Does NO ONE find HR 418 disturbing?

[lala_rawraw]

My god, I have tried all day to get someone to spread the info in my article and no one wants to hear it: Michael Jackson, Gannon, and SS seem more important than our Bill of Rights. CNN is making the bill into a tiny flicker, like a little tiny bill that will simply make sure that illegal aliens cannot get driver’s licenses, promise it won't sting.

Aside from the obvious and glaring issue with this particular scrap, the bill in its entirety is far worse and demands an immediate letter writing campaign to every leader, person, dog, cat, etc., in this country. They are planning to attach it to the Iraq reconstruction bill as a rider, so that it will PASS. Now I ask you to please get this information out. We cannot let this bill pass or we lose our civil rights completely. Am I overreacting? Well, when in the history of this nation have you seen Dems, Libertarians, Gun groups, Southern Republicans, civil rights groups, and so forth come together in protest of a bill? My article link is below. I posted the article earlier in the day, but someone felt it needed to be moved for some inexplicable reason. This bill gives total and final control to Homeland Security/FEMA.

Sorry to rant. I am not remotely angry with anyone here. I am angered by the general disinterest and lack of mobilization with regard to this bill. I ask you to please help. I have written it, take any part you want and get it out. You don’t need to credit me, but please get this out!

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/index.php?p=56

[Colorado Blue]

1. I do! Thanks. I'll write my congresspeople.

[ashmanonar]

2. it's strange to see dems and libs and gun-owners all

on the same side of an issue...maybe this is the first step to opposing the illegal administration!

[0rganism]

3. Sorry, lala, "disturbing" is the new "normal"

For something to grab my attention these days it has to have a certain "zing", disturbing is just too common.

Name ONE THING that's come out of the House in the last 2 years that hasn't been disturbing.

[lala_rawraw]

11. Let me put it this way....

If you do something legal now and in 20 years later the same act is no longer legal, you are retroactively committing a crime. That is DISTRUBING and that is the end of all civil rights, since no one can know what will be a crime, no one will do anything other than go to work and stay home.

However, even if that does not bother you, then what should bother you is that Homeland Security has the right to waive all “laws with regard to the environment, labor laws, and property laws,” to build a barrier. What is a barrier? Good question, apparently it can be a road, a building, or whatever the hell they want to build and it can be built anywhere.

Now, if that does not register on the ultra-disturbing scale, then consider the centralized database of required citizen information. Sure they say illegal aliens cannot get driver’s license on CNN. What they do not say is that all states are required at a “minimum” to demand proof of citizenship from ALL citizens. What then is above “minimum” that will be provided to a central db? How about, say, tax records? Or, what guns you own? Or, what political party you are with or medical records?

[napi21]

76. Much of this bill sounds like it won't pass a court challenge.

I know it would be better not to pass it in the first place, but even if it does, I suspect the first time there is a challenge, it'll be gone.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

78. They're scrapping ex post facto? How? (nt)

[Swamp Rat]

80. Eu não sei.... quem poderia saber?

Aparentemente ela é um oráculo que pode ver no futuro. Pessoalmente, eu não tenho a confiança em meu governo, nada!

Esta lei é anti-democrática!!! :mad:

[ashmanonar]

95. sorry, i don't speak...swampratish....

could you translate?

:D

[Sliverofhope]

4. Yes, I do

My threads on it have been ignored as well.

[housewolf]

5. And mine... n/t

[primavera]

50. And mine...

This is a strange time. Traditionally the champions of the oppressed, Dems seem to have traded places with Repukes on the question of rights for immigrants and asylum seekers. Repukes are the ones pushing for immigration reform, while many DUers have indicated in their posts that we ought to be beefing up border patrols, deporting people en masse, and stripping immigrants of basic legal protections. Strange times indeed.

[Just Me]

49. Mine tanked, too. The Republicans TRASHED the Constitution,...

,...with this little gem of fascist legislation!

The most disturbing part is contained in Section 102 which gives the Homeland Security Secretary unbridled power to suspend ALL laws.

Who needs martial law if HS can suspend laws? :shrug:

I am just hoping the Senate KILLS, KILLS, KILLS this bill!!!

[fryguy]

6. I'm numb from the number of things from this Congress & WH that disturb me

But I think you're fear of our complete loss of civil rights due to this bill might be a bit of chicken little-esqe fear. I think its more hypocritical of republicans, the party that invented the term "unfunded mandates", to be pressing for this enormous unfunded mandate. That aside, however, given that in today's world "proper" ID is a necessity, whether it be for getting on a plane or entering certain buildings, I think it is necessary for there to be an official form instituted instead of allowing something that was designed merely for regulatory purposes to become the de facto ID. Yes, that begins to sound like I'm favoring the dreaded "national ID" - but I don't see this as any more intrusive than using a drivers license as such and it creates a standardized system without forcing states to adjust their licensing procedures.

If we are going to live in a world were we are asked for ID to get on a plane, or a train, or into certain public places and buildings, it is worth making sure that the ID is proper.

Of course this whole discussion is moot since without cross-referencing IDs with some database or watch list is pointless as a simple guard or security agent does little more than look at a picture on a card and compare it to the holder.... no great safety in that.

[satya]

8. I worry more about Section 102 than the ID card. nt

[satya]

7. Thanks for the kick in the butt!

You're absolutely right, this bill is atrocious.

And I'm guilty of doing nothing about except scribble notes on scraps of paper--no letters, no phone calls, no emails. And I can't help but wonder if the timing of the "Gannon" thing is designed to keep us looking the other way while they piss on our Constitution AGAIN.

And I don't want to see them giving more of our money for "reconstruction" until they account for what they've gotten already--it's not getting to the people that need it.

[Sliverofhope]

10. kick

How do we get people to pay attention to this?

[paineinthearse]

9. Appears I was the only DU'er watching CSPAN today

See http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3085432&mesg_id=3085432

[lala_rawraw]

13. Going to sleep for 4 years....

We talked to Paul. There is a back-story to this, some of which I was able to report on in the article. Clearly something happened in that closed door meeting today.

We need to write everyone, news media, everyone!!!! CNN and other MSM, and of course Faux news, are spreading this as some sort of great 9/11 reform and move towards safety in the name of God and country or some crap of that nature.

