Pretty good Ramsey resource page

[johnnie]

I know we have over-saturated this case recently, but now I am reading more about it. I found this last night and it has a lot of information on it.

http://jonbenetramsey.pbwiki.com/

There are so many things in this crime, sheeezzz. The stun gun, the note, the way John Ramsey found the body when his friend had already looked in that room and saw nothing, the way Patsey reacted, the saliva mixed with JBR's blood, the flashlight, was Burke heard on the 911 call or not? The list goes on and on. No wonder why so many people are into this case.

As I said, I know we have talked about story a few times, but now I am interested in it again.

[frogmarch]

1. Thanks

johnnie. That appears to be a very good reference site for the case. Another good one is the ACandyRose website. www.acandyrose.com

From the ACR site, here's a URL to an area containing some autopsy photos and photos of the ligature device. WARNING: Some of the photos are extremely graphic. http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-thebody.htm Click to enlarge.

[johnnie]

2. Thanks frogmarch

Btw, who do you think did it?

[frogmarch]

5. BDI

Hi, johnnie. I've believed from the beginning of the JonBenet case that although he didn't intend to, JonBenet's brother Burke took her life as the result of sexual play gone wrong, and that John and Patsy covered it up. From my perspective, everything about the death itself points to Burke, yet he remains the elephant in the room that few will acknowledge.

Alex Hunter, who was Boulder DA at the time, did not clear Burke as is often erroneously reported. In the affidavit Hunter signed at the insistence of Lin Wood (the Rs' lawyer), Hunter merely confirmed that Burke was not a suspect. That is not the same thing as "cleared." Steve Thomas, a detective who once worked on the case, later wrote a book about it in which he reported that Hunter once said, "I wonder if Burke is involved in this."

In 2000 Lin Wood tried to get Hunter to sign a statement swearing under oath that any questions investigators may have had pertaining to Burke's possible involvement had been resolved.

Hunter refused.

Hunter would go only so far as to say that nothing had been developed regarding Burke that would change his status from witness to suspect.

If Hunter had suspicions about Burke, that's as far as it went. When JonBenet died, Burke was two weeks shy of his tenth birthday, and in Colorado, a child under the age of ten can't be charged with any crime. In my opinion, that may be at least part of the reason why nothing was ever developed pertaining to Burke that would turn him into a bona fide suspect.

Burke was young, but Cyril Wecht has stated that there was nothing that was done to JonBenet that someone Burke's age at the time couldn't have done, and Michael Baden said on CTV's documentary Prime Suspects: Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey? that Burke should be looked at. So ... it appears that we internet BDIers aren't entirely alone in our reasoning.

[johnnie]

6. I think there is a case against Burke myself.

There are a lot of things that seem to point to the Ramseys, but when you put Burke in the picture it makes a lot more sense. One thing that throws me is the saliva they found mixed with JBR's blood.

One thing that doesn't make sense too is that Patsey said she yelled for John after she found the note. John was on the third floor taking a shower and he heard Patsey, but Burke was on the second floor in bed and heard nothing.

[frogmarch]

7. johnnie, good points

About the DNA found in JonBenet's underwear mixed with drops of her blood:

Melissa Weber, molecular biologist at CellMark Laboratories stated after CellMark analyzed the DNA in the Ramsey case that the so-called "foreign" DNA could be the result of a false positive (stutter.) She also stated that IF the "foreign" DNA wasn't stutter and that it came from more than one person, then NO ONE could be excluded, and that includes the Ramseys.

Despite what Weber said, Lou Smit and other Ramsey supporters, including Boulder DA Mary Lacy, insist that the "foreign" DNA doesn't match samples taken from Burke or John Ramsey. In fact, this is true only if the "foreign" DNA (if it really exists) came from just one person. It has never been determined whether the "foreign" DNA was real or stutter, or, in the event that it was real, how many individuals' DNA contributed to the sample. The sample, which was taken from the crotch of the underpants found on JonBenet's body, may even be spittle from a factory worker in Thailand who sneezed on the underpants during their manufacture. The name of this "suspect" is Sum Yung Gai. ;)

From the CBI (Colorado Bureau of Investigation) report on the DNA: (The blurry word is "Excluded."



As you can see from the CBI report excerpt above, if the "foreign" DNA sample came from more than one person, none of those named in the report can be excluded as possible donors. That includes Burke Ramsey. (For that matter, neither can John Karr be excluded. Karr was cleared as a suspect because there was no evidence whatsoever that he was connected to the death of JonBenet.)

