Selfishness, self-centeredness!

[RetroLounge]

Selfishness, self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of our troubles. Driven by a hundred forms of fear, self-delusion, self-seeking, and self-pity, we step on the toes of our fellows and they retaliate. Sometimes they hurt us, seemingly without provocation, but we invariably find that at some time in the past we have made decisions based on self which later placed us in a position to be hurt.

So our troubles, we think, are basically of our own making. They arise out of ourselves, and the alcoholic is an extreme example of self-will run riot, though he usually doesn't think so. Above everything, we alcoholics must be rid of this selfishness. We must, or it kill us! God makes that possible. And there often seems no way of entirely getting rid of self without His aid. Many of us had moral and philosophical convictions galore, but we could not live up to them even though we would have liked to. Neither could we reduce our self-centeredness much by wishing or trying on our own power. We had to have God's help.

******************

In early sobriety I was referred back to this paragraph on page 62 of the big book so often that I would reread it before I called my sponsor. :D

Now a month away from my 17th AA birthday, I am again seeing the wisdom in it's words. I have spent the last 18 months in a downward spiral brought on by the disolution of my marriage, a crushing amount of personal debt, the loss of "friends" on the program and semi-severe depression and isolation. It has been difficult for me to see my part in much of what has ocurred in my life ove the past year and-a-half, but I am beginning to see small glimpses of dirt on my side of the street, decisions based on self which if not a direct cause, at least opened the door to much pain and loss.

The answer of course in in the steps. Specifically steps 3 - 9 in my case. The problem is my anger and resentments have built up such a wall between me and any kind of higher power, that my spirituality is completely nonexistent, and my prayers consist of Fuck You God... So this makes taking a step 3 a daunting thought. I began a 4th step over a year ago, and got so amazingly bitter I put it away.

I think the time is quickly approaching for me to get a sponsor locally (My sponsors keep moving out of state. Is that a pattern i should worry about? :rofl:) and get my ass in gear on doing that 4th and 5th before what I've seen happen to others becomes an option for me.

Any discussion on this topic would truly be beneficial...

thanks

Sobriety, the adventure continues...

RL

[NMDemDist2]

1. first of all RL

:hug: :hug: :hug:

now then, what was the topic????


oh yeah.....

that one phrase "but we invariably find that at some time in the past we have made decisions based on self which later placed us in a position to be hurt." has kicked my ass so many times

I have a pattern (that I realize thanks to 4th steps over and over) that makes me think for some damned reason I can change a situation for the better just by my very presence. It is so incredibly ego driven and kicks my ass over and over.

What I always forget in those situations is the 11th step prayer. Especially the last bit

Lord, grant that I may seek rather to comfort than to be comforted;
to understand, than to be understood;
to love, than to be loved.
For it is by self-forgetting that one finds.
It is by forgiving that one is forgiven.......

when I remember that, do that, practice that, it never ceases to amaze me how my relations start improving. Especially the relationship with my self (and, by extension, my HP)

don't know if that helps, but that's my experience :shrug:

and one more thing......

:hug:

[RetroLounge]

4. Forgiveness.

def: Forgiveness has been described as a quality by which one ceases to feel resentment against another for a wrong he or she has committed against oneself. Forgiveness can be granted with or without the other asking for forgiveness. Some people also believe that persons can forgive themselves, that it is possible to forgive groups of people, or that it is possible to be forgiven by God.

I think that's the key. I have not been able to forgive the two people who caused the marriage to fail (the 3rd being myself).

Ah, 4th steps...

:hug:

RL

[wildeyed]

2. In addition to a new sponsor,

which sounds like an excellent idea, have you tried daily meditation? I have found yoga, to physically release stress and resentments, and meditation, to open up to a conscious contact with God, very helpful.

Also, how severe is the depression? My sister suffers from depression and short term use of anti-depressants have been a big help to her, just to keep her out of the downward spiral. Sometimes, once the depression starts, it is difficult to arrest without a medical intervention. It might be worth talking to a licensed therapist or medical doctor about the problem.

[RetroLounge]

3. I am just coming off the Zoloft

This was my last month taking it. That and a short term dose of Xanax for panic and anxiety attacks did the trick.

