What Turned You Off Obama?

[rodeodance]

Got locked.
Someone said he got tombstoned.



Forum Name General Discussion: Primaries
Topic subject What Turned You Off Obama?
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4774697#4774697
4774697, What Turned You Off Obama?
Posted by Muzza on Tue Feb-26-08 05:29 AM

REASONS WHY I CANNOT SUPPORT OBAMA

I am writing this to explain why I cannot support Obama and to make it clear there is a logical, valid basis for why many people do not support him. I must admit that my dislike for him has intensified only recently. I previously liked him when he first started getting media attention. Granted I didn't know much about him in 2006/2007 but I thought he seemed likeable, attractive, charismatic and the prospect of a younger leader and man of color leading the country some day seemed exciting. But then things changed and bit by bit I began to turn from Obama...Here are some of the reasons which have certainly contributed to my rejection of him as a leader:

1. Anti-gay politics - Inviting anti-gay homophobe McClurkin to his campaign events in Oct 2007. I mean, that would be like Hillary Clinton inviting a member of the KKK to her campaign events - can you imagine the hysteria that would result? How dare Obama invite this man to his events and than claim to be a unifier?! Add in the story from 2004 when Obama refused to be in a photograph with the Mayor of San Francisco, who at that time was authorizing same sex marriage, and it's not looking good for gay rights.
http://www.gaycitynews.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18978548&BRD=2729&PAG=461&dept_id=568864&rfi=6
http://hillary.connexion.org/newsstory.cfm?id=12346&
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/02/05/BAM5US1B5.DTL

2. South Carolina - Accusing Hillary Clinton, or alluding to the possibility, that she and her husband were racist. To me that entire affair was Obama's desperate attempt to turn African-American votes away from Hillary Clinton and it worked. It was actually Obama's campaign who sent around a 4 page memo trying to whip up hysteria through the media in relation to this issue.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=QQY_9ZcsjpQ&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=vXXjWy-OztQ&feature=related

3. Iraq War position - the weakness of his position & his constant criticism of Clinton's actions way back really irk me. I find Obama's claim of the higher-ground in relation to the Iraq War very weak. The reality is that he was not in the US Senate when these decisions were made and he had nothing to do with it. It's very easy to sit on the sidelines and make all kinds of promises about a decision he had no part of. Had he been in the US Senate at that time and opposed the war, then I would credit him accordingly and he would have moral authority on this issue. But he wasn't and therefore he has no moral claim on this issue. He has voted to authorize war funding year after year. So where is the REAL opposition?

4. Hypocrisy in relation to special interests - Obama goes on and on about doing politics in a new way and not being controlled by special interests groups when in actual fact he has a long history of financial support from lobbyists and special interests groups. It astounds me that he still claims moral authority on this issue as well when he really doesn't have any right to considering his history of associations with lobbyists and special interest groups. He also has nil hesitation in dishing out hundreds of thousands of dollars to superdelegates - sounds like "establishment" behavior to me!
http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080222/NATION/853452725/1002
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/08/09/pacs_and_lobbyists_aided_obamas_rise /
http://www.capitaleye.org/inside.asp?ID=336

5. Criticism of Clinton's health care agenda and policy of mandating health insurance - As a firm believer in universal health care, I find it very difficult to support any politician who attacks another politician who tries to achieve this goal. It is so blatantly obvious that mandating health insurance coverage is the only way to achieve universal health care in the USA. Obama's fearmongering in relation to this has really offended me. He's tried to scare people into thinking that Clinton's health care policy will force some people into poverty just to get them covered with health insurance. Totally misleading. I also found his cheap dismissal of Clinton's previous 1990s attempts at health care reform to be very disrespectful - when he has tried to do something similar and succeeds, maybe then his criticism will hold more weight.