This is BS spin. I was going to be on Ed Shultz today, to try and get this out. Instead, he wanted to talk about 9/11 victims' reactions to the NYT article (I am a person directly affected by 9/11, but I won't be a victim). The point is, the urgency of the bill is what I wanted to discuss, not my own feelings about a story that 9/11 people have known for years. I even wrote little summary statements for each provision of the bill and offered to explain it off air. Clearly, it was not important enough, and the whole time, each break, CNN is providing the little victory summary of this bill in that hop-scotch voice happily pre-recorded and pre-packed and provided to Air America.

I sent it to everyone I could find and again, the only thing I was invited to talk about was Gannon, which is not a story I wrote, researched, or have enough background in to discuss other than what I have read by the people who actually wrote it. Those people should be discussing it, not me. It is their hard work and it is their story to discuss and it is their opinion that should be requested and their expertise on this story that should be provided.

That is, however, not even the point. The point is this: if we do not have a quick response conduit type system from independent press to other independent media, we will never get the truth out. Gannon could have waited another day while we tried to stop this from passing by calling our Congressional leaders, writing to them, emailing CNN demanding a full correction of their misinformation, etc.

I posted the article here and it was moved somewhere and for some reason I have yet to grasp.

Now the right wingnuts did read it and of course, per the usual, I got my lovely hate mail and more freeper discussions at the freeper forum (they really hate me over there, lmao). Yet the left… where the hell is the left?

I am so sick of the right stealing my work, smearing me, sending me hate mail. I am also sick of the left just simply working in niche groups, competing for this or that when we need to work together. I am sick of the left's interest in scandal over urgent fact, and I am sick of the left simply dismissing their own. I feel smashed by both sides and I am frankly quite tired.

[Daphne08]

82. I watched and was shocked!

Yes, we do need to address the problem of our borders, but this bill is a real mystery to me. (I don't know when it is supposed to go to the Senate, but I've read that it might be attached to another bill.)

I'm not particularly sophisticated and I'm certainly not an attorney, but the way I see it, this bill leaves the door open to at least two very dangerous possibilities.

1) The likelihood that we will all be required to hold a Driver's License (national RFID ID card in reality) that would be listed in a centralized government database with possibly other sensitive information about us. This could be accessed by any local policeman, librarian, airline agent, etc., or anyone to whom we would need to present the license. (I realize that this is probably already the case, but I can visualize a future day in which we might have to provide fingerprints, DNA, etc.) It simply leaves too much to chance, and more importantly, it supersedes the states' role.

2)"H.R.418 REAL ID Act of 2005 (Introduced in House) SEC. 102. WAIVER OF LAWS NECESSARY FOR IMPROVEMENT OF BARRIERS AT BORDERS." (Forgive caps, but that is the way it was written on http://thomas.loc.gov. ) Especially disturbing in Section 102 is the wording... it waives all laws in granting the Secretary of Homeland Security unlimited power in the protection of our borders. Now, once again, I'm certainly not against protecting our borders, but I am against granting unlimited power (waiver of all laws) to anyone, much less a person who has not been elected. One can only imagine the danger and the possibilites for abuse.

Please, someone correct me if I am wrong concerning anything about this.

[Tux]

12. Emailed my guys

Only one actually reads them though.

[crispini]

14. kick

:kick:

[Kool Kitty]

15. Kick for the late-night crew.

Jesus. This is bad. (Your story is great, though.) I was going to start raving about the lack of MSM coverage of it, but what's the friggin' point. I didn't hear about it until I got here and read this. (Loooonnnggg day at work, unfortunately.) Everybody read and pass this along. I will.

[donheld]

16. I find it very disturbing

Other than writing senators, congresspeople etc. i feel very helpless.

[Pachamama]

17. I have been expecting this and I think its just the beginning....

of many such bills and laws giving more and more power and control to Homeland Security and FEMA. Our civil liberties and personal freedom will continue to be resticted more and more and the clueless Americans will all allow it in the name of Terrorism.

What scares me even more than this bill and others like it, are the laws being enacted that are less out in the open and buried in various bills in an obscure way...We are all being "cooked" slowly and most can't tell...

:scared:

[RBHam]

18. Soon, all the pieces will be in place...

A Defacto Police State...

"Citizen? Your papers please..."

[neweurope]

20. With HR 418 the pieces ARE in place. No more will be needed.

-----------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[Pachamama]

21. I think they are still missing a few pieces, but I'm sure it's just around

the corner....

What are people in Germany saying about all of what is happening here?

[neweurope]

22. They are afraid of more wars which will not leave us untouched. BUT they

have NO IDEA what's happening to your civil rights. When I talk to my German friends - all of them intelligent, well read and compassionate people - about what's happening in the US they tell me that I surely exaggerate. But then I'm the only one of them who reads blogs... German media follow the US main stream media in most things. That's why I've been suggesting it's important for US "dissidents" to speak directly to German media.

Bush is hated over here like no man before him. But most people aren't even familiar with the names of much more dangerous Rove + Cheney. And you understand that the US weren't exactly loved in the pre-Bush area. That may be one more reason why people aren't all that interested in your civil rights (I haven't heard anybody say so, though).

And our big business is only interested in protecting their US interests. Sorry and ashamed that I cannot paint a rosier picture.

:hug:

--------------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[Pachamama]

23. Perhaps I should write them...and I speak German andmy family

escaped Nazi Germany and shared with me my own family's experiences when Germans lost their civil rights in the 1930's...maybe if I jog their collective memories and remind them of how many get affected, even outside a country's border, they might pay more attention....

:scared:

[neweurope]

26. Yes indeed you should - for starters you could write a letter and give it

to me per PM - and I distribute it wherever I can?

:scared:

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Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[Pachamama]

61. I'll try in the next week to compose something....

I got Pachababies so, my time is little, but I'll make this something to focus on doing....

In German or English?

Yeah, things are pretty bad here and its almost surreal....those of us that are aware (I think about 10% really realize how bad things are) are sick to our stomachs. Then about another 15-20% realize its real bad, but are not sure what to do and are kinda waiting to see what happens and for some kind of "sign" of when they really need to worry (even though technically, the signs are everywhere, but they just don't know what to do or can't do anything). Then there is another 20% that hates Bush, but are living in denial of how bad things are, because accepting reality is too scary for them and self-preservation is prevailing, although its not really self-preservation, its more like being an Ostrich and sticking ones head in a hole...Finally there is the 48-50% of this country that voted for Bush....This is composed of some people who don't agree w/ Bush, especially fiscally, but they like the rest of Bush voters buy into fear, fear and more fear. Then ofcourse there are the clueless minions that because they have always called themselves Republicans (like their parents and grandparents) don't even bother to recognize that this GOP is not what it used to be and most have no clue who and what PNAC is and won't bother to educate themselves. And then we have the Christian Right wing-nuts (aka the American Taliban) who are waiting for the RAPTURE and think that Bush was chosen by GOD and that Bush talks with God....sigh...its so crazy here....

[neweurope]

72. Hi Pachamama! If German doesn't come all that easy to you then I'll

gladly translate.

I loved the term "Pachababies" :)

:hug:

----------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[Swamp Rat]

24. You need to tell EVERYONE you know about PNAC!!!

These guys are the new Nazis of the 4th Reich. Seriously.

Demopedia link:

http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/index.php/PNAC

Check out this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2137401

[neweurope]

27. *sigh* I HAVE until my mouth was dry. They DO NOT BELIEVE it.

I discovered PNAC right after 9/11 "Pearl Harbour" and that's when I began to get on everybody's nerves. It really gets me down when people 1.) not believe what I say and 2.) not check it out for themselves... However I'm not giving up.

What I forgot to mention above was the following: As long as DEMOCRATS keep voting right along these fascists - who's gonna believe poor little neweurope...? Even the opposition agrees - so it CANNOT be all that bad. That's why I often think that the Democrats are more dangerous than the Republicans.

---------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[Swamp Rat]

79. Don't give up!

Make copies of a synopsis of PNAC... better yet, YOU make your own synopsis translated into German so that everyone there can read it, especially older folks who didn't learn English, yet remember life before, during, and after the fall of the Third Reich. In your synopsis you might quote statements by German citizens who describe how they didn't or couldn't believe in what was happening around them. Demonstrate to them all parallels laid before us and DEMAND that German citizens, WHO KNOW BETTER than anyone else, recognize and acknowledge the birth of the Fourth Reich in America.

Viel Glück mein Freund!

[neweurope]

81. Good idea swamp rat - I'll do this!

---------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[neweurope]

19. Combined with PATRIOT I + II this is the scariest stuff I've read so far

about your country. Everybody who believes this is "oh not all that bad" must wake up immediately! lala_rawraw has stated EXACTLY the danger you're all in.

My goodness! Once this law is passed they can declare the Democratic Party illegal. Or just this forum (which is much, much more dangerous to the Bushistas then these Vichy Dems who VOTE right along the Bushistas every damn time...!) Then you have retroactively committed a crime. And the borders will be closed. Wake up! Do you REALLY think they won't go that far?

It might not be a bad idea to also contact foreign journalists directly. Most German newspapers at least get their news from AP and some might look at WP and NYT and that's it.

----------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[Nimrod]

25. They say "Border Fence"

I hear "Berlin Wall".

Sometimes, late at night, when nobody's around, I will occasionally catch myself looking forward to the day the world nations unite against us and take us the hell down. We deserve no less.

[neweurope]

28. That's EXACTLY what I've been thinking all morning -

"Mr. Gorbatchev, tear this wall down" is getting a totally new meaning...

----------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[primavera]

65. Now for that, I suspect, we could gather a coalition of the willing

At the rate we're going, just about every other country on earth will perceive their national secruity to be directly linked to stopping our bloody rampage.

[neweurope]

75. Not as long as the US Democrats are silent. They are supposed to be

the opposition in your country. As long as they don't complain and even VOTE for these laws you'll find no help outside. :(

-----------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[ashmanonar]

94. you're right, NE.

i don't suppose that everyone else will stand up to the us military just for shits and giggles. they have to be shown that there is opposition to bush's policies. and in our gov't, there is NO opposition, barring a few brave acts.

[ashmanonar]

91. yea, that's something i see in the future myself.

i've posted something to that effect before: something along the lines of "can you imagine dutch troops liberating new york, and iranians and syrians and omanis liberating la? germans rooting out and capturing the last small groups of fascists in their hiding places in atlanta and dallas, and finnish ski troops in colorado?

scary thing is that this could be something that could happen.

[MountainLaurel]

29. Yes

My SO is a policy analyst on immigration topics. He read this thing weeks ago: Sensenbrenner's bill and the more insidious portions of it (like the parts about the absolute authority they're giving to border patrol -- martial law, anyone?) have been something he's been speaking out against for a while. He's posted about the issue several times on DU as well, but with the focus on this Gannon guy and abortion-a-go-go in GD, everything sank to the bottom. Except of course for the illegal immigration thread where many people supported this measure (guess they didn't get into the fine print).

[SmokingJacket]

30. Actually, people have been ranting about this for months, particularly

the national ID part. Maybe that's why no one's responding.

But thanks for the link: I wasn't aware of the Patriot II provision that will allow Homeland Security to decide which groups can be labeled "terrorist" -- EVEN RETROACTIVELY. Thus, if someone at Greenpeace sinks a fishing boat or something, the HS Czar can label Greenpeace a terrorist organization, and YOU, who donated to them last year before the fishing boat fiasco, have supported a terrorist group and are subject to whatever punishment they decide for you.

The aim of this is to quash political dissent, sure as shootin, and to persuade you to keep your bucks in your pocket or maybe only donate to republican-safe causes (like a non-muslim, non-liberal church).

[WilliamPitt]

31. We do

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/021105X.shtml

[lala_rawraw]

44. I know you guys are...

The indie press is doing its job. The "people" need to do the ground work. This is going to be attached as a rider on the Iraq bill and they will spin it as "the Dems don't want to help the Iraqi people" via the usual suspects.

Please read the white house letter on this as well:
http://rawstory.com/news/2005/index.php?p=49

[MountainLaurel]

56. Thanks Will

Non-MSM sites are one of the few sources I trust these days. Same with others: Truthout was mentioned on my library school listserv as a recommended news source.