As far as Yoga, meditation, etc. I have considered it, but just haven't got there yet. Now that I live alone, I have taken morning and evening quiet times to meditate.

RL

[Why Syzygy]

5. In 1995,

after attending a three week residential but still struggling with step 3, my husband announced he was leaving and this time for good. We had a couple of very short separations during that summer. I said, "screw it! I'm gonna drink". And I did for another 8 months. After that I was able to surrender enough to leave that state and return to Texas where my family lived, and stay sober for a year and then off and on. I've never had more than a five year stretch.

I don't buy into all of the Program's belief structure. Most of my misery has come when I have put others FIRST. When I have planned my life to better suit THEIRS. When I trusted THEM. Only to have the carpet pulled out from under. Only when I take care of MYSELF do I have freedom and can be resentment free. Just my contrary opinion. YMMV

Hope you feel better.

[NMDemDist2]

8. hi votes! glad to see you!

I think there is a big difference between selfishness and self care. One must take care of oneself or we'd be useless to anyone.

I remember one day before we were married the wise and wonderful Mr. Ketchup had dropped by a function to bring me something. Another person tried to put him to work at the function and he wasn't feeling well and told them "No, I'm going home." the person said "Don't you know you can't say no to an AA request?" and the w&w Mr. K responded "What Alanon told you that shit??"

:rofl:

It's a fine line we try to walk I think, but I agree I have to make the choices in my life that are best for me first and foremost.

again, good to see you and hope you are doing well :hi:

[Kajsa]

10. Great answer, AZDem!

I've got to remember that one the next time
I hear the " AA request" ultimatum- LOL!

You brought up a great point,
there's a big difference between
selfishness and selfcare.

:pals:

[FloridaJudy]

13. Can't say no? Not the AA I know!

A friend approached me after an AA meeting: she was doing a work-shop, and wanted to know if I wanted to participate. It did conflict with my schedule, but had I been more interested in the topic, I'm sure I could have made other arrangements, so I started in on the excuses "Oh, Tuesday I have another meeting, Wednesday I meet with my sponsor, and Thursday's my yoga class, and...". She looked me in the eye and said "Judy, 'No' is a complete sentence".

I've always remembered that. Being a people-pleaser, I'd never before realized that I could actually say "no" to a request without coming up with complicated justifications.

As to Alanon, I think the first thing a member needs to learn there is how to say no.

[MediumBrownDog]

6. I second the yoga thought

When nothing else helps, sitting on the mat and BREATHING one second at a time does it. When I get past this period in my life, I will credit two things. First, the people on this board. Second, yoga. Seriously. You can't do yoga hungover. You can't do yoga half-assed. It is all or nothing. It demands that you pay attention. You can't pay attention drunk.

[Kajsa]

11. Hi MBD,

It's really good to hear from you!

How are you?

:hi:

[idgiehkt]

7. nevermind

.

[RetroLounge]

9. I never do mind your posts...

Please continue...

:hi:

RL

[Kajsa]

12. Retro, my sponsor moved over 500 miles away

from me- she found her true love,( who sadly passed away-her husband, of cancer.)

So that does happen- It's not you, damnit!- LOL!

But getting a new one, locally, would be a good start.

If your conscious contact with HP is blocked, that's bad.
You'll get it back, it's a temporary setback, but you'll need
guidance along the way.

Those f*cking resentments will kill us, so start by practicing
one of the hardest things I learned here,

Pray for them.
Pray for all the Mofos you can, and it will ease your pain and lighten your load.


You're on the right track- just keep going. ;-)

Love ya,

Kajsa :hug:

[Justpat]

14. Don't worry about the Fuck You God brand of prayer

At least you are talking. It is a place to start.

That was the only prayer I engaged in early in sobriety.
I hated It's divine guts. And told It so as often as possible.

I'm sorry that everything started to fall apart in your life.
But sometimes when the established order of our lives begins to
break apart, it is so that more Light can find its way in.
Don't be afraid. Ask your MOFO Diety for help. And then let go.

When I am having trouble meditating, I just quiet my mind for a few
minutes of quality time with the old HP rather than go for some
big extragvanza of meditation. Works for me.

:hug:

[RetroLounge]

15. Thanks...

:hug:

RL