I know it violates a tradition or two, but I need to bitch about a meeting.

[Critters2]

I was on a phone meeting this morning, which I do about once a week. This really is my regular meeting, and I know and feel comfortable with the other regulars. We're also a pretty welcoming bunch, and have enough experience with the program that we can be helpful to newcomers.

I won't go into detail, except to say that a person called in, introduced himself at the outset, then seemed to disappear as we did the readings. Then, when we got to sharing time, he came back on, and launched into this share about how he'd left AA because they expect the meetings to follow a set format, and that he was pissed to find that EA has a set format as well. He said he didn't need the readings, that lots of people don't need to do the readings at each meeting, but really just need to share. Then he said he was starting his own program that would not have any readings or such at every meeting but would be just an open sharing time, because he knew better how to help people than those who started AA or EA or any of the anonymous groups.

It was really obnoxious, but what most pissed me off was, well, two things. First, this is a good meeting with people who really care about each other, who've found help in the program. We are not "control freaks" as this person called us, but committed to a way of life that has proven itself in our own experience. I was really mad that this person didn't really care about any of us, or about hearing our experiences. That seemed hugely disrespectful.

But what REALLY made me mad was that the person admitted to hanging up during the readings of the concepts, Just for Todays, slogans, traditions, steps, etc; and just called back during the sharing time. I mean, how rude is that?! I think we all handled it well, thanked him for sharing, just went on with more shares, etc. I hope he will have learned from that--that we were respectful even in the face of disrespect.

What sort of concerns me is that I volunteered to lead the meeting next week, and fear this person will try to take over, or will give bad impressions to other newcomers.

So, what I need to do is remind myself that I am powerless over other people. Thanks for letting me share. And forgive me if this was inappropriate.

[Joe Chi Minh]

1. Why are you upset? Say to him, you don't seem to realise, you wouldn't be mouthing off at us

like that, if you didn't need us. We don't need you.

Why should we hand over a ready-formed outfit which works for us to you? You're very wise to consider starting up your own programme. Who could complain about that?

[Critters2]

2. Thanks for putting things in perspective.

Part of the frustration, for me, is that I couldn't say anything to him. I firmly believe in the "no cross-talk" rule, precisely so that meetings don't become debates or shouting matches. So, we all just had to sit quietly through his rant.

I hope he does go off and start his own program.

Again, thanks.

[Joe Chi Minh]

5. My pleasure, Critters2. I'm glad it makes sense to you. It is obviously he who

has the "control freakery" problem. Kind of ironical.

[FlyingSquirrel]

3. This was our course:

We realized that the people who wronged us were perhaps spiritually sick. Though we did not like their symptoms and the way they disturbed us, they, like ourselves, were sick too. We asked God to help us show them the same tolerance, pity, and patience that we would cheerfully grant a sick friend. When a person offended we said to ourselves, "This is a sick man. How can I be helpful to him? God save me from being angry. Thy will be done."

We avoid retaliation or argument. We wouldn't treat sick people that way. If we do, we destroy our chance of being helpful. We cannot be helpful to all people, but at least God will show us how to take a kindly and tolerant view of each and every one.

---

We reviewed our fears thoroughly ... We asked ourselves why we had them. Wasn't it because self-reliance failed us? ... Perhaps there is a better way -- we think so. For we are now on a different basis; the basis of trusting and relying upon God. We trust infinite God rather than our finite selves. We are in the world to play the role He assigns.

:hi: Hope this helps!

[Joe Chi Minh]

4. Even as I wrote my post, I naturally thought of the same truths you enunciated

in your post. I stand by my post in its essence, but dealing with other fragile people would, as you indicted, also require some measure of sensitivity in the way you proceed. Don't forget either that he was not the only fragile person concerned. The lives of all those people at AA, some evidently who can't bear even the mention of God, will be placed in jeopardy if that individual is not taken to task in quite a firm way, and shown how irrational his unsolicited remonstrations were.

From a practical point of view, in fact, it has been my experience that, in our actual daily lives, there is truth in the saying that the perfect is the enemy of the good. Sometimes a person who wants to make your life harder, just requires you to make it clear that enough is enough. It is as if that was all they were ever waiting for, and it's quite a relief to them. I didn't work this out. It happened as a result of my "losing it", and bawling the person out! Two of them actually. After one of which (in the army), against a big and particularly unpleasant character, the lads on the floor below were in hysterics, because they heard me bellowing at him.

But you have helped me "join the dots" re Christ's precept to "turn the other cheek" being a counsel of perfection. The Catholic Church teaches that that precept is a counsel of perfection, and it struck me that all Christ's teachings are counsels of perfection. Why make that distinction? "You are to be perfect, even as your heavenly Father is perfect". Wasn't that what Jesus enjoined?

Now, I can see how it connects with my actual experience of the issue in different circumstances in my life. My new-found wisdom (not exactly directly related to perfection!), arose, not from meditation on the theme, but a result of my losing my temper. A kind of serendipity sometimes God seems to allow flawed characters like me. Time enough for perfection in that regard, when you're a bit more serene and venerable all round. Grace builds upon nature. Angelic heights are not immediately accessible. And that gives rise to some confusion to some Protestants, since clearly we keep on sinning one way or another, and keep going back to confession!

This is not the first time I've seen a member of AA feeling kind of apologetic about it to some trouble-making loon, as if they needed to justify AA and their membership. AA will be saving people's lives long after they're six foot under. Sure it doesn't work for everyone. So what? The idea of disaffected odd-balls cowing AA members into feeling they have to justify it is just beyond bizarre. Let them rant on, here, and as long as it's out of earshot when you're at a meeting.

Glad you brought the matter up though, because of our human fragility and the need to be sensitive to the condition of the people we address. I'm thinking of that wily Abigail, who waited until hubby had slept off his night of carousing, before telling him how narrowly he and his male employees had missed being killed by David and his men. But every situation is different. It might be appropriate to speak to that character even when he's drunk. It may be the only opportunity.

Whatever the case, a twofold approach commends itself to my way of thinking: firmly put him in the picture, and pray for him and all of you.

[old mark]

6. C2: as in ANY other "A" meeting, he CHOSE to be there - and thus

put himself into the group. If he doesn't like the way things are, he is free to find another group anywhere that suits him better, or free to go back to what he was doing before. Many times, people early in recovery are trying to find excuses to stop the process and get back to whatever they were doing before. Usually this involves some self pity and justification by blaming others.
You have NO obligation to try to save this guy - keep to your group's standards and concentrate on your self.

Good luck.

mark