I don't want to sound like one of "those women"

[mzteris]

but right now - I am SO F'ING SICK of MEN who think they know better than women. I am sick to death of hearing men expound on what "they think is best" for women. For dismissing whatever you say because - hey - they're the man and . . . you're NOT.

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Sorry. I'm just about fed up right now. I know it's not "all men", but it sure as hell seems to be the majority, doesn't it?

[ismnotwasm]

1. I know

There are men who seem to have serious enough issue-driven anger problems to the point I think their health is impaired in some way. What I notice is those types are loudest, drowning out or driving away the voices of decent men with what to me are attention seeking behaviors.

The only other option is that they're hiding something.


Here on DU I rarely say what I really think; As the dominant and oppressive gender, heterosexual men are, in a way, responsible for the behavior of other men as well as themselves. Women should not be required to coddle or educate them. I can't believe they live in this world and don't 'get it.' Total bullshit. But I tend to be nicer than I feel, and I have enough respect and love for men to expect decent behavior and support for the improvement of the human condition everywhere. It's what I expect and, silly me, I'm always a little bit puzzled when it doesn't happen.

Every time a man sees or hears something harmful to women and turn their head or justify it or turn it into a whataboutme topic or argue with a woman's experience they are simply part of the larger problem. Period.

If I wanted to start shit, I'd say something along the lines of Men start the wars, Men developed our governmental and economic systems in the first place,(although an Ann Rand world would be a nightmare as well) Men to this day make most of the decisions throughout the world. Now THAT is a broad brush. You bought it boys; now own it.

[mzteris]

2. this place

and you know the thread - put me in a bad frame of mind - then I was on the phone with my brother... (a lot of baggage there!) - who was commenting on his daughter's new baby and etc... he was so dismissive of my opinions - about breastfeeding and circumsion -

I've had THREE (okay one was adopted - fostered at one week) - - - but it was like my opinion didn't count because HE knew better and the "male" doctor "knew better".... I just wish I'd had someone - anyone - in my corner when my son was born about the circumsion, I didn't want it - but EVERYONE else jumped on me about it - if only one person had've been in my corner, then maybe I could have withstood that pressure.

And too many women are talked out of breastfeeding for such stupid reasons. It is so easy to discourage a first time new mom. I wish I was there to support her.

I'm sorry. I'm just so angry right now. I feel like my opinion doesn't count. That *I* don't count. Dealing with the "ex" and his bull..., dealing with teenage and almost teenage sons - who are respectful, but - sometimes their dad's (negative) words creep into our conversations...

[ismnotwasm]

3. Sounds awful!

I'm happy to tell you that we're churning out about half women in medicine. And yes it does make a difference. I'd never go to a male doctor for anything except for surgery, and than only because they still dominate the profession there. When women doctors are good, they tend to be the best of the best IMO. (There is one who is the best I've ever seen and one of my personal hero's)

Circumcision, you know my daughter had my new grandson circumcised because she didn't want him to be made 'fun of' when he got older. She's well aware that it's unnecessary. Her husband had some influence on that decision of course, and it makes me sad. They both feel very strong about having the baby breastfed for a least a year thank goodness.

I'm doing my best to influence my older grandson--on total purpose too. We're very close and he can talk about a number of age appropriate issues regarding women's rights. My son, we'll he's grown, and he's ok, but he's like you say, certain language creeps in regarding women. Not towards me though, he knows better, but generally language, much like you'd see here at DU, and that, too makes me sad.
:hug:

[bliss_eternal]

7. women in medicine...

has been hit and miss....for me at least.
i've encountered some who are as bad, (if not worst) than the men--minimizing, dismissive, rude, misinformed, etc. i've learned (the hard way) that being a woman isn't a guarantee that someone is going to provide more compassionate, empathetic or even knowledgeable care (in regards to women's bodies, our health issues, current research, latest treatments, etc.).

i was told i was too young (by a woman) for perimenopausal symptoms....i learned after her dismissal (through research, second and third opinions) i was not, too young at the time (i was in my 30's).

i've heard of friends that experienced women physicians, that they didn't need to breastfeed. :eyes: :shrug:

....if only christiane northrup md, could be cloned. (sigh)

though, your experience (of women entering the field, etc.) does give me some hope for the field. i appreciate your sharing. :)

[ThomCat]

9. I've seen 5 women doctors just in the past few years.

My GP and doctors in 3 different specialties.

My General Practitioner is a woman, and she's an amazing doctor.

I've had women doctors who were Neurologists, Orthopedists, and a Rheumatologists.

One Neurologist didn't like to get tests done. She liked to guess based on her "professional judgment." Seriously. My next neurologist blamed ME because I didn't have test results.

Another Neurologist didn't even talk about neurology during our one visit. She saw that I was on pain medication, assumed I must be an addict and said she wasn't going to treat me until I detoxed. When I explained I was a chronic pain patient under a pain management doctor's care, she said that didn't matter. Stop taking all pain meds. I didn't need them.

When I asked her how I was supposed to manage my pain without my pain meds, she said that once I detoxed I'd find that the pain was all in my head. Obviously, I left and never went back to this nut.

(for some reason, finding a good neurologist who wasn't a total nutcase was difficult)

The orthopedist a very competent doctor, but Mean. Rude. Good at what she did if you could tolerate yelling and a total lack of respect.

The Rheumatologist was a really good doctor, very kind, very thorough. But once all the tests ruled out the classic Rheumatalogical issues, leaving just unexplained chronic pain, she told me to find another doctor. Chronic pain "complicate matters too much." :(

5 doctors, some good, some bad. :shrug:

[ismnotwasm]

10. About neurologists

That is a very interesting comment. My husband went through several before he found the one he has now (a woman)He had very similar experiences. He was having a lot of pain from something and had gotten a prescription for vicodin, the neurologist kept acting like he was drug seeking. I was pissed.

ANY doctor who dismisses chronic pain immediately gets on my shit list, both personally and professionally.

I actually probably shouldn't generalize about gender, because what I get to see are the next generation of doctors, many of whom are women. There is a different dynamic in our medical teams when they are predominantly female, or have more of a mix, a little more humor, a little more listening, and if the woman is confident, (a woman doctor can show less confidence for some reason more often than a male) a more thorough examination both to patients and nurses. I shouldn't forget the medical model they are taught is 'masculine' and women are human.

On the other hand the good male doctors I know do just that; they listen, they hear, they assess well and have common sense in their diagnoses and treatment.

Understand this is all anecdotal, I think I've been blessed to see so many dynamic women who specialize in their field, that it affects my perception!

[bliss_eternal]

11. geezus that's horrible...

...thomcat, i'm so sorry to hear you experienced someone being dismissive about your pain. (also sorry, i'm so late seeing this).

as one that has suffered for years w/migraines, i totally understand. i found a wonderful neurologist when i was on meds for migraines. but prior to seeing him, my pain was minimized and dismissed by many---totally sucks.

as if being in pain doesn't make you feel shitty enough. some asshat md, who you go to for help decides you're there so they can use their expertise to dictate how you (should) feel.

:hug:

[ThomCat]

13. Thank you.

:hug:

I'm glad you found a great doctor. I'm still looking for a good Neuro. My pain management doctor is currently handling my migraines until I find one.

[spooky3]

12. very sorry to hear what you've been through--I know this isn't the point you are making, but

it just reminded of part of a recent experience of a friend of mine.

He has a bad knee--arthritis and other problems. He lost a lot of weight and did therapy in addition to his usual sports. Despite this he turned it badly and went to his orthopedist who did an MRI and said that with a few weeks of rest and pain killers he should see improvement. He didn't. Went back to that guy and was told surgery could be helpful, but only after more rest, then that doctor went on vacation. My friend's pain worsened so badly that he could not get off the couch (fortunately his wife had retired and could help him a little). He went to a second orthopedist who said there was "nothing wrong with his knee", implied that he was exaggerating the pain, and that he needed to go to a pain management specialist. Being the "good patient" he did. The PM specialist said he could tell by feeling the joint that there was something seriously wrong with it and he would not treat it because he feared it wouldn't help and could injure him further. He considered going to yet another orthopedist when Doctor #1 returned home. He went back to Doctor #1 and he scheduled him for immediate full knee replacement, which was done. He's now undergoing weeks (months?) of rehab. Guess it was all in his head, huh?

[defendandprotect]

17. You're absolutely right -- !!

And I left the decision with my husband re circumcision for my son --

telling him to look into it and rethink it -- how naive was I????

Yikes!!

I should have followed my own instincts --

but even now, my son will say he is glad he was circumcized!!



:eyes:


Otoh, my sister has a unique way about her -- no children -- she'll simply quietly

tell you that all males are children! And, she's right!!

Unfortunately, we're all trying to get the world to work after they've turned it

upside down -- and using the only tools available in their little club houses!!

[defendandprotect]

18. What thread -- ???

[femrap]

14. Ayn Rand's experience at

12 years old in Russia had a huge effect on her. Her father was pharmacist and owned a drug store. The STATE (of men) took it from the family.

This molded her beliefs and outlook on governments and economies.

[ismnotwasm]

16. I had a patient from Russia

Who told me something I thought was very profound. They don't have anything like the ADA over there. In other words, if you are disabled and live on the fifth floor, nobody is going to put in an elevator for you much less a sidewalk cut for a wheelchair. She said that unless you had family or friends willing to carry you downstairs, you lived up there.


I can only imagine what Rand saw and experienced.

[ThomCat]

4. Today has been very frustrating.

:(

I'm sorry.

[seabeyond]

5. yet, some good threads have come out of it and some good men have participated

which is always a plus on du and working to healing.

hey thom.... have i told you how much i love your posts and the greater insight you have on gender and women rights than i have myself.

you are one awesome dude. and always a plus to see you in these threads.

[ThomCat]

6. Thank you.

:)

Threads like that really bring home how small the feminist community here has become though. There was a time when a dozen people would just happen to be online here to comment on a thread. We would have vastly outnumbered the couple of guys (and one or two women) posting the pro-patriarchy stuff. Now we are outnumbered. "There was a time" was years ago and so many good people are gone now.

:(

[seabeyond]

8. ya. it has shifted. you are right. still

it is soooooo much better than so many boards. it also allowed me to see something i hadnt been seeing. between this and another article on cnn about evolutionary behavior and guys just gotta (i was on that before coming to these threads. a whole day of wasted time), it allowed me to see just how much in the last decade we have glorified male sexuality to such an extent that it has literally become all he is.

i had not been looking at it from this point.

in the past i had been seeing virgin/whore. now i am seeing the all powerful, and beyond male sexuality and woman sexless to be used. a whole different perspective of dominance adn belittling.

[femrap]

15. You're right....

I'm sorry for not checking in more often. The 'little girl' bumper sticker reminded me of the Feminist Forum. Wasn't Omega Minion banned? I don't see why she can't come back. The admin let Will Pitt come back.

It's very difficult to fight 24/7 MSM telling women what to be, what to wear, what to do, etc. It's a massive Backlash and it is organized! These Business Roundtable dudes get together and it's decided what will be pushed and what will not be pushed.

Murdoch....:puke: