oooo I just knew there had to be a car forum....van won't start

[Kali]

doesn't look too active, but I will throw this out anyway:

91 ford E350 460 auto trans...beat up ranch vehicle, muffler pretty much disconnected, running like that for well over a year. In the last couple weeks it would "skip" a little once in a while when cold. (plugs probably, right?)

Son was taking it to work the other day. Started fine, he got about a 1/4 mile down the road and it made a kind of fart/backfire noise and quit. It cranks and your can smell gas but it will not turn over and start.

Husband looked at cap/rotor - contacts looked corroded so he replaced. No change - will not turn all the way over and start. This was a vehicle that always started good if it had a working battery so I am still thinking plugs (or wires) but since I have a mental block and resultant fear of electricity I am scared to even check for spark.

Am I on the right track? I don't want to spend to uch on this thing 0 it is already over $100 to fill it, if I need to spend much I think I might try to get something else running...

Thanks, and sorry for all the words ;-)

[flvegan]

1. Voltage regulator?

I had an early 90's Mustang, and I believe that was one thing I swapped when mine wouldn't start. No idea when your last tune up was, but replacing the plugs and plug wires probably wouldn't be a bad idea.

[Kali]

3. pretty sure we did that about 4 or 5 months ago

it was that backfire noise that kind of freaks me out :wtf:

[jimmil]

6. One more thing.....

When the distributer cap was replaced the number one thing is did you put the wires back in the right place? Yes, I know that is a no brainer but I had to ask. If the wiring screwed up then it will not even begin to fire. Secondly, when the cap was replaced did you check (replacing them would have been better the points for the proper gap and good condition? You can take a point stone and clean it off and try to start it.

[jimmil]

2. In 91 did Ford have throttle body injectors?

If so it could be the injectors. In a TBI there is usually 2 injectors. You can literally see them squirting the fuel into the body if you look into it and press the gas pedal. See if they are working. Since you smell gas I would assume so. However, if you do not have gas check the fuel pump. It is located in the gas tank.

Look in the MG thread, You will find disgnosing a non fire there. Definately new plugs and wires will be needed. New points (if it has them) and condensor also. One other thing is the coil.

[Kali]

4. I think so - I took the shroud off this morning and that thing

sure doesn't look like an old carburetor to me...Pretty sure tune-up in '04 - and the wires look pretty new. We will check for spark etc this evening and coil sounds "hunchy" doesn't it? It is sitting 1/4 mile away and it is hot out plus we are just disgusted with vehicles and all that they involve right now. family of 5 (4 employed off the ranch) relying on one POS dodge pick up that all the sudden started acting weird* today too! arrrggggg talk about intense car pooling!


*"bucking" just a little like the clutch is not fully in or something, but at highway speeds. yes it is a standard tranny. any ideas there?

[jimmil]

5. Bucking just driving down the road?

Sounds VERY much like a clutch. Get going in a high gear say around 1000 RPM or so and then put you foot to the floor. If you hear the motor revving and slowing down and revving where the speed of the motor is not matching the speed you are going then the clutch disk is worn and needs to be replaced. If it bucks the spring tension is shot or you have glazed the disk plate. Either way you will need a new clutch. While you are there replace the throwout bearing. You can get a puller at NAPA or Autozone to use for free as long as you return it.

Again, look at the '78 MGB thread below this one for diagnosing a non-fire scenario. In your case, your TBI should have two injectors about half way down the throttle body. When you are trying to start it you can look down the throat and see if they are working properly by looking for the gas coming out. No gas then it's the fuel pump most likely but could be a clogged fuel filter. That is another cheap replacement insurance and you will be squeaky clean after replacing it because you will be covered in gas. Not a good time to have a Cuban cigar.

BTW, you did check all the fuses didn't you?

[Kali]

7. man when it rains it pours

maybe bucking is a little strong - hesitating might be better. Anyway I had to drive everyone all over the universe today and it seemed fine except maybe one little time. UNTIL...checked some fences along the railroad (about 10 miles of good gravel road) and then hit the pavement to go home - it kind of chugged, hesitated for a fraction of a second and then went on just fine...only the "check engine" light came on. arrggghhhh Now, I know sometimes those are irrelevant, but the combination with the hesitating and the fact that it is a dodge has me concerned.(I may not have mentioned but I HATE dodge)


Oh and on the van, "tester" over at Car Talk suggested it might me the timing chain. We didn't get to it last night and won't probably until tomorrow evening at the earliest. Meanwhile we need to travel several hundred miles before then in the Dodge...when that light came on I immediately ran down to town to the shop we use and he seemed unconcerned - said it was probably emissions stuff and it would be ok for a while, but I would like more opinions on that.

[jimmil]

8. Did you have them read the code?

Autozone will read the codes for free and tell you what it is. With all the sensors on a modern engine it is fairly straight forward (most of the time) in diagnosing a problem.

[Kali]

9. Haven't got that done yet, still working on the ford - it was probably the coil

or maybe just the wire to it - whichever, they seemed to get it going again. (they were both pretty rotten looking - the connectors were really bad)

So since we were doing "electrical stuff" we decided to go ahead and do new plugs and wires. Ugh 3 of them were pretty hard to get to - but we got them, fired it up and darn it it backfired a couple of times - freaked us out. Decided maybe we had the last two wires wrong (we can be a real Laurel and Hardy/Three Stooges work team, the husband and I) so switched them and started it again - ran pretty rough, finally got our shit together and looked in the book for the correct positions and we were right the first time. So two things, 1) yes it WILL start and run with the wires in the wrong position and 2) now what? why is it backfiring? It actually ran pretty good BEFORE the plug and wire change, a little chugging going up hill on the interstate while still kind of cold, but it went along.

[jimmil]

10. The timing is off.

You had mentioned above that you guys had messed with the distributor so you may very well have moved the timing a bit. While you are doing all that (if this isn't a CD ignition or computer controlled engine) you need to check the points. You may as well replace them now so that you won't have to in the near future. You will need a set of feeler gages and a timing light to dial it in right. To set the gap on the ignition you turn the engine over to the highest part of the lobe in the distributer and set the gap there. Turn it over and measure the gap again. Once that is done you set the timing. Make sure you put the pickup on the #1 cylinder wire and start the car. Look at the timing marks on the front of the engine. You can adjust the timing by twisting the whole distributer until the marks line up at the appropriate timing mark. If you and your SO don't understand these instructions just take is to a shop and they can do it in less than 30 minutes.

[Kali]

11. oops never updated this

It turned out after two tries we didn't have the wires right. Finally got them set and it runs fine. Don't tell anybody that we had an extra new plug left over - and I am sure it was the one that was hardest to get to, of course.

Runs fine again. Now if I could just get the muffler back on and a new radiator it would probably be reliable enough to drive in public again!