With Dems like us, who needs Repubs?

[eggplant]

I've been a fairly quiet listener here at DU for a long, long time. I visit DU every single day, and find pointers to news stories here that I can't get anywhere else. It is an invaluable resource.

That having been said, I am appalled at the opinion posts here. Almost without exception, within the span of a half dozen replies to any given topic, the conversation devolves into a blind-rage-fueled screaming match. Nobody is listening to what anyone says, everyone is simply spouting whatever their own knee-jerk reaction may be.

Hillary is great. Hillary is evil.
Obama is great. Obama is evil.
Kucinich is great. Kucinich is unelectable.
Vaccinations are terrible. Vaccinations are great.
Dems are terrible. Dems are great.
Cindy Sheehan is great. She's evil.
Will Pitt is great. He's evil.
MIHOP. LIHOP. Quick, off to the dungeon!
and the list goes on.

Whatever. It has gotten so bad that I now try to force myself to only read the original posts, to get the pointers to outside sources. Then I stop reading. There is no reasoned debate here. There is no productive discussion. There isn't even new information. Just a bunch of high pitched voices screaming at each other, hoping to shout down the opposing viewpoint. For all the things we deride the opposing party for, we are guilty ourselves. And if this stays the case, then they have won. Sure, we'll be in office, but so what? We'll just be them. Somewhere, Karl Rove is laughing his pallid doughy ass off.

I have no expectation that pointing out that we are just as naked as our loony Emperor will do anything but fall on deaf ears. But the truth needs to be spoken, even if nobody cares, because it is the truth. It is sad, it is embarassing, and we have nobody to blame for it but ourselves.

[monktonman]

1. Guilty as charged.

Why not post more often?
Perhaps you could add something to the debate that would be productive?

[againes654]

2. There are alot of good debates that go on here

There are a lot of highly intellegent people here that have invaluable information and resources. That being said there is a lot of screaming, and no one paying attention. I am sure that I have been guilty of it, and possibly even today. Some of that screaming, at least for me, comes from frustration. Sometimes you just have to wade through all of that. I know that sometimes it can be good for a laugh. Just my opinion.

[redqueen]

6. Exactly... frustration causes this...

and IMO it's better to try to be understanding about that and keep trying to work with each other, and not write each other off as the OP seems to be doing.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

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[Hydra]

3. I post because I feel like I can offer evidence and perspective

And yes, shouting down is fairly common lately. I like to think i make an impact because for each person who shouts, there are probably 5 people who read my posts and say "hmmm"

[redqueen]

4. Not true... it's perspective.

Sure, there are threads where there's no discussion, just back and forth arguing.

But there are others where there is discussion.

You claiming that the arguing makes us "just as naked as our loony Emperor" is what's loony. This is a MESSAGE BOARD, we are not the POTUS.

:wtf:

[monktonman]

7. I think the OP er was getting at the quality of the argument

not the argument itself.
Everyone with half a mellon knows this whole country was founded to be one big argument after another, its how you argue that I think is the posters point.
no?

[redqueen]

8. Maybe that was the point... if so it was poorly expressed IMO. n/t

[monktonman]

9. Arguing about arguing is too argumentative for me

so lets just say.....whatever.

[redqueen]

10. Uhhhh... 'cept I didn't argue...

all I did was say maybe you're right, and gave my opinion.

:shrug:

[monktonman]

12. I'm just trying to make you laugh but if you want a fight.......

oh I'm tired of fighting.
lets just be friends.

[redqueen]

13. No, I don't want to fight.

I didn't see that that was a joke, is all.

Peace.

:hi:

[Vilis Veritas]

5. My compliments to you.

You speak the truth amongst the din of nuanced seperation.

Peace.

[Bitwit1234]

11. I have been posting to try to right the wrongs BUT

after this morning I have made up my mind that the people who are bashing are going to bash. They are republicans in sheep's clothing. What can we do.I am going to ignore all the Hillary hate threads.

[f the letter]

14. This is on point.

We really do need to get past one-liners and unsupported, jingoistic argument on this site. There are so many informative, well-thought-out posts and replies that it is a shame to see so much mediocre debate alongside it. Recommended

[f the letter]

15. shoot evidently it's too late to recommend. sorry

[provis99]

16. Yeah. Too bad we don't move in lockstep like Republicans

Yelling and squabbling is the Democratic way, and I like it. Its when we turn into caricatures of Reagan's commandment "Thou Shalt Not Speak Ill of Another Republican" is when we've lost. Dissent and squabbling: good. Marching to the drumbeat of the Leader, Republican style: bad.

[neutron]

17. Don't lockstop?

Have you been to Daily Kos lately? If you don't move in lockstep
you get Troll rated and thrown off. I'm not talking about taking up "right wing" issues, I'm
talking about supporting a democratic candidate that they hate, or a liberal
media person that they don't like.
All of the regulars all agree the same way on everything. Is that wingnut or what?

[Tresalisa]

19. Those were the reasons I didn't join the Daily Kos.

I lurked there, and I lurked here, and decided here would be a place where I could be of a different opinion on an issue and not get called a rethugiKKKan troll.

Arguments and disagreements are part of politics, whether we like it or not. The yelling and screaming is part of it, too. Hopefully we can all be friends after this, and get back to the important business of getting our government back.

