Vitamin D

[Duer 157099]

I know this has been discussed in various threads, but I would encourage everyone to have their levels tested and to do some research on your own (pubmed) to see all of the various conditions that are affected by vitamin D deficiency, and the near epidemic numbers of people world-wide who are deficient. I don't know if this is a recent phenomenon, related to environmental/dietary/planetary(heh) conditions, or whether it is just now being examined more closely. I'm guessing that The Internet is also involved, that more people are spending more time indoors. Plus, all the (valid) concerns about UV exposure wrt skin cancer, etc.

But in any case, I'm embarking on my own experiment, using myself as the test subject (n=1). I'm currently taking an 8-course high-dose regimen of vitamin D (D3, 50,000IU/wk) and making no other changes to diet/exercise, want to see if there is a direct effect on my 1) fasting blood sugar 2) cholesterol and 3) blood pressure. Probably also a good idea to check thyroid levels.

My levels of Vit D have been consistently low, below 30ng/ml. I think the first time I had it checked a couple years ago, it was around 17--and I recall that it was MY request to have it checked, my doctor didn't apparently even think about it (although NOW I notice that everytime I have blood drawn, Vitamin D levels are ALWAYS tested). I've been trying to be consistent about taking my vit D supplement, but apparently I'm not doing well enough, because last test the levels were still only 27. I want to get them over 50 and see if there is any corresponding effect on those other measurements.

I've looked through the literature and am convinced that D3 (not D2) is the more appropriate form, and that while possible, it's difficult to take too much. One study I read showed that (in a study of eldery folks) a single dose of 300,000IU D3 orally caused an increase in blood levels of 25(OH)D (the metabolite of vitamin D) to good levels (>30ng/ml) within 3 days and those levels were sustained well beyond 30 days (!). Good news for those of us who "forget" to take their vitamins some days...

It is astonishing how many papers are listed in pubmed that talk about effects of vitamin D deficiency/supplementation on SO MANY common conditions!

So, if anyone here has comments about their own experience, please post.

[marybourg]

1. My test showed my D level "normal" while on 800 IU/day. Accidentally I

started taking 4000 IU/day (when my private label brand changed labels and I didn't notice) and my long term mouth sores suddenly cleared up! When I realized how much I was taking (after about 6 weeks on 4000 IU), I backed down to 2000 IU/day and my mouth sores are about 95% better. I told this to a friend who complained about mouth sores and she had the same result!

[Duer 157099]

2. That's great! Good mistake

So, do you mean that while taking 4000 the sores cleared up completely, but when taking half that dose, some of the sores returned? If so, have you returned to 4000IU? That's, imho, not an excessive dose, not even close. I buy 2000IU tablets and take at least 1 a day but more often 2-3 (and still my levels linger less than 30ng/ml, which is why I'm ramping things up into high gear.

One thing to remember is to supplement calcium at the same time.

Vitamin D deficiency has been shown to be involved in many skin conditions, so it's not surprising that increased levels would help with skin issues. That's another indicator that I'm keeping an eye on. Apparently it aids in the immune response of skin. I'd like to see if anybody has done a study about vitamin D and warts. In fact, think I'll pop over to pubmed and search.

What would be really helpful would be a home test kit that allows home assaying of vitamin D levels. I wonder how difficult that would be?

[marybourg]

5. Yes, that's what I mean. As to aiding in immune response -- my

immune response already is excessive; that's what the sores were. The D apparently modulates (tamps down?) the immune response, at least in me As to the home test kit: note that my labs already were at the top of the "normal" range (60) before I started taking 4000 IU. So how helpful is the test? I wish I could take calcium; but I can't. I do drink milk and eat a alot of cheese, but I can't tolerate the calcium pills.

[Duer 157099]

13. You might find this paper interesting

It's been shown that these antimicrobial peptides can be regulated by vitamin D.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1479858/?tool=pubmed

The oral cavity is a unique environment in which antimicrobial peptides play a key role in maintaining health and may have future therapeutic applications. Present evidence suggests that α-defensins, β-defensins, LL-37, histatin, and other antimicrobial peptides and proteins have distinct but overlapping roles in maintaining oral health and preventing bacterial, fungal, and viral adherence and infection. The expression of the inducible hBD-2 in normal oral epithelium, in contrast to other epithelia, and the apparent differential signaling in response to commensal and pathogenic organisms, provides new insights into innate immunity in this body site. Commensal bacteria are excellent inducers of hBD-2 in oral epithelial cells, suggesting that the commensal bacterial community acts in a manner to benefit the overall innate immune readiness of oral epithelia. This may have major significance for understanding host defense in the complex oral environment.

[Duer 157099]

3. Jeez that was quick

J Dermatol. 2005 Jun;32(6):420-3.
Topical vitamin D3 is effective in treating senile warts possibly by inducing apoptosis.

Mitsuhashi Y, Kawaguchi M, Hozumi Y, Kondo S.

Department of Dermatology, Yamagata University School of Medicine, Yamagata, Japan.