[Redneck Socialist]

32. I don't think this bill is going to pass

It is so over the top nutty, even for these guys, that a lot of pubs are made nervous by it.

That is not to say that we should stop paying attention to efforts like this. We definitely need to badger our elected officials and bring it up in the media every chance we get.

This bill won't pass but it is a good example of what sort of ideas are floating around in their evil little minds.

[Casandra]

33. I.D. Cards on the way

I hope this isn't a duplicate, but I saw it this evening on the C-net website.

Today, the House passed a bill setting up rules that will <without a doubt> lead to I.D. cards having to be issued to each and every citizen of each and every state. These cards will contain all kinds of info about us, from our driving records to who knows what.. but you can bet this is on it's way to the Senate. It could and most likely force each state to issue these cards, whether the citizens like it or not. Without these cards, you can't enter a government building, get on a plane, enter a state park etc.

Our privacy, soon to be a thing of the past!

[Us vs Them]

34. I wonder if a passport will be an acceptable form of ID?

I carry mine almost everywhere. I didn't even have a state issued license for quite a while, but the one I just got complies with all the standards specified by this bill. Most states already do - or so the reasoning goes. But I'd be interested to read the exact language. They're fond of slipping things in.

[RBHam]

35. Citizen! May I see your papers?

Who's a wacko conspiracy theorist now?

[Sugarbleus]

36. Wow, I haven't seen anything on this issue for several weeks

Soooooo, "they" are still trying to pass this crap??? Last time we discussed this it was about making driver's licenses THEE one card; used for everything.

Gee-menee-Karissmas, this is the living end. Wasn't the same idea bantered about in the UK? Weren't the people there opposed to it? I forget.

Who is pushing this idea, Dems or repubs? Seems like the religious right repubs would fall back and shriek at such an idea: MARK OF THE BEAST et al.

Is C-net a credible website?

[Oggy]

37. It is still on the go over here in the UK

The house of Lords is expected to kick out the first piece of legislation and there is already some real opposition which will built on. I would imagine there are lots of people like myself who would refuse to have one.

[Sugarbleus]

39. Yikes!

I'm sorry to hear that, more than I can express. Give 'em hell and keep us posted.

BTW, is the idea of National ID cards being pushed anywhere else in Europe? I'm afraid I've not been paying much attention to Euro politics lately.

The whole thing is quite alarming.

[Oggy]

41. Already common in some countries

Spain for example. I don't think any European countries include biometrics though. That's what I object to along with the sort of data they want to tie in. I don't object to a piece of ID with say a photo. Oh just a min, already got one of those, it's called a passport!

[neweurope]

69. Germany will :((((( The US pressures the European countries. But I'm

afraid Germany didn't need to be pressured hard. Schily (our Minister of the Interior) had just been waiting for this :(

------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[RBHam]

38. 9-11 : the Right Wing Gift that keeps on giving...

Cui bono?

[theresistance]

40. The Police State is coming fast

Resist now before it is too late

[SouthernDem2004]

42. Are you talking about a National ID card or a standardized D\L?

[SouthernDem2004]

43. Lol, you guys are freaking out over nothing.

This is the resolution about the National Drivers license not some spooky National ID. This resolution is trying to setup a standardized drivers license, nothing more. Law Enforcement has been pushing for this for decades. Having 50 different D/Ls is a pain for LE. It makes it hard to tell which ones are fake.

[rodeodance]

45. it is the first step to National ID cards-make NO mistake!

[lala_rawraw]

46. Read the article....

Good god, just read my article, the article in TruthOut and tell me this is "nothing."

My article:
http://rawstory.com/news/2005/index.php?p=56

White House Letter:
http://rawstory.com/news/2005/index.php?p=49

TruthOut
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/021105X.shtml

Read those things then tell me it is nothing. K?

[lala_rawraw]

48. Oh I forgot...

Read this:

http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2005/02/bigger-target.html

Or go to the ACLU Web site. Or here is a full list of who opposes this bill:

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/index.php?p=46

Or read the actual bill:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:H.R.418:

[SouthernDem2004]

51. I am well aware of the sections pertaining to the national D/L standard.

[primavera]

47. Read the fine print

HR 418, section 102: "The Secretary of Homeland Security shall have the authority to waive, and shall waive, all laws such Secretary, in such Secretary's sole discretion, determines necessary..." Thanks to this section, the Secretary of Homeland Security, or his or her authorized agent, could do literally anything, say, for instance, execute a US citizen without trial, and it would be perfectly legal if the Secretary deemed it necessary for preserving the integrity of the border.

Moving on to subparagraph 2...

"NO JUDICIAL REVIEW. No court shall have jurisdiction to hear any case or claim arising from any action undertaken, or any decision made, by the Secretary of Homeland Security..." In other words, when the secret police come to torture you to death, no court shall have standing to hear your complaint. This still sounding good to you?

Okay, how about section 202(c)(3), verification of documents prior to issuing a driver's license? "Before issuing a driver's license or identification card, the State shall verify, with the issuing agency, the issuance, validity, and completeness of each document required..." So, in other words, before they can accept any document you submit for purposes of identifying yourself, state DMVs will have to verify with "the issuing agency." So, what, they're going to call up the hospital where you were born to see if your birth certificate is valid? How the hell is the hospital going to know after decades have gone by? What kind of a bottleneck do you suppose that's going to put in processing applications for driver's licenses? How are legal immigrants with foreign documents supposed to meet this verification requirement? Oh yeah, that's right, subparagraph (B): "The State shall not accept any foreign document..."

Or how about "Subject each person applying for a driver's license to mandatory facial image capture." No need for privacy here, unless you're willing to entrust your private information to big brother, you can't legally drive. But hey, we're just freaking out over nothing, right? Glad to hear that you at least won't mind any of these constraints.

[Just Me]

55. It gives the Homeland Security more power than all 3 branches of gvt

That should scare the living shit out of every single American citizen!!!

:scared:

[MountainLaurel]

57. Thank you for pointing this out

I think that the vast majority of Americans (at least those who actually read a news source) see the headlines about a national ID card and don't look any deeper. It's usually in the detail where the scary shit appears.

