When we will stop needing gay AA groups

[dsc]

I haven't been to a meeting in a while for a variety of reasons. But lately life got chaotic so I desided to seek out a meeting and went to a gay one. I am glad they are here, part of my chaos is due to issues about being gay at least peripherally, but part of it was sad in that we have to keep a double anonyminity. It took me forever to find a sponser due to having the advice I should have a sponser of a different gender but then going to a place where gays were almost non existent.

I know many people in AA are tolerant and some aren't (just like anywhere else) but clearly it is still enough of a problem that gay members feel the need to self segregate. I will likely come back to that group when I need a meeting but I kind of wish it wasn't a needed group.

[NMDemDist2]

1. I dunno

I got sober in California and we had lots of gay members in my large home group.

there were some gay meetings too, but they came to the 'regular' meetings too and were welcomed.

on the rare occasion a newcomer said something, the oldtimers took them aside and gave them a talking to.

a suffering alcoholic is just that, gay straight black white brown old young rich poor period.

[dsc]

2. fair enough

I honestly have never been out in AA except at the gay AA meetings. In my early recovery I just kind of kept that to myself and the sponser I eventually found. When I became more out at work etc, I was not really attending meetings as I was down here where I haven't really found meetings that clicked for me nor did I really find a huge need to find them. Now I am going so I guess I might find out how it is. The meeting I went to last night specificly mentioned keeping anonyminity of that meeting in other meetings so I am presuming a problem exists to some extent. Of course, people may have known I was gay and simply just didn't mention it out of kindness in my early recovery.

[Redstone]

3. Jeez, I'm not happy to hear that you have that kind of problem. I'd think that people

united to deal with a common problem would leave everything else aside.

But then, I'm new at this.

Redstone

[CraftyGal]

4. My sponsor, who is definetly heterosexual, is aware that I am bisexual.

She is fine wit it, however it is a big question because the gay groups also help the bisexual person.

CraftyGal

[FloridaJudy]

5. Maybe I'm just plain lucky

But I've never heard anyone speak disrespectfully of GBLTs in the rooms. I did hear one homophobic comment from an AA member, but it was not during a meeting. I politely pointed out that that sort of remark was not acceptable to me, and she hasn't done it since. She's married to a rabid Republican, poor thing, so I imagine she gets exposed to a lot of hateful speech at home.

Oddly enough, the only time I heard something viciously racist during a meeting was in Northern California, of all unlikely places. It may exist here, but at least people are decent enough not to drag it to a meeting. I think they know just what an unfriendly reception it would get.

[CraftyGal]

6. In my homegroup we still get homophobic remarks.

In fact I was chairing the speaker meeting for November and asked a friend in the program to speak. People walked out becasue he identified as being gay. My secretary was mad until she listened to the whole story and was able to identify with him on the key points. It is a struggle to be in a group that has homophobic members, however as one member says "If I given you a resentment, I have given you something to work on." I firmly believe that over time people can change, because if they don't they will drink again, it is just a matter of time.

CraftyGal

[Kajsa]

8. Damn, that is sad, CraftyGal.

I'm sorry to hear this.


:(

[CraftyGal]

9. This same group has had other issues with it as well....

TrogL keeps reminding me that the people that talk about Christ (yes we have those) are just authoritarian freepers. Just ticks me off when in a meeting they talk a good talk and then after the meeting they are abusive.

Wednesday I went to the Women's meeting (apparently this is the only group with a women's meeting in Edmonton) as this would be the last one for me this year as TrogL and I are in Niagara Falls next week. It was a good meeting, spoke with my sponsor. It was a quick hi and a quick question, both done in hushed whispers. For those of you who don't know, I am also a knitter/crochet and I am known as the go to person when it comes to either craft. I have just celebrated 3 years of sobriety and I have been very active in service work for 2 1/2 years of the 3 years, including chairing meeting. There has never been issues with me sitting there knitting/crochet until this year.