Vitamin D3 ointments containing active forms of vitamin D3 are widely used to treat inflammatory keratotic dermatoses such as psoriasis. Senile wart or seborrheic keratosis is a benign tumor which occurs mainly in the elderly. It has traditionally been treated with surgical procedures, freezing with liquid nitrogen, or laser therapy. We treated senile warts with topical vitamin D3 ointments (tacalcitol, calcipotriol or maxacalcitol). Out of 116 cases treated for 3 to 12 months, 35 (30.2%) showed complete disappearance or more than an 80% decrease in the volume of the tumor, 54 cases (46.6%) showed a decrease in the volume between 40 and 80%, and no remarkable changes or decreases of less than 40% were seen in 27 cases (23.3%). The tumors faded without any inflammatory changes such as erythema or swelling. An organ culture experiment using senile wart as a material with several concentrations of tacalcitol revealed that tacalcitol induced apoptosis in the tissue. On the other hand, only sporadic apoptotic cells were seen in the controls (p<0.001). Vitamin D3 may affect senile warts by inducing apoptosis. Clearance of senile warts, especially on exposed areas without pain, may improve the quality of life (QOL) of the elderly.

Now I need to find out what "senile warts" are, lol. I have some "skin tags" that annoy the hell out of me, and I wonder if this would work on them, too...?

Interesting

[elleng]

4. Thanks for the reminder.

Been skipping daily dose (of 1000 iu) cause of size of pill; had much smaller one, last time. Whats diff betw. D3 and D2? These are D3.

[Duer 157099]

7. Here's an excerpt from a paper

This describes it nicely:

Ergocalciferol (vitamin D2) is the most commonly prescribed form of vitamin D used to treat
vitamin D insufficiency in the United States, and it is the only vitamin D that is widely available
in the 50,000-IU dose strength. Cholecalciferol (vitamin D3) is not widely available in strengths
higher than 2,000 IU. Some investigators have suggested that cholecalciferol may be more
bioavailable than ergocalciferol (33). When given equal molar quantities (approximately 4,000
IU) of vitamin D2 or D3 for 14 days, the subjects who consumed vitamin D3 demonstrated a
1.7-times greater efficacy in raising plasma 25-OHD levels (34). Armas et al (35) demonstrated
similar absorption of vitamin D2 and D3 in healthy male subjects but noted higher and sustained
levels of circulating 25-OHD in the vitamin D3-receiving group. The differences between
ergocalciferol and cholecalciferol may relate to variations in binding to vitamin D-binding
protein; however, this hypothesis still remains to be established (33,36). In contrast, Holick et
al (37) recently demonstrated that vitamin D2 and vitamin D3 were equally efficacious in raising
25-OHD concentrations when given as a daily 1,000-IU dose. This outcome suggests that there
may be a difference in vitamin D preparations when given in pharmacologic versus physiologic
doses in the resultant increase in 25-OHD levels.

from:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2683376/pdf/nihms-110700.pdf

EVALUATION OF VITAMIN D REPLETION REGIMENS TO CORRECT VITAMIN D STATUS IN ADULTS

[elleng]

8. Thanks; I understand it perfectly! (NOT!)

[Duer 157099]

9. It's explaining the difference between D2 and D3

And I'm glad I read it because it means that the 50,000IU that I'm taking is D2, not D3.

But the 2000IU tabs that I buy (non-Rx) are D3.

D3 *seems* to be the better form to take, in terms of blood levels achieved, etc. Although, apparently, if you take enough D2, it works fine.

I'll bet you can understand it if you just skip over the stuff you don't understand. Try it again.

[Duer 157099]

6. Here's a link to a really good review paper

It's a pdf file. I've been reading the scientific literature for a couple of days now and this review very nicely sums up what I've been reading (heh, wish I had found it earlier! but even so, at least I know it's based on solid data)

http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/.fulltext/13/1/6.pdf

[tiptoe]

10. Understanding the Safety of D3 vs D2, MD recommendations, and "How Much Vitamin D Should I Take?"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=222&topic_id=49922&mesg_id=74876

 

[Duer 157099]

11. Holy cow I had no idea it was so controversial

I don't get it. I mean, I understand that the whole subject of supplements is tainted by hyperbole on both sides, but sheesh, you don't see that kind of vitriol at scientific conferences where these things are presented and discussed. It's data and it can be discussed without all the attacks that I saw over on that thread.

Personally I'm becoming convinced about the wide ranging effects of vitamin D on the body and disease, and those studies that show zero correlation between vitamin D and some disease are, imho, meaningless in the sense that they are less important than those studies that *do* show correlations. I've been reading plenty of studies lately, and when I see in the abstract that they fail to show a correlation, I just go on to the next one and when I find one that *does* show a connection, I read it carefully. It's the same principle as trying to prove a negative, it's meaningless.

Not to mention the issue of how complex the whole vitamin D metabolic system is and how many polymorphisms exist in each of the players in the pathway, etc. It's complicated. It's complex. It will take years of more research to really get an idea of what is going on, and what the risk factors are, and when supplementation will work and when it won't. You could have great circulating levels of vitamin D, but if you have a mutation in the vitamin D receptor, that's going to affect things. If you have a mutation in one of the enzymes in the pathway, that's going to have an impact. All of these things are currently being vigorously studied.

I find it fascinating.

[tiptoe]

14. I share the same sensibility: fascinating stuff!! nt

[hedgehog]

12. There are so many claims out there about Vitamin D that the knee jerk reaction is

that this must be quackery. Then you dig deeper to find out that Vitamin D is involved with some very basic aspects of metabolism and the immune system, and it all makes sense. I tripped over Vitamin D some years back when researching Vitamin D and Seasonal Affect Disorder (SAD). The Google brought up Vitamin D and arthritis, vitamin D and insulin, Vitamin D and influenza and I was off!

[Duer 157099]

15. I have RESULTS! posted here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=222&topic_id=86401&mesg_id=86401