Have you noticed that Joe Lieberman threads

[elshiva]

often degenerate into anti-Israel and/or vaguely anti-Semitic diatribes?
I don't like Lieberman at all, but I don't like this trend.

[jdots]

1. I don't know if it a real trend

maybe alot of us expect more from Joe,I don't know why,but i think he gets used alot and like Clinton trys too hard to please.In doing so he makes some huge blunders.Right now his voting record is right of the moved to the right center.

[Behind the Aegis]

2. I have noticed it.

As a matter of fact, on another post in this forum (the other real serious thread about Jews and the Democrat Party), I actually lifted a quote from a Lieberman thread! I also do not like Lieberman. I don't trust him. The sad thing is that many Jews don't seem to trust him either, at least the ones I know that aren't right-wing. I just wish he'd switch to rethug and get it over with!

[elshiva]

3. Lieberman, please come out as a Repuke and

get it over with! I am disappointed for him because I did vote for him for VP in 2000. I like his backstory about his immigrant mom, but that's about all I like about him now.

[Lithos]

4. I think he has forgotten his past

I feel he has become the consumate politician chasing after power. I think he has forgotten where he came from (his civil rights days) and who he was when he voted for the common man. He still is not right of center, but he is definitely not helping Dems find a consistent voice.

L-

[Colorado Blue]

9. On the other hand I saw him on CNN Sunday and he came

out strongly against Bush's Social Security plan. He spoke very clearly about the need to add money to the system, not remove it - ie, against private accounts.

I think his constituency is strongly reliant upon the banking industry and no doubt that influences his positions, ie moving more to the right. He's hardly alone in that; we DU'ers need to be aware that one can take a principled liberal stand on social issues and still be cognizant of other economic philosophies. Indeed, I don't think we HAVE a clear economic - or global - philosophy right now. That's a major problem for the Left. It's one perhaps we could discuss in this forum - the development of a clear philosophy on economic and international issues.

But as to the original question, I think there's some anti-Jewish feeling being expressed. It's a shame.

[Lithos]

16. I missed that

I had thought I had read where he was for Bush's plan to privatize SS. f so, then very good for him.

Back to your original question. Yes, there are those who view him negatively as a result of his religion. It is an easy answer for some who wish to explain simplisticly his support of Israel.


L-

[drdon326]

6. Well.....lets get specific here.....

Lieberman voted to support the initial resolution of the war .......as did many (? most ) of the dems in congress...including Hilary.

He has been a vocal supporter of the continuing the war in iraq...no question.

Clearly he is from the more conservative wing of the democratic party.... but my point is i'm wondering if he isnt being made a scapegoat for all the frustration over current events.

(and no , i didnt like that kiss )

Lieberman is from the DLC ....as was Bill Clinton....and at one time Al Gore was to.

And now Hilary is "moving" to the center .... but you dont read many negative threads about her.


If someone wants to correct me feel free.

[drdon326]

8. OMT.....

At the time of the initial vote, 29 DEMOCRATIC senators voted for the resolution and 21 Democratic senators voted against it.

If someone can find the list of what each dem senators vote was, i would appreciate it. I couldnt find it.

[drdon326]

10. Behind the Aegis

what exactly dont you like about Lieberman ??



note-i'm neither a fan or non-fan as i really dont follow all his voting record.

[Behind the Aegis]

11. What I don't like

I think others have explained some of it. I feel he panders to the Shrub agenda too much, as are a few others (Democrats). He still has a strong stance on civil rights, for the most part. And, if I am completely honest, there is just "something" about him I don't like. I can't put my finger on it. The thing was, I didn't even like him as a VP candidate, but I was excited about a Jew being a VP, you know Gore would have been safe!

BTW, there have been threads against Hillary, especially of late. I have even seen one or two against Bill, himself! **gasp** :)

[drdon326]

12. Well.....

other than his OVERT support of the war , which some dems in the senate and house agree with , I really dont know that much about him.

I have heard he is strong on civil rights.

If ANYONE can add more info on that evil Joe Lieberman and why we should verbally pulverize him, please educate me.