You make a good point about the incredibility of Burke sleeping through it when Patsy "found" the note and yelled for John. Also, on the unredacted tape of Patsy's 911 call, at the very end, a small voice is audible, and then John is heard to shout in a gruff voice, "We're not speaking to you!" Who was John addressing? The intruder? Hardly. He was speaking to Burke, of course. The small voice is thought by some analysts to say "What did you find?" and "What do I do?" I don't believe Burke was involved in the staging, so he was probably wondering what note his mom was telling the 911 operator she found. And then Burke wondered what he should do, how he should act, when the cops arrived. He was probably ordered back to bed and told to say he slept through everything.

BDIers are even considered pariah at most, if not all, "Ramsey did it" forums, and none of us discuss the BDI theory there. I have no idea how many of us there really are. I'm the only one I know of nowadays. Most posters on forums that are oriented toward Ramsey guilt believe Patsy killed JonBenet (there are lots of different PDI theories), though some think John did.

Every aspect of JonBenet's death points to Burke, in my opinion. Even though Lawrence Schiller treats him sympathetically in Perfect Murder, Perfect Town, the evidence is there for those who dare to look.

[johnnie]

8. Very interesting on the DNA

Now I wonder how they are saying that they were relying on the DNA to convict Karr.

There was a really good site where someone put the whole case against Burke together. I posted it here last year and just went to find it. It is gone now. That was the first time I really thought about Burke being the killer.

Something tells me that there is something more to this Karr thing that has to do with Patsey's death this year. It seems quite coincidental after almost 10 years.

Another thing I thought about last night while reading some stuff, about the tape John supposedly took off JBR's mouth. In the morgue photos, her mouth is wide open. I would think that the killer would have put the tape on her mouth before she died. Being dead for as long as she was, she would have been mostly in rigor and her mouth would have remained shut, even when the tape came off. Of course she could have been screaming when the tape went on her mouth, or it was put on her after she died. But thinking of the tape being used for what it is usually used for in these cases, it would have went on while she was quiet. Just a thought.

[frogmarch]

9. I wonder the same thing

about charges being dropped against Karr because there was no match on the DNA. The reason may be that the DA knew that there was not one piece of other evidence, either, tying Karr to the case.

On TV the talking heads, even some who were involved in the case in the early years of the investigation, insist that DA Lacy should have compared the palm print found on the basement door to Karr's palm print, and should also have investigated to see if Karr could have made the Hi-Tec hiking shoe print found near the body. The thing is, the palm print found on the basement door was eventually indentified as belonging to Melinda Ramsey, John's grown daughter by his first wife. Not even John and Patsy disputed that. Melinda was not in Boulder when JonBenet died, so that's probably why they accepted it. However, it came out in the 2000 police interviews of the Ramseys that it had been revealed in Grand Jury testimony that Burke Ramsey owned Hi-Tec hiking shoes, and this time it was a different story. Patsy claimed she could not remember Burke owning any, and Lin Wood had a hissy and refused to accept it. He still refuses to, even though it's an indisputable fact. Lin Wood nothwithstanding, it drives me nuts to hear so-called "experts" on the case go on TV and blather on about the "mystery" palm print and shoe (sometimes called "boot") print. Melinda made the palm print, and it's certainly possible, likely even, that Burke made the shoe print.

At autopsy, the effects of rigor had lessened, and that may be why the mouth was open. As for the tape, JonBenet's lip prints were found on the sticky side, and the prints show that her lips weren't moving. A few fibers matching Patsy's clothing fibers were also found on the sticky side of the tape. Because the strip of tape was too small to have prevented JonBenet from biting it off and screaming, investigators believe the tape was placed on her mouth after death as part of the staging. (If you want to experiment, place a strip of duct tape the length of your lips over your mouth, and then see how long it takes you to bite it off, or merely open your mouth and dislodge it.)

Are you talking about Troy Cohan's BDI website? I don't agree with every aspect of his BDI theory, but I think that generally speaking he's pretty much got it. The Rs' lawyer Lin Wood has tried to convince Cohan to take the site down - I think Wood even threatened him - but it's still up, although according to Cohan, because of technical problems, it's not always accessible.

[livetohike]

3. Hi Johnnie

:hi: Have you read Perfect Murder, Perfect Town yet?? If not, it's a good one to pick up.

[johnnie]

4. I haven't read it yet

I'm putting it on my list though, thanks. There is so much information about the whole case. It's all just bizarre.
:hi: