota
4. Jerome Armstrong
5. Matt Stoler
6. Arianna Huffington
7. Matt Taibbi
8. Ralph Nader

[ludwigb]

13. With the possible exception of #1

Every individual you mention is someone I've respected and admired for years (though I do hate Nader---love the ideas, hate the strategy). Your list tells us Dems should stop listening those those voices that stand on principle.

[Ken Burch]

14. Well, the person who made post #12 hates the Democratic Party

except for the extreme right-wing Southern white minority faction he belongs to.

[wyldwolf]

19. did you say that with a straight face?

I think your avatar pretty much sums up your view of the Democratic party

[demhistorian]

18. I like that list

If we listened to them, we'd be running liberals in red states and losing big.

[Ken Burch]

23. The way to win in Red States is to run economic populists

who bring black and white working-class voters together. Not to try to "out-uptight" the GOP, which is impossible anyway.

Flagwaving never works for our candidates anyway.

[wyldwolf]

37. that's one way if they know how to fight back against the smears...

...something progressives have never seemed to learn. Centrist dems have always been economic populists. This new relatively new progressive love affair with the term sounds more like an excuse to embrace Dem centrists in red states everyday.

[ronleslie]

15. Yes and No

While I sure agree with you regarding most of the people on
your list, I have to respectfully disagree regarding Joe
Klein.   I find his perspective almost always right on ... at
least from my point of view.   And as for President Clinton,
while there are things to fault him for, there are also many
things to his credit.   I wouldn't put him on the list of
people NEVER to listen to again ... just listen to with a
clear head.

[dajoki]

17. Here...

Lieberman
Tweety
McAuliffe
Morris
Caddell
Colmes or any other Faux Noise so called "liberal"
Carville
Rendell, I know he has many fans, but in PA he's been dissapointing
Zell Miller
Nader

[Jack 4 Ohio]

22. Oh that Zell Miller

I couldn't agree more.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jack 4 Ohio]

21. why Harold Ford Jr. ?

[1800flowers]

25. Newt Gingrich

He is always on Fox with his hate-speech.

[nacdemocrat18]

26. My Top 10

1.Howard Dean - can't we find a sane leader?

The rest of my list contains people I find too extreme for the party to really gain sustainable power:

2. Nancy Pelosi
3. Harry Reid
4. Al Franken
5. Hillary Clinton
6. Nick Lampson
7. William Jefferson
8. Elliot Spitzer
9. James Carville
10. Geraldine Ferraro

[wogget]

27. Mine

1)Chris Matthews
2)Joe Lieberman
3)Harry Reid
4)Joe Klein
5)Bill Clinton
6)all the war cheerleaders who cannot admit their responsibility in getting us where we are today.

[vbonnaire]

29. DAVID AXELROD

You might want to read about some things he has done at my place! Especially regarding the target marketing/bubblesort/astroturfing techniques as well as his ties to Exelon...

http://vbonnaire.wordpress.com

Ethics matter to the Democratic Party. Some of us, anyway.

[wabranty]

30. Top Three People Who Should Never Work on Dem Campaigns

1) Shrum
2) Penn
3) Morris

[Citizen_Penn]

31. Why Donna Brazile?

[Diamond Dog]

32. Any member of the Democratic Leadership Council

or the Blue Dog Caucus, ever.

[Citizen_Penn]

33. Not ready to ignore - why?

keep your friends close, enemies CLOSER.

Several names on your list have demonstated their enmity for my Democratic principles.

Therefore, I'll be watching VERY CAREFULLY.

Now, will I value what they say? LIKELY NOT.

Bill Clinton has disappointed the hell out of me.

[zonmoy]

35. anybody to the right of kucinich

[blm]

38. Shows how LITTLE you know about Obama's national political network -

You mistake the incompetence of McAuliffe's DNC and the lame-ass Clinton folks who fucked up 2004 for Kerry with Kerry's actual team.

Kerry did great and beat Bush in every matchup, including their campaigning - how did the DNC and the left media do in THEIR matchups with the RNC and the RW media machine? Try answering that question honestly.

Daschle, Durbin and Kerry tapped their political organizations to face down the Clinton machine once and for all and Obama was the candidate they backed.

Subtract the Clinton loyalists who are the biggest assholes and undermining campaign saboteurs in the Dem party in 2000, 2002 and 2004, and the actual political organization Kerry had was topnotch.



BTW - You think Axelrod would be YOUR strategist of choice in 2002 and 2004 elections? Axelrod was the Dem strategist advising Dem candidates then to NOT bring up Iraq war on the campaign trail, and to stick to domestic issues. He publicly criticized Kerry in 2002 for attacking Bush on Iraq.

Then he came out as Edwards' campaign guru shortly after Edwards helped write the IWR bill.

No election is the same.

