I wish to make a request of everyone here: let's talk about stem cells.

[WilliamPitt]

I'm somewhat versed on this topic, but only in a surface-data/win-political-arguments sense. That isn't good enough anymore. Not since Friday.

For example, I've convinced many people of the need for this science by explaining how stem cell therapy can pretty much solve overnight the problem of finding matching donors for someone with bone marrow cancer. Short version: if I had this cancer, it'd be my marrow + stem cells + scientific wizardry beyond my ken = new marrow that matches perfectly, because it's mine.

I learned about this aspect of the therapy from a woman I dated, whose father died of bone marrow cancer because they couldn't find a match (he was adopted and there were no remaining family records)...and he died the same month Bush vetoed the bill. Yeah.

But that's still surface/debate knowledge that may be off-base, and I'd like to know more if there's somewhere to learn.

I know stem cell therapy would greatly benefit the treatment of (and perhaps eventually eradicate?) diabetes, but don't know the specifics. Where can I find out more?

And finally, coming to the reason for this post, I think I heard something about stem cell treatments perhaps being applicable in the treatment (and maybe cure?) of Multiple Sclerosis. Am I even in the neighborhood with this?

I feel obligated to make clear that my motivation behind these queries is largely selfish in nature. This past Friday, someone very very very dear to me was diagnosed with MS...in the hallway of an emergency room center and one curtain away from a screaming man who'd been shot three times...and on my birthday to boot (and who cares, right? not me). Not a good day, and not many good days since, but the shock is receding and the task at hand...well...it is what it is, and there it is.

But if there is some kind of hope that stem cell therapy can assist MS patients, that's going to be the standard under which my armies march, for whatever that's worth and for however long it takes.

If there's anything to it, specifically (and indeed selfishly) regarding MS treatments, I want all the way in on the fight to beat back these Leviticus-quoting hypocritical cretins who block this research with talk about "snowflake babies" and fetuses and Jesus, but then get caught doing blow with prostitutes while attending a poker party at Duke Cunningham's Watergate condo that's been paid for off the books by his friends in the "Defense" industry.

Fuck those people. They need to be crushed.

Thanks for any information you can provide...and I apologize for the self-centered fact that I'm in this for me and a friend, at bottom, and that I'm late to the game. If there's hope in this, and if I can help, count me in. All the way. I want to write about everything this science can help ameliorate, from the marrow to diabetes to MS to whatever myriad other diseases or afflictions people are suffering right this moment because James Dobson has a thing for snowflakes and writes big checks to GOP candidates, and nothing besides that matters even half a damn to any of them.

They need to be crushed. Period. End of file.

Thanks again.

:hug:

[blondie58]

1. well, how nice that we have such a warrior on our side

and I want to start off by saying how lucky your friend is to have you in their corner- and happy belated birthday. Keep in mind that it is not a death sentence, but rather a change in your life. I was diagnosed July 9, 1999- a day that I will forever remember. This workshop that I attended over the weekend reiterated what I had always known- that you go through the stages that Elizabeth Kubler-Ross writes about in her famous On Death and Dying- that you go through the five stages of grief- being denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. Personally, I was astounded, two months prior, I had been on a week long rafting trip down the Grand Canyon, which included some pretty strenuous hikes, as EVERYTHING is up in the GC! No problem for me, as I was in good shape.
My daughters and I always do the MS Walk every year, which does a lot of research into stem cell therapy. You might want to check this page out from their web site-
http://www.nationalmssociety.org/site/PageServer?pagename=HOM_RES_stemcell, as it lists some of the reports on their meeting on this very subject way back in January. And in my personal opinion, if we could 'unlock' the mystery of ms, it will open the door to other autoimmune diseases and many other people who suffer from diseases will benefit.

Again, please know that it is not a death sentence, just a bump in the road of life, albeit a rather large one. Personally, being a single mom, I can't afford NOT to work, and my job is rather physical, being a letter carrier for the post office. However, I am grateful that I have such a good job and that I can do it most days.

I was surprised upon googling it, how many studies are going on. Here are some more, that you might find interesting- http://www.msrc.co.uk/index.cfm?fuseaction=show&pageid=1330
http://www.msakc.org/Articles/StemCellResearch.htm
http://www.curesforcalifornia.com/page.php?id=102
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/17188.php
http://stemcell.taragana.net/category/multiple-sclerosis/

OKay, that is all that I'm going to put up there, as you will undoubtably come up with more that I possibly ever could, being a professional!