[Behind the Aegis]

13. Not the best source

But it is a start...Time to go Joe. Like I said, it is not the best site, but it does point out some stuff that are problematic. I think there are other congress people that need to get the 'heave-ho' as well. The problem is that Democrats are catering to Rethugs instead of us!

It is my understand that he is quite progressive in the area of civil rights. Google him and see what comes up.

I think the biggest issue is how cozy he is with the Resident and other conservatives. It makes people, me included, very suspicious.

BTW...take a look in the LBN and GD forums, there are some threads that need your attention! :evilgrin:

[drdon326]

14. Thanks for the link.

that was interesting.

[IndianaGreen]

5. The only good thing about Lieberman is...

Hadassah Lieberman. She is everything her husband is not.

I hope Lieberman is defeated in the primary, or joins Zell Miller in the Jefferson Davis Fan Club.

[elshiva]

17. Haddassah Lieberman rules!

[Meshuga]

7. I'm not a fan of Joe BUT

I think it is unfair to compare him to a nut like Zell Miller like people do sometimes. He says the worng things, he supported the war and he falls in the moral crap that the right wind preach. But doesn't he have one of the best environmental record in the senate?

Anyway, I don't agree with him politically but he doesn't seem to be a nut and I don't think he would turn to the other side.

[Colorado Blue]

15. I think he takes unfair heat on DU because he, like Hillary

for example, is somewhat "right wing" according to some of the Far Left.

Most people were for the war before the war, so I'm not sure one can really criticize him too much for that. After all, the info we were given was really scary and no less a personage than Colin Powell was doing the bomb material thing at the UN, plus the climate was still very scared and upset by 9/11. Hindsight is 20/20.

Of course SOME of us were so brilliant we knew it would be a catastrophe - if for no other reason than the chaos factor in the M.E.:)

[Colorado Blue]

18. New Joe Lieberman thread - oy -

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3287761#3294249

[Behind the Aegis]

19. Just a question

This is not just for my friend, CB. Do you think sometimes we, Jews or those with strong ties to the Jewish community, sometimes go easier on other Jews and Israel because they are Jews/Israel? I have found that, even if I disagree with a policy of Israel or a Jewish politician, I will take their side, sometimes biting my tongue. I think I do this because I see so much anti-Semitism as the basis of the attacks, that I feel it my duty to defend. Do others find themselves at this crossroad? Don't get me wrong, sometimes, I do agree with something and defend because I feel it is the right thing.

Also, an I the only one that has noticed that people will "tip-toe" around criticizing someone of another ethnic background? I know lots of people here can't stand Condasleazie or Colon POW-el, but NO ONE would ever say, "well, they are just like that because of the powerful Black lobby (if one supposedly existed)." But, if the person is a Jew, they almost salivate at throwing that bit of information in! Is it because one deals with ethnicity and the other religion, or is there something else there?

What thinks you guys?

[Colorado Blue]

20. Well, I agree that Jews seem to be vulnerable to attack.

The thread we're discussing is pretty raw in spots.

I'm boning up on M.E. history just to make sure I know what I'm talking about, so I don't do as you suggested we might and go easy on Israel or Jews. It would be natural to do so, as you suggest. And frankly I get confused, there's so much anti-Israel propaganda about that I'm beginning to think - whoa - was I asleep all these decades? Or WHAT?

The article I read tonight was about the Lebanon civil war and it reminded me how we really aren't evil demons. In fact, people now bending over to kiss the toes of the PLO might never have read about their role in Lebanon, or how and why they got evicted from Jordan, or how they were accused of genocide in Lebanon. People screaming that Sharon is a mass murderer probably forgot that the Lebanese Christians killed the people in the camps - not Sharon.

Of course that is not preventing our fellow DU'ers from declaring that tonight's car bomb isn't custom made to allow the Israelis to destablish Lebanon, for their own dark purposes of course.

I, personally, am getting discouraged with DU.

Maybe I am a NEOCON. Some people think that is synonymous with Jew so what the hell:)

[Behind the Aegis]

22. So, I am not the only one!

Since you are boning up on history, here is a great site I found (in case you hadn't seen it): Jewish Virtual Library.