So - let's deal with the FACTS as they exist. The media perception that some of you latch on to shows how easily you can be manipulated by those with control of the broadcast airwaves.

[davidpdx]

40. My list

1) Joe "neocon" Lieberman
2) James "traitor" Carville
2) Bill and Hillary Clinton
3) Ed "the hack" Rendell
4) Terry "I'll eat my own shit for breakfast if it's cooked right" McAuliffe
5) Elliot "I have a hardon" Spitzer
6) Geraldine "the racist" Ferraro
7) Mark "the mouth" Penn
8) Howard "I can't take it any more so I'll whine" Wolfson
9) Tom "idiot ranter" Buffenbarger (see link below)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/23255540#23255540
10) Bob "I'll kiss Hillary's ass any day of the week" Shrum

[Hand Man]

41. Agreed.

Seconding Mark Penn.

[Karl_Bonner_1982]

42. Alan Greenspan! NT

[Lydia Leftcoast]

43. Anybody who blathers about

"pro-business policies" (translation: give the major corporations everything they want and screw the average worker)
"a strong defense" (translation: fund everything the military contractors can dream up and find a use for it later)
or
"bipartisanship" (translation: give the Republicans everything they want)

[NashVegas]

45. Karl Rove, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Really, Glenn Beck, Laura Ingraham, etc

[tonycastro5000]

46. Need help in bringing republicans to democratic side.

Can people write some messages to help bring republicans to Obama's side. They must be well reasoned, logical, and genuine undeniable truth, no hate words, and they must be less than under 200 characters. Im open to all suggestions and messages. Thank you.

[clearview08]

47. Only 10?

Seems like these days all parties need some spring cleaning. I think I could name about 100 Dem's alone. We need to take our party back. If the water tower has a leak, you don't figure out whose to blame before you fix the leak. Right? I'm very interested to see what the true lip service percentages end up being for both sides of this autocracy election. For all those who just love to speak in absolutes, open your eyes , and your heart, and your mind.

[Ah Xoc Kin]

48. Matt Drudge Drudgereport.com

Drudgereport.com is very right wing
the headline while I'm typing this is a giant
Sarah Palin photo with caption "The Sarah Show"

[BlackButterfly6]

49. I can name two

1.Joe Lieberman- Thank God hes going to republican base now or independent or something.
2. John Kerry: he is un inspiring as a democrat

By the way, I think you got your wish with Tim Russert

[crownchakrabound]

52. At first I didn't realize that your OP was so old

I was gonna ask what was wrong with Donna Brazille. She has been great lately, so...It's funny that Carville's on the list because he sure has been biased lately. Russert is no longer with us...

I would add Terry McAuliffe but he's been MIA since Hillary's loss.

[Chan790]

53. What's interesting...

is that many (if not all) of those people listen to one man...a guy that most people have not ever heard of...a scum-sucking corporatist quisling named Al From. Al From is the founder and CEO of the Democratic Leadership Council. He's as lily-livered and yellow-bellied as he is black-hearted...there is no Democratic constituency he won't sell down the river to forward his socially-regressive Freedman-style economically-conservative corporatist agenda.

Ronald Reagan famously said that he didn't leave the Democratic Party, the Democratic Party left him. Al From should realize the same thing. It is good and necessary from time-to-time for this party to cut dead weight and anchors for the good of the Democratic Party. If we didn't, we'd still be the party of Billy Tauzin and Strom Thurmond and Ronald Reagan and Joe Lieberman.

You don't need a list of ten people...you only need a list of one person:


Al From.

[votervoice]

56. How about adding the Communist Party to the list?

Democrats better watch out for the Communists now lurking within the party. Get the story here: <http://www.examiner.com/x-1969-Boston-Progressive-Examiner~y2009m1d26-Communist-infiltration-of-Democrats-has-created-identity-crisis-for-Marxists>

[Ken Burch]

57. The man must still be steamed that this guy played at the inaugural concert

[trumanh59639]

58. GWB, then

Mccain, Palin, and countless others.

[clarence swinney]

59. I like

Jay Rockefeller

He is very rich and works for the Middle Class.

Chris Dodd=middle class

Kennedy was awesome worker for Poor

Dorgan & Conrad know budget like none other.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

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[Half and Half]

62. Only one guy on my list.

LARRY SUMMERS... he was the guy in charge of helping Russia go Capitalist, among several other staggering failures. Blew my mind to see him on Obama's economic team.

[DarrinBridges]

63. Support Local Candidate

I'm supporting a local candidate for Mayor in Cumberland, MD. He is progressive and embodies all of the kinds of things that we really need in our community. Can anybody help with an idea of how to raise some funds to help him run? He has a website that lets you donate online at http://electbriangrim.com/contribute.htm but I was thinking if there was a way to get a bunch of people to just donate like $10.00 it would be really helpful.

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

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