[SouthernDem2004]

60. I see no problem with the D\L provisions.

[primavera]

62. Hmm, so long delays in issuing DLs and

...large numbers of lawfully present people perfectly capable of driving safely being denied the right to drive because their lawfully issued identity documents can't be verified poses no problem as far as you can see, huh? Hmm, well, okay, to each his own. I'll be sure to remind you of that when you try to get a driver's license and the state refuses to give you one because the hospital where you were born closed and is no longer around to verify your birth certificate. I'm sure you'll enjoy taking the bus.

[ashmanonar]

96. wow...

"Subject each person applying for a driver's license to mandatory facial image capture."

did they have to make it sound that spooky and, well, criminal? couldn't they have said "each person applying must furnish a full facial photograph?"

[neweurope]

70. Have you read the rest??

----------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[paineinthearse]

52. Transcript of yesterday's proceedings

This serves as an index. Go to it and click on "printer friendly" to see the speeches.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?r109:22:./temp/~r109Y4P6Mt::

REAL ID ACT OF 2005 -- (House of Representatives - February 10, 2005)
Page: H536
IN THE COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE
TITLE I--AMENDMENTS TO FEDERAL LAWS TO PROTECT AGAINST TERRORIST ENTRY
Page: H537
Page: H538
Page: H539
TITLE II--IMPROVED SECURITY FOR DRIVERS' LICENSES AND PERSONAL IDENTIFICATION...
Page: H540
AMENDMENT NO. 1 OFFERED BY MR. SESSIONS
Mr. SESSIONS. Mr. Chairman, I offer an amendment.
Page: H541
Mr. SESSIONS. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
Page: H542
Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may...
Mr. SESSIONS. Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 minutes to the gentleman from Texas (Mr....
Mr. SMITH of Texas. Mr. Chairman, I strongly support the Sessions amendment....
Page: H543
Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 minutes to the gentleman from...
Mr. THOMPSON of Mississippi. Mr. Chairman, a better amendment title for this...
Mr. SESSIONS. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to the gentlewoman from Florida...
Ms. GINNY BROWN-WAITE of Florida. Mr. Chairman, I rise today in very strong...
Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may...
Mr. SESSIONS. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may...
Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I thank the manager on the Democratic side for...
Mr. SESSIONS. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield? Page: H544
Mr. CONYERS. I yield to the gentleman from Texas.
Mr. SESSIONS. Mr. Chairman, I thank the gentleman for asking.
Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I need my friend to know that they are in the...
AMENDMENT NO. 2 OFFERED BY MR. CASTLE
Mr. CASTLE. Mr. Chairman, I offer an amendment.
Mr. CASTLE. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may...
Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. Chairman, clearly this amendment has good...
Page: H545
Mr. CASTLE. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself 1 minute, because I think the...
Mr. SHAYS. Mr. Chairman, I thank the gentleman for yielding me time.
Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may...
Mr. CASTLE. Mr. Chairman, will the gentlewoman yield?
Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. I yield to the gentleman from Delaware.
Mr. CASTLE. Mr. Chairman, I thank the gentlewoman for her good questions and...
Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. Chairman, reclaiming my time, let me pointedly...
Mr. CASTLE. Yes.
Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. The gentleman is talking about actually trial and...
Mr. CASTLE. If the gentlewoman will yield further, it speaks very specifically...
Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. Chairman, reclaiming my time and I would simply...
Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, will the gentlewoman yield?
Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. I yield to the gentleman from Michigan.
Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I just wanted to ask the author of the amendment,...
Mr. CASTLE. Mr. Chairman, if the gentlewoman would yield further, no, I would...
Mr. CASTLE. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may...
Page: H546
Mr. POE. Mr. Chairman, I rise in support of the amendment by my colleague from...
Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. Chairman, I yield back my time.
AMENDMENT NO. 3 OFFERED BY MR. KOLBE
Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Chairman, I offer an amendment.
TITLE III--BORDER INFRASTRUCTURE AND TECHNOLOGY INTEGRATION
Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself of such time as I may consume.
Page: H547
Mrs. DAVIS of California. Mr. Chairman, although I support the amendment, I ask...
Mrs. DAVIS of California. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may...
Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.
Mrs. DAVIS of California. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to the gentleman from...
Mr. ORTIZ. Mr. Chairman, let me thank the gentleman from Arizona (Mr....
Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to the distinguished gentleman from...
Mr. FLAKE. Mr. Chairman, I thank my colleague for yielding me this time. And I...
Page: H548
Mrs. DAVIS of California. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to the gentlewoman...
Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. Chairman, I rise in support of the Kolbe...
Mr. KOLBE. Mr. Chairman, I yield back the balance of my time.
Mrs. DAVIS of California. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may...
AMENDMENT NO. 4 OFFERED BY MR. NADLER
Mr. NADLER. Mr. Chairman, I offer an amendment.
Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Mr. Chairman, I claim the time in opposition.
Mr. NADLER. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
Page: H549
Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
Page: H550
Mr. NADLER. Mr. Chairman, I yield for the purposes of making a unanimous...
Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, I want to thank the gentleman from Florida (Mr....
Mr. NADLER. Mr. Chairman, I yield 1 1/2 minutes to the distinguished gentleman...
Mr. MEEK of Florida. Mr. Chairman, it is very hard for me to respond to what...
Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 1/2 minutes to the gentleman from...
Page: H551
Mr. HOSTETTLER. Mr. Chairman, I rise in opposition to this amendment.
Mr. NADLER. Mr. Chairman, I yield 1 1/2 minutes to the distinguished...
Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. Chairman, I thank the distinguished gentleman...
Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Mr. Chairman, I have the right to close and will close after...
Mr. NADLER. Mr. Chairman, how much time remains?
Page: H552
Mr. NADLER. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 1/2 minutes to the distinguished gentleman...
Mr. SMITH of New Jersey. Mr. Chairman, I thank the gentleman for yielding.
Mr. NADLER. Mr. Chairman, I grant myself the remainder of the time.
Mr. NADLER. Mr. Chairman, the gentleman from New Jersey and other speakers have...
Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself the balance of the time.
Mr. PICKERING. Mr. Chairman, during the debate of the REAL ID Act of 2005, of...
Mr. SMITH of Texas. Mr. Chairman, I strongly oppose the Nadler amendment, which...
Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Mr. Chairman, and I yield back the balance of my time.
Mr. NADLER. Mr. Chairman, I demand a recorded vote.
Page: H553
AMENDMENT NO. 5 OFFERED BY MR. FARR
Mr. FARR. Mr. Chairman, I offer an amendment.
Mr. FARR. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
Page: H554
Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, will the gentleman yield?
Mr. FARR. I yield to the gentleman from Michigan.
Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, what I would like to find out, if the gentleman...
Mr. FARR. Mr. Chairman, it has never been done before, waiving all labor laws,...
Mr. CONYERS. I thank the gentleman.
Mr. FARR. Mr. Chairman, how much time do I have remaining?
Mr. FARR. Mr. Chairman, I reserve the balance of my time.
Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume.
Mr. FARR. Mr. Chairman, I yield 1 minute to the distinguished gentlewoman from...
Ms. HARMAN. Mr. Chairman, many on this side of the aisle also support strong...
Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Mr. Chairman, I yield 3 minutes to the gentleman from...
Mr. HUNTER. Mr. Chairman, I thank the gentleman for yielding me the time.
Page: H555
Mr. FARR. Mr. Chairman, how much time do we have remaining?
Mr. FARR. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself such time as I may consume to respond,...
Mr. KILDEE. Mr. Chairman, I rise in favor of the Farr amendment. This bill...
Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to the gentleman from...
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Mr. Chairman, the gentleman from California (Mr....
Mr. FARR. Mr. Chairman, how much time do I have remaining?
Mr. FARR. Mr. Chairman, I yield 1 minute to the distinguished gentleman from...
Mr. BLUMENAUER. Mr. Chairman, I yield to nobody my concern that this bill has...
Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Mr. Chairman, I yield 2 minutes to the gentleman from...
Mr. DREIER. Mr. Chairman, I thank my friend for yielding me this time, ...
Page: H556
Mr. FARR. Mr. Chairman, I yield 30 seconds to the gentleman from Minnesota (Mr....
Mr. OBERSTAR. Mr. Chairman, no person in our country should be given unfettered...
Mr. FARR. Mr. Chairman, I yield myself the balance of my time.
MEMORANDUM
Page: H557
Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Mr. Chairman, I yield the balance of my time to the...
Mr. ROYCE. Mr. Chairman, as chairman of the Subcommittee on International...
Mrs. DAVIS of California. Mr. Chairman, I want to thank my colleague from...
Mr. BOEHLERT. Mr. Chairman, today I rise to express my concern over a provision...
Mr. FARR. Mr. Chairman, I demand a recorded vote. Page: H558
SEQUENTIAL VOTES POSTPONED IN COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE
AMENDMENT NO. 4 OFFERED BY MR. NADLER
RECORDED VOTE
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE ACTING CHAIRMAN
Mrs. BLACKBURN, Mrs. JOHNSON of Connecticut, and Messrs. REYNOLDS, SODREL,...
Mr. BASS. Mr. Chairman, on rollcall No. 28 I was unavoidably detained. Had I...
AMENDMENT NO. 5 OFFERED BY MR. FARR
RECORDED VOTE
Page: H559
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE ACTING CHAIRMAN
Mr. MURTHA and Mr. SHAYS changed their vote from ``no'' to ``aye.''
Ms. JACKSON-LEE of Texas. Mr. Chairman, I recognize the importance of having...
Mr. UDALL of Colorado. Mr. Chairman, I cannot in good conscience vote for the...
Mr. ISSA. Mr. Chairman, I rise today in strong support of H.R. 418, the REAL ID...
Page: H560
Mr. BLUMENAUER. Mr. Chairman, today's bill would not be nearly as flawed or...
Ms. ROYBAL-ALLARD. Mr. Chairman, I rise in opposition to H.R. 418 the REAL ID...
Mr. GRAVES. Mr. Chairman, I come to the floor today to speak in support of the...
Mr. ETHERIDGE. Mr. Chairman, I rise today in opposition to H.R. 418.
Page: H561
Mrs. CUBIN. Mr. Chairman, on September 11th, the terrorists didn't just use box...
Mr. STARK. Mr. Chairman, I'm starting to wonder if the Republican Majority was...
Mr. SHUSTER. Mr. Chairman, I rise today in support of the underlying...
Mr. DINGELL. Mr. Chairman, I rise in strong opposition to H.R. 418, the REAL ID...
Page: H562
Mr. HOLT. Mr. Chairman, I rise in opposition to H.R. 418, the REAL ID Act. This...
Mr. MEEHAN. Mr. Chairman, I rise to oppose H.R. 418, the REAL ID Act. This bill...
Mr. BILIRAKIS. Mr. Chairman, I rise today in strong support of H.R. 418, the...
Page: H563
Mr. GOODLATTE. Mr. Chairman, I rise today in support of h.r. 418, the REAL ID...
Mr. BACA. Mr. Chairman, I rise in strong opposition of this bill.
Mr. RYUN of Kansas. Mr. Chairman, on September 11, we were attacked by...
Mr. PAUL. Mr. Chairman, I rise in strong opposition to H.R. 418, the REAL ID...
Mr. GUTIERREZ. Mr. Chairman, I rise today in strong opposition to H.R. 418. The...
Page: H564
Mr. HONDA. Mr. Chairman, I rise today to strongly oppose H.R. 418, the REAL ID...
MOTION TO RECOMMIT OFFERED BY MR. REYES
Mr. REYES. Mr. Speaker, I offer a motion to recommit.
Mr. REYES. I am, Mr. Speaker, in its present form.
Mr. SENSENBRENNER (during the reading). Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent...
Mr. REYES. Mr. Speaker, this motion to recommit provides for restrictions on...
Page: H565
Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Mr. Speaker, I rise in opposition to the motion to recommit.
Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Mr. Speaker, this bill does not require the States to do...
RECORDED VOTE
Mr. REYES. Mr. Speaker, I demand a recorded vote.
Page: H566
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE SPEAKER PRO TEMPORE
Mr. SENSENBRENNER. Mr. Speaker, on that I demand the yeas and nays.
ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE SPEAKER PRO TEMPORE
Mrs. DAVIS of California changed her vote from ``yea'' to ``nay.''
Mr. FERGUSON. Mr. Speaker, I missed the vote on final passage of H.R. 418. Had...