They also are doing research into regrowing myelin, which is the reason that we have ms- our myelin surrounding the nerve fibers gets holes in it, which disrupts transmission. http://www.myelin.org/

When I was first diagnosed, I knew nothing about it, not having anyone in my family or circle of friends with it. My idea of MS was a person in a wheelchair with drool coming down their chin. So, as I equate knowledge with power, I set out to learn as much as I could, sometimes even knowing more than my neurologists, until I fired them and now I see an MS specialist.

It is incredible how people can really think that those zygotes are babies. They would rather allow the labs to throw away eggs that won't be used than to let them be used for research. Perhaps we need to start charging couples who let too many eggs be made and thus wasted to be charged with murder.
:sarcasm:

[blondie58]

2. here is one last site for you, Will

this is with Mass General- Brain Talk, a bulletin board for almost any subject available. For anyone reading this with another problem, they may have your subject, also.

http://brain.hastypastry.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=195

I found it invaluable upon my dx, both as a discussion/support board and the various members who come up with astonishing research and information. It is good to be able to voice your fears and questions to people who genuinely understand what you're dealing with. My children didn't really have the empathy for me and they got tired of me talking about it constantly at first.
There is a poster there by the title of XO++, who is especially helpful with research and information on new treatments.

I haven't been on it in a while, as I actually forget somedays that I have this fricking disease, but it really helped me at the beginning with questions and research.
It is possible that they have some knowledge or have discussed stem cells before, also. Go check it out!

Edited to add this great website that I just stumbled upon-
http://stemcells.nih.gov/info/health.asp

[Lurking Dem]

3. Don't ask for much, do ya? LOL

There are several avenues here and it can get very confusing. (Some basics on stem cells including policy at http://stemcells.nih.gov/ )

Regarding diabetes, things are complicated because type 1 is not a single gene disease. Which is not to say that jockeying a single gene couldn't "cure" it.

One thing they are doing in Israel with these cell lines (Technion has a huge and vibrant stem cell program) is creating lines from diseased genes. They can actually watch the process as the cells develop, say, the immune process, what actually happens.

This provides multiple paths for understanding the causes of disease and treatments.

The Harvard Stem Cell Institute is, I believe, looking at various ways to grow beta cells (insulin producing cells) from stem cells.

Israel leads the way in research. They were doing "pioneer studies" of bone marrow stem cells back in the '60's.

The Consortium Bereshit for Cell Therapy was organized to (among other things) try and create stem cells that can be FDA approved.

There has been some success in mice by using stem cells to create insulin producing cells in the body. The trick is not having them attacked as the original cells were by the body's own immune system

They may have found an answer to that in the Brazil study but the research was done in a dangerous manner and I am not sure if it can be replicated. But they were able to reverse the autoimmune nature of the disease in patients and inject beta cells into them without the need for immunosuppression. This type of procedure would only work in the fairly newly diagnosed who still have some residual beta cell function. http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/health/20070410-1300-diabetesexperiment.html

A few people have had islet cell transplants but that is not a cure. They have to take drugs to suppress the immune system even if their own tissue was used to create beta cells. These drugs are largely diabetogenic, meaning they kill off beta cells. So the cells eventually have to be replaced. Being able to create enough beta cells is a real problem.

The stem cell research focusing on how to genetically alter them to not be susceptible to autoimmune attack is the real key here.

[kdmorris]

4. One of the issues I've run up against in autoimmune diseases

is that stem cells can be used to regrow the tissue that was attacked and destroyed, but how does one stop the antibodies from destroying it again?

For example, I have diabetes and autoimmune hypothyroidism. If I used stem cells to regrow my thyroid, my body would just destroy it again. The actual antibodies would somehow need to be destroyed or quelled, as well. My Diabetes is mainly due to Insulin Resistance and burning my pancreas out. Stem cells could be used to regrow my pancreatic beta cells and then, I could eat low carb for the rest of my life and probably stop a recurrence.

The unfortunate part of MS is that it is an autoimmune disease. You can probably use stem cells to repair the myelin, but that wouldn't stop the recurrence of the antibodies destroying the new myelin. That isn't to say it can't be done. I don't wish to make you discouraged. I'm just saying that there needs to be more research done into the causes and "cures" for autoimmune diseases.

