Now don't get me wrong,

[ismnotwasm]

I like male nurses. As a women I personally wouldn't want to do anything else but nursing, and I'm a very capable person in a lot of capacities. As I was looking over this article and the examples, it struck me once again that while women will choose nursing as a primary profession, one that's expected (I almost typed "easy" oy..)and socially acceptable, men can choose nursing, well, because they feel like it. Now matter how many strides women have made in "non-traditional women's roles. Or how close we come to political power, back on the farm so to speak, nursing remains a Woman's Role

"In fact, according to the American Nurses Association, just 6% of nurses in the U.S. are men. Yet the disparity is declining as men are increasingly lured by respectable salaries, steady work and demand in both big cities and small towns"
http://www.nydailynews.com/money/2008/05/12/2008-05-12_stereotypes_down_for_male_nurses.html

It's interesting. When I work in floor nursing as I'm currently doing, I don't have to wear uncomfortable clothes. My attractiveness, or lack of it, isn't an issue. I can announce that I'm a feminist and find kindred souls or at least ones who will talk about it. Even Male nurses are often more open to topics without the defensiveness I've found in other professions. A bit a maverick,while I agree nurses get into the profession "to help people" as one former nurse turned IT guy put it, I told him "I thought it was because we liked to pick scabs" (My way of pointed out that "helping people" may include being a hardass and constantly seeing some of what would commonly be be regarded as disgusting shit)

Oh, and read some of the comments in the article. One or two are very strange.

[bliss_eternal]

1. When the economy takes a nosedive--we see articles like this...

...almost as if to say,"...hey guys--losing your jobs to outsourcing? Make quick and easy cash as a nurse! How hard can it be? If a chick can do it, so can you! " :eyes: Most nurses work harder than doctors, in my opinion.

Don't get me wrong, nothing against men entering the profession but there are still sexist (and racist) assumptions made in the field that are disturbing. Articles like this seem to reinforce such notions.

I had friends that were nurses, some were NP's. They thought it was interesting (and frustrating) how frequently male medical assistants, male lvn's and male rn's were immediately assumed to be the doctor--and patients assumed they as the NP was "the assistant," not the care provider.

One of my physicians is an asian male, his wife is also a doctor. He and I had an interesting conversation about his experiences in medical school(in the south):scared:. (What he shared is enough for another thread entirely). As a woman, I was really troubled to hear his wife (also asian) is frequently assumed to be "the nurse" because she is "of color", and not the doctor (usually when she was working at the VA Hospital). Or how frequently patients will call her by her name and not "doctor" as people automatically refer to her male colleagues.

[ismnotwasm]

2. Happens for sure

At the teaching hospital where I work, there's a great mix of male/female residents, although most of the attendings are male. That landscape is changing though.

Nursing, because it's a "female" profession is consistently devalued by some even though it's a wide open profession with more opportunities now than any other profession I can think of.

To fight the "just a nurse" stigma, there's a push for more and more education, for instance a PhD in nursing degree is going to be required to advanced practice nurses in certain states. A potential problem as I see it is similar to the push to end the LPN programs--they fill the long term care niche. RN's tend to not hang out in LTC. Advanced education is great, but we need good floor nurses as well. The other thing is someone DOES decide on an advance degree, the question always arises "Why don't you become a doctor" (Traditionally male/power/status)People don't understand Medicine and Nursing are overlapping but completely different disciplines. One of my favorite Doc's started out as a nurse. She knew it wasn't what she wanted and moved on.

This article was a bit condescending I thought, and you're right about the asumptions

[bliss_eternal]

3. I agree the article was condescending...

It's interesting you bring up the "just a nurse" stigma and the push for more education. I considered becoming a nurse, and am aware of this push. As well as the (I'm hoping unintentional) divisions created because of it.

There's the whole ADN (Associate degree in nursing) vs. the BSN (Bachelors degree in nursing)thing. Not sure of your state, but here there were diploma programs for a while--which were dismantled. I see questions from future nurses about which is better, who gets more respect, who has more "responsibility" (read as who gets to assign the duty of emptying a bed pan vs. who has to actually empty it). It's frustrating to see as it seems more divisive than anything else.

Also there's the issue of which nurses will have the access to such education. Some nurses need to work, so it's more reasonable for them to start as a lvn and bridge into RN through a community college. Same for some with the adn to bsn--some facilities here have on-site bachelors programs for their RN's--which helps those that needed to work, too. But there's this attitude that a bachelors educated nurse is better than one educated through a hospital or junior college. A lot of the old-school nurses that are keen on "skills", and progressive minded nurses seem to understand that it's bs. But the attitude still seems to exist just the same. :shrug:

It also tends to divide nurses on the basis of race, gender and their socioeconomic backgrounds. :(

[spooky3]

4. One of the best examples of sexism

There has been a shortage of qualified nurses for as long as I can remember. A chronic shortage should cause salaries to rise relative to other occupations. But nursing salaries haven't. There is also academic research evidence that as the proportion of women in an occupation rises, relative pay declines - this is after relevant factors such as training, education, skill, experience, etc. are controlled.

[bliss_eternal]

5. Confirms it for me.

When Gov. Musclehead (Shriver's husband) entered office and immediately went after the nurses, I called sexism.

Sure he also declared war on other city, county and state employees not long after that (i.e. teachers, school personel, police officers, fire personnel, etc.)by cutting their budgets, salaries, equipment, etc. But that seemed to come later, almost as if to say,"...see, I'm not a sexist--I went after the guy jobs, too." :eyes:

[ismnotwasm]

6. Showed his asshole--ism right away didn't he?

(not assholewasm, lol)That was quite a fight. I know he's tried to show himself as "centrist" in some areas since, but right from the gate he attacked the union he though he could bully.

I work at a job with good pay, good benefits, but remains a overwhelmingly hard job. Many nurses leave from burnout, or worse, injuries from trying to do physical labor. Male nurses have flat out told me they think it's because "women don't speak up for themselves" That's not it. We speak up, it's getting who needs to listen to listen and act that's hard. You have speak up again and again and again, and three guess what you get called then!

[bliss_eternal]

7. He'd been warned....

...not to mess with the nurses. Seriously. I was researching an article, and spoke to some that were part of that fight. They told me, Davis told him before he left not to screw with the nurses (Davis learned the hard way, too). But did musclehead listen? :rofl:

I agree, it's not that women don't speak up for themselves.

I also agree about his centrist bs. I'm always surprised that even Dems/progressives don't see through that crap, to who and what he really is. He doesn't fool me.

[susankh4]

8. I applaud you for staying in the field.

I had to get out. Simply could not take the stress any more....

I'm glad to see there are still thoughtful and reflexive women in the profession I served for over 30 years.

[ismnotwasm]

9. Thank YOU.

30 years is a long time, and I'm sorry about the state of nursing. Sad thing, is young nurses seem to not understand the uphill battles old school nurses had to pave the way for immensely improved conditions. Still, there are many who do, they care and are continuing the fight.

My next nursing stop will be community/public health with an emphasis on forensics. We'll see how I do there stress wise, but it's my current goal. I'll probably end my career doing hospice nursing--a love of mine as well as long term care nursing.