6. Sexism & ageism towards Hillary Clinton:
(a) behavior: completely dismissing Hillary Clinton's 35 years of public service experience as being meaningless and irrelevant. If Obama had Clinton's resume we'd never hear the end of it! But suddenly when a woman has experience, it doesn't mean anything. The entire Obama campaign is premised on the negative notion that SHE (Clinton) is old, boring, and uninspiring whereas HE (Obama) is young, exciting and inspirational. Obama has used his male privilege and youth privilege as leverages to dismiss Clinton's obviously more impressive public service and political resume and I find that offensive. It shows a complete lack of respect for her, both as a woman and as a more mature person.
(b) rudeness: snubbing Clinton at the State of the Union when he was becoming close buddies with Ted Kennedy who ironically is part of that "establishment" that Obama claims to have no allegiance to...
(c) language: eg saying Clinton was "likeable enough" (he should never have answered that question in that way), the comment about "when she's feeling down...the claws come out"
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/02/is-obama-using.html

7. Arrogantly dismissing all political achievements of others before his arrival on the national political stage: Sure, there's plenty to fault about politics in Washington but this line that "all good ideas die in Washington" is complete and utter nonsense. So how did the USA get to where it is today in 2008? Not one good idea became a practical success in Washington before 2008? Give me a break. This notion that Obama's arrival signals a new era in politics is one which I completely dispute & dismiss.

8. Dishonesty about use of Deval Patrick's speech material & completely dismissing the importance of crediting sources when using other people's material. What kind of message does this send to people? That it's ok to plagiarize, as long as it's from a buddy? To me this completely called into question Obama's character and ethics.

9. Hypocrisy - claiming to be above "dirty politics" but being more than willing to engage in it when the cameras aren't rolling: eg South Carolina hysteria, accusing Clinton of plagiarism after the Texas debate, the "harry & sally" healthcare mailer. I understand that politics can involve smear and dirty games, and fair enough, but don't claim you are above it and then keep doing it! That's called hypocrisy - saying one thing and doing another!

10. Empty promises - It worries me that Obama has "drawn in" new voters to the voting process with his "yes we can" message. How despondent and disillusioned will they feel when they come down from the clouds and realize that achieving monumental changes isn't as easy as chanting "yes we can"? I am a reasonable and open-minded person who is open to an engaging and connecting a charismatic style of leadership. But with Obama, my clear sense is that there is a lack of authenticity in many of his promises - combine this with all of the above 9 factors and I am than unable to hear anything he has to say.

11. Behavior of SOME (not all) Obama fans. I think that Obama, as a leader of a supposed "movement" has to take some responsibility for the behavior of his followers and his impact on them. Never in my life have I seen so much filth and vile language spread across the Internet about one person as I have seen with the online vilification of Hillary Clinton during this election. The amount of anti-Hillary hate and smear that has infected youtube, facebook, myspace, forums and news blogs is mind boggling. And a significant chunk of this is new and has been contributed by pro-obama fanatics. Seeing all of this filth, and being subjected to attacks from obsessed Obama supporters, I began to question once again how "unifying" Obama really was if significant numbers of his followers believe it's ok to infect the Internet with so much hate about one person. That's a worry.

TO BE CONTINUED...

[libbygurl]

1. Wow, that looked like a perfectly reasonable post. Still think the mods are not biased after this?

I certainly don't. Which is why I think the incredible anti-Clinton bias on DU has been allowed to grow and infect the boards without much control by the mods.

Why on earth would muzza get tombstoned? He was one of the best to come to DU and defend HRC with his wit and good humour. I think I'll seriously consider leaving DU after this.

And I now regret very much giving my pretty sums of money to DU last Valentine's fundraising drive! Shoulda gone to Clinton instead!

[Clinton Crusader]

2. Wait, hang on. He got TOMBSTONED for this???

:wtf:

Now I know you're lyin'. What is so outrageous about this post? Someone? Anyone? I had wondered why so much BS was allowed to fly around here unchecked. Why so many attacks, and ridiculous barrages were allowed to grow and fester and get more and mor5e 'violent' and not one mod ever stepped in. I alerted the mods to a thread I found especially offensive and nothing was done.

Now you say THIS was locked and the author tombstoned. For what??? For daring to say something askew about St. Barack? Have these people all gone mad? Are they pods? On quaaludes? Victims of mind control?

I think I also have to leave this place, and yes I regret forking over money here, it should have gone to Hillary.

[Jamastiene]

4. He definitely got TS'ed for it.

See here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=215656

[Jamastiene]

3. The bias is definitely showing at this point.

It's a shame really.

[qnr]

5. Well, I'm not sure he got tombstoned for this, at least not for the OP. Perhaps some

heated activity later in the thread, or in a different thread entirely? I did see a mention of Muzza having (paraphrasing, I don't remember the exact statement) 384 anti-Obama posts so I was thinking (hoping really, because I'd hate to think something like this could get you TSed) that the locking was because of heated exchanges and coincidental as far that the tombstoning went.