In February I went through a very traumatic event, so now in addition to working on sobriety, I am trying to work through Post Traumatic Stress. I was having panic attacks just being in the rooms, so my psychiatrist said if I need to knit or crochet to stay in the seats for sobriety than so be it. I, now do not go to noon meetings due to the crowds, and when I attend one of the 4 gay meeting here, I inform the chairperson ahead of time so they don't wonder. I can't believe the amount of support I have had from the gay meetings. They have been my calm in the storm.

Well I was having a particular trying day and I had to chair a women's meeting. We rotate the chair position every month, so I was chairing in March. I ended up knitting at the chairs desk, a very simple pattern so that I could look at people and watch the time so that everyone got a chance to speak. Because of the amount of meeting that this group holds (28/week) the need someone who makes sure that chair people show up and find subs or replacements when no one does. Anyways, the Chair of Chairs what at the meeting and she todl me no more knitting at the chair's desk. This has since become group conscience, so I no longer chair meetings unless someone asks me to sub for them. Fast forward to this week, I was informed that I could no longer knit in the women's meeting at all, and if I did there would be a group conscience decided and if one person complains I would be asked to leave or I wouldn't be able to knit during the meeting.

So I am now evaluating whether this is the group for me. Unfortunately, this is the only meeting that my sponsor attends and often we meet at the meeting and then get together after that. I have 2 sponsees that will only attend this meeting, so I will meet them there and then go for coffee to discuss steps or what is happening in their lives. One sponsee and her husband have chosen to not attend this meeting because of the "rules" and judgments that have been taking place, especially surrounding people coming back. We have a couple of members that are FASD (Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder) and it has been a lot harder for them to quit drinking. Oh the gay meetings have no issues with the knitting thing. In fact I have had members that have told me they watch my hands and find that their breathing has slowed down and find it meditative to watch me knitting. Some have said they got more out of the meeting because they heard better because of being in a meditative state. That happens to me as well.

So for me I will always attend the gay meetings.

Sorry for the long rant, off the soap box now.

[Kajsa]

10. I'm sorry you encountered this,CraftyGal.

I've been to meetings where ladies knit and it doesn't bother me
a bit. Yes, it is relaxing to watch AND you can listen at the same time.

Meetings with too many rules aren't for me.
Structure- yes Stifling restrictions-no

this one was a big tip off that something was wrong here,

"judgments that have been taking place, especially surrounding people coming back. "

We don't do that in AA. We always welcome back our members, without judgment.
To help them stay sober, we ask them to avoid the pitfalls and slippery slopes they
were on preceding the slip.

If I had been treated with disdain when I came back, I may never have gotten sober.

That's BS and it hurts people.

Try out different meetings until you find another one where you feel comfortable.
It may take a while, but it is worth the effort.

Meanwhile, you'll have a chance to meet some different, interesting people.

Good luck, you certainly have a lot on your plate.

Hang in there.

:hug:

[CraftyGal]

12. Thanks....

when we get back from Niagara Falls, I can take a better look at the meeting and what I need to do to maintain sobriety. TrogL has suggested we go to other meetings and he usually has others that he does. We started a meeting on Thursday nights that's geared towards the GBLT community, however we a fortunate if anyone shows up! I enjoy attending the women's meeting and it is frustrating that it is the only women's meeting in all of Edmonton.

Thanks for the support guys.

Craftygal

[NMDemDist2]

11. holy crap! I do needlework to shut up my mind so I can listen

without my brain constantly thinking what I would say

geez.

what a bunch of control freaks, but as far as a group conscience to ban such a stupid thing, here's what I know about meetings.

Meetings that break the traditions don't last long. and I'd call this a violation of tradition(s) 1, 2, 3, 5, 9, 10 and 12.