[Lurking Dem]

5. gene jockeying

They are attempting to alter cells so they are not recognized by the autoimmune response.

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/sex/stem-cells/dn3283.html

http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/001818.html

From NIH:

Theoretically, embryonic stem cells or adult stem cells could be genetically modified before or during differentiation into pancreatic beta islet cells to be used for transplantation. The resulting immune-modulating islet cells might diminish the occurrence of ongoing autoimmunity, increase the likelihood of long-term function of the transplanted cells, and eliminate the need for immunosuppressive therapy following transplantation.

[kdmorris]

6. THAT is incredibly cool!!

I'm at work right now and will look at the links later, but that looks utterly fascinating! Granted, hypothyroidism isn't life threatening, but it's a huge pain in the ass to constantly monitor and fix and manipulate my thyroid medication to approximate what it used to be like.

And it's never the same. I'm tired ALL the time, even though my thyroid tests are good.

[Lurking Dem]

7. It IS cool.

I suffer from a variety of autoimmune disorders. My thyroid has suffered too but I only have to take a small dose of synthroid.

Type 1 diabetes, systemic lupus, and Sjogren's have taken enough of a toll on me that I seriously doubt I will see anything in my (abbreviated) lifetime that will help me.

But the science is exciting and promising and while the Bush administration hampers research all they can, scientists around the world are sharing information and databases and actually trying to accomplish "miracles".

[WilliamPitt]

9. Am I correct that

islet cells require you to take anti-rejection drugs (I don't know the proper term) to keep your body from rejecting them (i.e. like a transplanted organ that doesn't match the reciever, I think, yes?).

I've read twelve billion words on MS and MS-related topics, and seem to remember reading something like that. Am I off the mark?

Thanks again.

[kdmorris]

10. Islet cells are the cells in the pancreas responsible for making insulin

In the case of Type 1 Diabetes, these cells are destroyed by your own body, seen as an intruder for some reason.

In my case, a case of Type 2 Diabetes, I burned a lot of mine out due to insulin resistance. This caused my poor islet cells to work overtime and eventually decide that they'd had enough and retire.

So, what Lurking Dem was referring to is changing islet cells so that they would not be destroyed again by the antibodies that did it the first time, which would nullify the effect that I was discussing in my post to you. That would, in effect, be a cure for Type 1 Diabetes, which would save the lives of millions of children (and adults, for that matter).

Haven't gotten a chance to look at the links yet, but that is amazing technology that would allow people like me (and your friend with MS) to be able to use stem cells to create or repair organs in our bodies that would not be destroyed again (in your friend's case, the myelin sheath on her nerve bundles, in my case, my thyroid). It's just fascinating to me that research in other parts of the world has come so far and gives me hope for those of us with autoimmune diseases.

[WilliamPitt]

8. THANK YOU SO MUCH EVERYONE!!!

I cannot adequately express my gratitude for all this, and for you folks especially. It means so much because this is personal...but I've been reading a lot of posts in here, and "personal" is pretty much the name of the game. Pain will do that...as will strength.

And it also very clear that, as much as possible via online communication, you all take very good care of each other down here, and are so quick to provide help or comfort. Especially mopinko :hug: , who always seems to say the right thing at the right moment.

I'm not used to that on DU. I'm from GD, and...yeah, not so much with the milk of human kindness and stuff. Can you smell the sulphur on my shirt? ;)

Thank you so much again. I gots me some homework to do. And I'm so glad I found this room.

:hug:

[Lurking Dem]

11. Glad we could help!

And, hey, I flame on IP AND GD so maybe I just get it all out of my system! NAH! :evilgrin:

Illness tends to unite people in a way that politics can't.

And if I may make a suggestion, friends, family, and caregivers of people with chronic, debilitating illnesses go through things differently than the people who suffer from them. A support group of folks who can understand what YOU are going through might not be a bad idea.

[mopinko]

12. hugs right back, friend.

the prognosis today, stem cells or no, is so much brighter than it was for my sister. in all these diseases, modern treatments may not cure you, or make you feel great all the time, but they do slow down the deterioration that occurs over time.

you have probably read this, but i think that ms is one of the cruelest diseases. you can go for so long without a peep out of it, and just when you think you might be able to deal with it, BLAM. so f'ing cruel.
:hug: to you both. she is lucky to have you. she will need you.