[Back to 92]

20. Looking Around

As opposed to some other blogs and forums, DUers seem to be a bit more "passionate", and somewhat less diplomatic. I think this is a place where people have a chance to air their frustrations, that's not necessarily a bad thing. Lack of dialogue is useless though.

[Mustbeme]

21. Speak On

I just came back after being gone a long time.... things have changed, but this is still a great forum

[buckeyechick1]

22. racist politics in san antonio??

i agree that we democrats tend to hold ourselves back w/ constant infighting. i see it first hand in bexar county. san antonio and south texas big returns for clinton. obama did a great job, but hillary really pushed hard on the latino vote. i think they both would be embarrassed and shocked to see the racist political view of some (hopefully not many!). one is to too many for me! ck out this newsletter that comments on local county politics. below is a little tidbit...

"...are old fashioned Bexar County warriors who are not owned by anybody. It scares folks that Watts is hiring Brent like he is some migrant worker who is going to pick his fruit or cut his yard. Mario is simply the light skinned kid who is going to do the accounting and make sure his boss Watts has his tea served at 3pm. This makes the ladies furious. They know this game because they have cut off a few _____ over the years to get what they want.


I suspect Brent and Mario are close to getting a family jewel adjustment at the hands of JoAnn. Just you watch. One way or the other, there will be hell to pay for crossing JoAnn. If I were Mario or Brent, I'd watch the first Godfather movie to get taste of your future. They are going to LOSE even if they win the election. Why? You do not cross these ladies because they have decades of connections and markers to be called in. You can't expect to raid the party so it will have shiny computers without paying MAMA some respect. You have to pay your dues to the establishment. Mario wants to have it all, but this is not the way it works in Bexar County."

this is so sad... here is the link to the newsletter. scroll down to 'the republicrat.'
http://www.southtexasrepublicans.com/newsletters/newsletter_template_3_04.htm
man, i hope this person is not my democratic party. regardless, comments like these hurt both parties.

[question everything]

23. It is not the Dems, or DU. Rather, it is the anonymity of the Interenet

that allows people to post the most outrageous thing that they would not say in person. At least, one hopes they would not.

[WouldBe Speechwriter]

24. It's also education, biology and TV's influence on people

New TV shows are usually contests and fights. The news blows everything out of proportion to try to get more viewers. Nuance is dead. Our biological imperative for competition is raging. But forums have to try to encourage real discussion. I just joined this DU thing. Hope I find good stuff here. Where are the better posts on it?

[Howzit]

25. Are you saying there is too much emotion and not enough reason?

The problem is intolerance for anyone who doesn't agree on every point. The mentality seems to be: "If you aren't for us, then you are against us". Anyone who makes a good, well founded and reasoned but contrary point is immediately labeled a "puke" or paid disruptor.

We need to focus on common ground and move from there to discus points of difference. There is a lot of common ground with room for almost everyone.

If Democrats can't get along with each other, how do they expect to get along with Republicans? If you think this is irrelevant, the country needs co-operation between parties to run properly.

It is possible to disagree strongly without disrespect.

[otisjf24]

26. Agreed, BUT...

Like mine, it is a big but.

I agree with the original post. There is too much of the infighting here and a lack of discussion. This primary, since it was down to Obama and Clinton, has seemed more like a General Election than a Primary. The attacks and misinformation seems to be coming from everywhere. McCain's people are just sifting through and seeing what is going to be the most effective. Easy money for those campaign people.

I agree that you should be passionate about what you believe. I also think that if something is a pointless attack, it has to be called for what it is and respected as that. An attack is never a discussion. It is saying something to make the other side say something even dumber.

Now, if this forum site wants to sink to that level, there isn't a whole lot a part time poster can do about it. If a regular sees something as a Louisville Slugger on a hornet's nest for no good reason, they should call it and hope that others listen. Especially if they call it on their own "camp", which is how it should be.
If we, as voters, support this type of campaigning, name-calling, past digging, microscopic scrutiny then it will continue to happen. Just like with anything else, we do have the power with our pocket books, and with our votes. We should use that power. A LOT more often than we do. If we sink to levels of mindless screaming and grasping at straws, we are no better than any of the politicians we dislike. Even worse, we throw money and votes at them to tell them that we approve their messages and their tactics.

[bhbwl]

30. Why should we get along with repukes?

They need to be put out, locked out and snuffed out. They have no place in mainstream American political thought. Too much blood on their hands:
-Blood of slavery
-Blood of workers
-Blood of Immigrants
-Blood of minorities
-Blood of countless countries they've oppressed directly or indirectly

They're illegitemate. We should focus our efforts on destroying them completely and making sure they never get back in power to spew their hatred and oppression again.

Destroy repukes and destroy conservatism. Re-educate the red-states. Everything else is secondary.

[Name removed]

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[old mark]

27. I just want to get rid of the fucking republicans

then everyone can fight all they want.

Just win the election first.
("I don't belong to an organized political party.I'm a Democrat.")
mark

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

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[nnn]

28. ..

...

[votervoice]

32. The Communists?

Communists infiltrate the Democratic Party. Get the story here: <http://www.examiner.com/x-1969-Boston-Progressive-Examiner~y2009m1d26-Communist-infiltration-of-Democrats-has-created-identity-crisis-for-Marxists>