[paineinthearse]

54. Floor speech by Ron Paul, R-Texas 14

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?r109:22:./temp/~r109Y4P6Mt:e282169:

Mr. Paul opposes HR418 on the ground of invasion of personal identity rights. Please share with republicans, libertarinans and other conservatives.

==============

Mr. PAUL. Mr. Chairman, I rise in strong opposition to H.R. 418, the REAL ID Act. This bill purports to make us safer from terrorists who may sneak into the United States, and from other illegal immigrants. While I agree that these issues are of vital importance, this bill will do very little to make us more secure. It will not address our real vulnerabilities. It will, however, make us much less free. In reality, this bill is a Trojan horse. It pretends to offer desperately needed border control in order to stampede Americans into sacrificing what is uniquely American: our constitutionally protected liberty.

What is wrong with this bill?

The REAL ID Act establishes a national ID card by mandating that States include certain minimum identification standards on driver's licenses. It contains no limits on the government's power to impose additional standards. Indeed, it gives authority to the Secretary of Homeland Security to unilaterally add requirements as he sees fit.

Supporters claim it is not a national ID because it is voluntary. However, any State that opts out will automatically make non-persons out of its citizens. The citizens of that State will be unable to have any dealings with the Federal Government because their ID will not be accepted. They will not be able to fly or to take a train. In essence, in the eyes of the Federal Government they will cease to exist. It is absurd to call this voluntary.

Republican Party talking points on this bill, which claim that this is not a national ID card, nevertheless endorse the idea that ``the Federal Government should set standards for the issuance of birth certificates and sources of identification such as driver's licenses.'' So they admit that they want a national ID but at the same time pretend that this is not a national ID.

This bill establishes a massive, centrally coordinated database of highly personal information about American citizens: at a minimum their name, date of birth, place of residence, Social Security number, and physical and possibly other characteristics. What is even more disturbing is that, by mandating that states participate in the Drivers License Agreement, this bill creates a massive database of sensitive information on American citizens that will be shared with Canada and Mexico.

This bill could have a chilling effect on the exercise of our constitutionally guaranteed rights. It re-defines ``terrorism'' in broad new terms that could well include members of firearms rights and anti-abortion groups, or other such groups as determined by whoever is in power at the time. There are no prohibitions against including such information in

the database as information about a person's exercise of first amendment rights or about a person's appearance on a registry of firearms owners.

This legislation gives authority to the Secretary of Homeland Security to expand required information on driver's licenses, potentially including such biometric information as retina scans, fingerprints, DNA information, and even radio frequency identification, RFID, radio tracking technology. Including such technology as RFID would mean that the Federal Government, as well as the governments of Canada and Mexico, would know where Americans are at all time of the day and night.

There are no limits on what happens to the database of sensitive information on Americans once it leaves the United States for Canada and Mexico--or perhaps other countries. Who is to stop a corrupt foreign government official from selling or giving this information to human traffickers or even terrorists? Will this uncertainty make us feel safer?

What will all of this mean for us? When this new program is implemented, every time we are required to show our driver's license we will, in fact, be showing a national identification card. We will be handing over a card that includes our personal and likely biometric information, information which is connected to a national and international database.

H.R. 418 does nothing to solve the growing threat to national security posed by people who are already in the U.S. illegally. Instead, H.R. 418 states what we already know: that certain people here illegally are ``deportable.'' But it does nothing to mandate deportation.

Although Congress funded an additional 2,000 border guards last year, the administration has announced that it will only ask for an additional 210 guards. Why are we not pursuing these avenues as a way of safeguarding our country? Why are we punishing Americans by taking away their freedoms instead of making life more difficult for those who would enter our country illegally?

H.R. 418 does what legislation restricting firearm ownership does. It punishes law abiding citizens. Criminals will ignore it. H.R. 418 offers us a false sense of greater security at the cost of taking a gigantic step toward making America a police state.

I urge my colleagues to vote ``no'' on the REAL ID Act of 2005.

Transcript is also available at http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2005/cr020905.htm

[sarcasmo]

53. Strong ties to Fallwell and Dobson stuck out to me in that article.

If you think that our rights are slipping away now. Just wait until Ralph Reed becomes the first true Christian nut job President. We will all be made to attend church on Sunday and if we are atheist like myself, we shall be burned at the cross.

[lala_rawraw]

58. you are exactly

Right on that point. Is there a way to move this story to the front page? This is not going to be read as the Patriot Act was not read. It is up to us to educate our leadership :headbang:

[wildflower]

59. I posted on this and a couple of people said that FEMA has had this power

for years...?

See this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3081274#3081399

I know it's frustrating.

How are you feeling? I remember not long ago reading one of your posts and you said you weren't well.

-wildflower

[Spacejet]

66. Yes, FEMA

has had such power for a VERY long time.

[lala_rawraw]

71. FEMA and Home Land

are one and the same, they were merged in 2002. Now combine FEMA's powers (provided over the last 40 years by our leadership) and this new bill.

[suffragette]

63. My thread dropped, too

I find this bill extremely disturbing as well.

It is being pushed through hard and fast so they can get it through before most people catch on to what is being done.
I posted on it here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x323026

It looks like some of us have posted threads on this in various forums.
Maybe those of us who have done this can post those links and we can all kick them and get them to the top of the forums at once. That way it may help to draw the attention that is needed.

If this gets attached to tsunami relief or Iraq funding (as has already been promised to Sensenbrenner - saw that in an interview), then the Senate might be voting on this as part of a package early next week.

We need a fast concerted effort to contact our Senators and urge them to oppose this.

[Spacejet]

64. Jesus christ people

we already HAVE national IDS!!!

Do you REALLY believe it makes ANY difference what so ever to any state or the federal government if your license is from TX as opposed to NY?

All it takes is 2 more seconds to select "TX" on the computer as opposed to "NY" and they get THE SAME INFORMATION.

What the hell difference does it make if they all LOOK the same? The Feds/states STILL have the SAME info on you.

If this is a concern you're about two decades too late.

[Southpaw Bookworm]

67. Pay attention

It's not the national IDs that people are up in arms over. It's the fact that this bill also gives the Department of Homeland Security the right to unilaterally override any law, and other government agency.