[NMDemDist2]

13. too late to edit, but I think I'd start a new woman's group n/t

[CraftyGal]

14. Never thought of that.....hmm...I know a couple of locations that I could set one up at. nt

[NMDemDist2]

15. lots (most?) of new meetings get started by a resentment

all you need is a place, a coffee pot and a Big Book

:hi:

[Joe Chi Minh]

16. If they know the knitting has a therapeutic, calming effect on you, that strikes me as

totally contrary to what I understand from this thread to be the ethos of AA. What's more, it suggests a fragility and brittleness on the part of the complainants which, as long as they nurture it, instead of cultivating a degree of personal empathy and humility with regard to others in the same AA boat, will hold back their own recovery; their own propensity for recovery.

The same with regard to homosexuality, for that matter. It's supposed to be about helping each other to stop drinking, isn't it?

[CraftyGal]

17. That is very true.

Because we are human and drunks, we bring in our angers and prejudices when we decide to join AA. What AA steps teach us is how to turn around those angers and prejudices. In other words, Trust "God", Clean House and Help Others. We certainly didn't get the way were overnight, so we can't expect change overnight. I guess because I know these ladies have more "time" in the program than I do, I expected more...lol.

TrogL had noticed for the last year that there has been a lot of homophobia and controlling behavior that he chose to go to other meetings, as this was interfering with his sobriety. You see we live in a primarily Conservative city, so there are only 4 gay groups, one which we started.

I am going to look at this in the New Year and not sweat it.

Craftygal

[Joe Chi Minh]

18. Exactly. There are times when taking the line of least resistance is a virtue,

the only virtue, because the only sensible course of action to take.

I'm a social conservative, but I know that everyone has enough genuine problems worthy of their attention to deal with, without deigning to court futile negative feelings in response to the deliberately offensive behaviour of others. There are times when you will feel down, in any case. Don't multiply the occasions that will lead to them, when you can sit down and ponder other options.

[Kajsa]

7. Dsc, I sure hope you aren't finding

bigotry at the meetings!

Like Redstone said, we are there to recover, not judge people
or discriminate against them.

I remember very early in my sobriety being at a meeting where
a squirrelly one blurted out the terms " towel head"and "sand n***ers"
when discussing an encounter with a man from the Middle East.
There was a member there who is Pakistani. He looked like someone had
just hit him over the head with a 2 by 4!

I lost it blurting out "F**k that sh*t!!" ( I swore a lot in the beginning)
" We are here to recover, leave your f**king bigotry at the door and
don't bother picking it up again when you leave!!"

I thought I would be kicked out but I wasn't.

That was the first and last time I lost it at a meeting.

Thankfully, I have never encountered bigotry at meetings since.

Hang in there.

:hug:

[RetroLounge]

19. Gay groups. Young People Groups. Nonsmoking groups.

Native Americam Groups. Women-only groups. Men-only groups. Hispanic Groups. etc.

They are all outside issues, as far as AA goes, but each group is autonomous and can form and do what they want within the traditions.

My experience: 1991 with less than a year of sobriety, I moved back to Chicago and lived near Halsted and Roscoe, no car. If you know that area, it's referred to as Boys Town.

I found a meeting every night of the week that I could walk to, and all of them were gay AA. Those meeting saved my ass. Every single one of those meetings were based around the primary purpose of AA and that the only requirement for membership was a desire to stop drinking. No one asked me if I was gay or straight, no one really cared. I shared with individual members and they said no sweat, stay. I was welcomed and I found a fellowship that was working the steps and I socialized after the meetings for coffee, and I stayed sober for that year that I lived there. I owe a great debt to those meeting, and those members. The fact that they were gay AA was irellevant to me, but very important to the members there, and I respected that as much as their experience, strength, and hope that they brought to me.

My home group here in Milwaukee usually has about 80-100 people on a given Sunday, and easily 20-25 are gay members. They never feel the need to hide who they are at the meeting, and there is never any reasson to. But many of these friends of mine also attend meetings at the Galano club too.

Are they necessary still? Only as long as they want them to be or they need them to be, and more power to them.

:hi:

RL

[dsc]

20. I used to live there

wasn't sober though. Cool story.

[RetroLounge]

21. It looked like a fun area to be a drunk too

But I'm glad I lived there sober.

:hi:

RL