Sidewalks, Cops and ID

[GoneOffShore]

So today, Mrs GoS is on her way to work in Center City Philly. She sometimes rides on the pavement, slowly, because the drivers in Philly seem to think that "going for cyclists" is sport.

So, she stops at the paper stand and is approached by a cop. He had been sitting in his car across the street. He asked for ID. She said, "What have I done?"
"I'll tell you after I see some ID."
"I don't have any."
"You have to carry ID. It's required that you carry ID"
She finally got her license out. "So you do have ID. I could lock you up for lying to a police officer."
She was almost in tears and he let her go.

Where does it say that you must produce 'your papers'?

Anyone have any similar experiences?

[happyslug]

1. Pennsylvania Law does NOT Require you to carry ID except if you are driving.

But if you have it, and an officer asks for it is another story. To my knowledge you do NOT have to present it, but you can NOT say you do not have ID when you do. What the officer is suppose to do is take you to the local Magistrate District Judge and charge you for whatever crime you did under whatever name they have for you. Remember you do NOT have to tell the officer ANYTHING, but if you do it must be the truth.

One last comment, under Pennsylvania you can ride a bicycle on the Sidewalks except in business areas. Until a few years ago the law forbade ALL riding on Sidewalks but the legislature took notice of the fact many people did ride on Sidewalks and changed the law. THis was part of the change that also dropped the requirements that if a bike trail was next to a roadway, bicycle had to go on the bike trail. That is NO longer the law, if they is a bike trail next to a road the bike can use EITHER. The reason for this came out of an accident about 10-15 years ago on Allegheny's County South Park Bicycle Trail. People were walking on the trail blocking a speeding bicyclist who had been told to use the bike trail not the adjacent Corrigan Drive. If I remember right two people died because of the Accident do to the bike path NOT being designed for bikes going over 10 mph, and the cyclist going about 20. The Cyclist testified that he only went on the trail after an Officer told him to use the trail not the road (Yes the County paid an undisclosed settlement to the people who died). Corrigan Drive was flat roadway, while the bike trail went up and down the adjacent hillside with curves and hills that reduced sight distances AND provided fast speeds for short distances to un-experienced cyclists.

As a result of that Accident the Bicycle Code for Pennsylvania was changed, first bicycles are no longer required to go on a bike trail if the trail is next to a road AND people were permitted to ride bicycle on Sidewalks except in Business Districts.

Pennsylvania Bike Laws:
http://www.dot.state.pa.us/BIKE/WEB/bikelaws.htm

[SacredCow]

2. I've had a few run-ins....

The first time it happened was when I was riding home from work late at night (with all appropriate lights). My license was buried deep in my backpack and it was cold and raining buckets. All I wanted to do was get home and dry. So, he forces me to dig it out (getting everything in my bag wet) only to tell me he just stopped me because it was suspicious to see someone riding a bike in the rain at night. "Don't you have a car?" I did, but at the time I enjoyed commuting to work by bike (I then worked in a bike shop, in fact). So I got back on and gave him my best 3rd Reich salute and said, "So sorry not to conform, commandant." He gave me a look, but didn't press the issue, thankfully. From then on, I always have my hackles up when I'm on a bike and a police officer gives me a look. Oh, and when a cop says "ID" he means drivers license- period. I gave one my passport one time, and he got nasty.

I've heard the "you are required to carry ID" line a few times, but have never been able to find a definitive answer on that. From what I've seen, it's just grey enough to give the law enforcement enough ammo to harrass someone. Unfortunately, I was never in a position to be OK with testing that theory.

So what did the cop say she had done to warrant his attention?

[happyslug]

4. There is NO legal Requirement to carry ID.

For the state to pass such a requirement, it would then have to ISSUE such ID. No states have passed such ID law. If problem for the police is how to give you a ticket? Remember under the fifth amendment you do not have to tell the police ANYTHING, including your name. This is why the States adopted Driver's Licenses, so Police Officers could demand it and write the ID holder a ticket. For people without Licenses, Police Officers have to revert to older policy, i.e. take the person to a Judge and force him to post a bond (To avoid such time lost and money tied up, Drivers supported the idea of Driver's Licenses).

The States have permitted other uses of Driver's Licenses, including the Licenses to be used as ID by other people (Including private companies, i.e support for businesses), but the states have never made carrying Licenses, when you are NOT operating a car the law. Now most states will issue you ID if you request it (i.e. a non-driving driving licenses), but this is NOT required for anyone to have.

[Kolesar]

3. Cops have civil rights training and they know you don't have to carry an ID

They also have "how to be an a-hole training" and know how to lie to people and know they will not be called to account for it.

I would have to go with Happyslug's account of Pennsylvania bicycle laws. I suppose I should look up my state, too.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

5. Achtung, papier

My mother grew up in occupied Europe when the Nazis invaded and she remembers well how everyone, even pedestrians were constantly being asked for their papers by German soldiers.

[Fovea]

6. Badge please?

I know my rights, and you better show me your badge or arrest me now, as I am calling this in if you don't.