[Spacejet]

68. Yes I agree

that is freaky. And on face unconstitutional.

However, I was trying to respond to the people who were more concerned about the national ID.

[lala_rawraw]

73. FORGET

The one aspect focus. Look at the entire bill, that is the problem. The entire bill kills the Bill of Rights. Why do you think the only thing to come out of this on MSM is the D/L issue? Why are they not discussing the rest of this bill?

[Spacejet]

74. Gee

Do you think that might have been the point I was making?

[lala_rawraw]

77. Not sure...

Sorry, fonts don't always translate well into expression. If that is what you are saying, yes. Now how do we get this on the front page? Why are we the only ones discussing this?

[suffragette]

87. the whole bill is terrible

It obviously does make a difference for them to place ID control under the Secretary of Homeland Security, centralize that info through linking the databases, take away state control of ID issuance (through the threat to make a state's ID not useable for federal purposes if the state doesn't comply) and mandate what controls/tracking measures are included in the ID card. If it didn't make a difference they wouldn't be pushing that so hard, both in this and in other bills they already have prepared and waiting in the wings in case this doesn't go through.
The Secretary of Homeland Security then gets further power to be above the law in Section 102 which states:
Section 102(c) of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 (8 U.S.C. 1103 note) is amended to read as follows:
`(c) Waiver-
`(1) IN GENERAL- Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the Secretary of Homeland Security shall have the authority to waive, and shall waive, all laws such Secretary, in such Secretary's sole discretion, determines necessary to ensure expeditious construction of the barriers and roads under this section.
`(2) NO JUDICIAL REVIEW- Notwithstanding any other provision of law (statutory or nonstatutory), no court shall have jurisdiction--
`(A) to hear any cause or claim arising from any action undertaken, or any decision made, by the Secretary of Homeland Security pursuant to paragraph (1); or
`(B) to order compensatory, declaratory, injunctive, equitable, or any other relief for damage alleged to arise from any such action or decision.'.
Then add in the provisions against immigrants who are seeking or have sought sanctuary here from persecution such as this one in Section 103:
(IX) is the spouse or child of an alien who is inadmissible under this subparagraph, if the activity causing the alien to be found inadmissible occurred within the last 5 years... which could deport or find inadmissable a child or spouse trying to flee persecution.
The whole bill stinks and is scary as hell.
It's not long. Read it here: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:h418:

[ashmanonar]

92. ugh.

`(2) NO JUDICIAL REVIEW- Notwithstanding any other provision of law (statutory or nonstatutory), no court shall have jurisdiction--


that scares me more than can be imagined. judicial review is what has kept this country legal when other governments have gone by the wayside...

[blondeatlast]

83. There were so many threads in GD and GDP about it I think

it got lost in the shuffle; they all kept dying.

Indeed I find it very disturbing. I think it can be stopped with pressure from TRADITIONAL Republicans. I'm fortunate(?) that AZ's two R senators are both very traditional types, so I think the civil libertarian aspect will appeal to them. I have reservations about it on other levels, but I'm nothing if not pragmatic.

If you are stuck with Republicans like I am, approach them with this aspect and we'll go a lot farther.

[Erding]

84. HR418

Tell me what I can do and I'll do it. Contact reps, senators, what?

[suffragette]

86. Contact your Senators and urge them to oppose it

It already passed the House, so it is going to the Senate. It will likely be attached to another bill like Iraq funding. Contact your Senators and tell them to oppose it no matter what it is attached to.

[Erding]

88. HR 418

Done! Contacted both Stabenow and Levin.

[suffragette]

89. Good for you, Erding

And welcome to DU :hi:
Now talk to everyone you can about this and encourage them to also contact your Senators to oppose this.

[Nothing Without Hope]

85. This is horrifying - what the hell is going on?!

Nominated for HP

[Trish1168]

90. Why are they doing this?

Do they hate the American people so much?

The lack of coverage by the MSM boggles the mind. They do away with the constitution, and NO ONE brings it up?

What the hell is going on?

Am I in an alternative universe? What happened to America? The constitution used to be respected, and now they're undoing it. These people who SWORE ON A BIBLE to uphold the constitution are taking it apart (against the constitution).

Yeah...they're religious...the put their hand on the bible with their fingers crossed and then lie through their teeth.

[ashmanonar]

93. mailed both senators

i could email conyers, i'm from michigan, although idk if he'd listen. maybe. i'll try anyways.

on edit: oops, forgot, it's through teh house already. damn.

second edit: i just thought that i should post what i wrote, in case anyone wants to use it and can't think of anything else

Dear *****: It has come to my attention that the Senate will soon be voting on the HR 418 bill, which will give plenipotentiary and unconstitutional powers to the Department of Homeland Security. I urge you to vote no on this unconstitutional and potentially dangerous bill, which could have lasting effects on the civil rights of the people of the United States of America. Thank you in advance, *****

[suffragette]

97. It's sliding through, tucked into the budget supplemental

The latest news on this is that the bill looks like it will be passed and could be law within a month. It was tucked in, as promised to Sensenbrenner, to the Supplemental Budget so that it could slide through the Senate without having to be debated on the floor. Harry Reid has said they won't be able to stop it.
This is awful news.
The bill chips away further at our justice system by granting power ABOVE the law to the Homeland Security Secretary and denying immigrants habeas corpus rights. It encourages bounty hunters to hunt down immigrants. Imagine the border Minutemen with financial incentives. And there is the de facto National Id card, already authorized in the Intelligence Reform Act of late 2004, but not onerous enough for Sensenbrenner. This bill strip what little privacy safeguards were in the above act and completely federalizes state driver's licenses and id cards.
From http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2005/04/26/some_fear_law_would_crate_national_id_card/
Tim Sparapani, ACLU legislative counsel, said the Real ID Act's rules would result in a de facto national identification card because it would require states to pool driver data in a national database.
''When you condition travel on an identification card and create an internal registry of citizens and a way to track them, that is entirely contrary to most Americans' understandings of the way their country works and should work," Sparapani said.

From http://alternet.org/rights/21831/
The REAL ID Act would construct a military fence along the whole Southwestern border and require all immigrants to carry ID cards. It's a perfect example of how anti-immigrant, anti-privacy legislation is snuck through Congress in the name of "immigration reform."