I guess I was just feeling pretty 'raw' myself. I get tired of the same old crap. Nothing seems to satisfy the 'haters' at all. Yet, they are supposed to be progressives. :eyes: It is very frustrating and hurtful. As I have said in multiple posts, I don't care if people disagree with the policies of Israel, but routinely, people cross that line.

I, too, have become a little discouraged here, but I do find some refuge in other areas and forums. I have also met some really neat people! ;)

I was wondering if others felt something similar. I guess so. :)

[Colorado Blue]

23. I'm glad I'M not alone too. Whoa. BTW I ordered the books

Coastie recommends, House of Bush, House of Saud, and the other one about Anglo-Arab oil - forgot the title.

BTW I think the attitudes go way beyond criticism of Israeli policies. The Lieberman thread is actually veering in the direction, that anyone who supports Israel at all, is a neocon.

I just replied to one of these folks, probably is a waste of time.

What the heck. It's worth a try I suppose.

[Darranar]

21. Sometimes I do think so. But it would be a generalization to express it...

in exactly those terms.

As those who have read my posts in I/P is probably aware, I am somewhat outside the Jewish mainstream on the issue, and the number of epithets that end up hurled against those having such views is astonishing.

There seems to be a belief among many that a kind of group loyalty - including strong support for the state of Israel (typically amounting to strong support for Israeli policy, though it does not have to be that way, as Tikkun proves) - is an important part of being Jewish. As such, harsh Jewish critics of Israeli policy are often attacked viciously.

And certainly, I have defended and felt like defending people whose views I disagree with because they are Jewish and because they were being unfairly smeared.

But this is not at all something exclusive to Jews. It is certainly visible among most religions as well, and among most political groupings.

As for the "Jewish lobby" nonsense.... Well, I do not think the view is as prevalent as you seem to imply, but it certainly is present. I do not think it is always anti-Semitism, merely that it can be, and that some of the myths surrounding it and leading to it are certainly anti-semitic in root.

But there is another factor at work here, I think. It is a kind of nationalism, the belief that the great and benevolent United States of America would never have launched an act of blatant aggression against another country unless some malicious force was working at it from within. This malicious force is assumed by many to be Israel, and since Israel, according to the myth, has to be controlling the United States, the culprits are AIPAC and its associates, as well as the Jewish neoconservative members of the Bush Administration. To add to the viability of their case, and to explain the bipartisan nature of the support for Israeli policy, the assumption is made that the Jewish community is a fanatic and monolithic supporter of Israeli policy. This view is, unfortunately, helped by those members of the Jewish community who not only are in fact fanatic and monolithic supporters of Israeli policy, but are only too happy to make the exact same claim about the Jewish community in order to imply that those disagreeing are anti-semitic and to say that politicians disagreeing are "unelectable."

[Colorado Blue]

24. I liked your conclusion about nationalism, and the apparent

need for a "bogeyman" to explain our evil deeds.

I wish people were a little less idealistic sometimes, and would really take a look at how things get done - I speak in this case of the acquisition of oil. Oil lies behind many - most - of our woes in the M.E. and of course beyond and environmentally it's a disaster.

Nevertheless, very few of "Jewish plot" freaks seem willing to consider the whale in the soup when discussing Iraq - and that is - duh - OIL. They'd actually prefer to think that evil Israel got us into that for their own Dark Purposes.

This disturbs me no end - for several reasons. Of course the obvious is antisemitism. This is really traditional scapegoating.

But beyond that, it indicates a problem with the Left, an inability to think internationally, to think in nuts and bolts terms, and come up with a philosophy that both deals with the business of getting the stuff we need to run our economy, and the ideals of our social platform.

This is limiting us philosophically and also in terms of collecting votes. Rightwingers think we're naive and we lose votes from people who might like to support us but think we're hopelessly dumb and unaware of security issues and global economic issues.

I don't know if it's POSSIBLE to be a realist and an idealist. I'm sure trying! One has to look at life and see EVERYTHING and still love it, not just the pretty stuff! I study Buddhist art, especially from Tibet, and they seem to have been able to incorporate the most horrible things, the wrathful Buddhas, into their vision of wisdom and compassion. It's really a guide for me.