DUCKS v. SOONERS

[dr.strangelove]

This is going to be a GREAT game. The Holiday Bowl last year was a GREAT game. The Ducks have a fast offense with the best "unknown" back in the country in Jonathon Stewart (though after this game he will be very well known, if he has another 160+ yard game). Oklahoma has the best known back in the country who should win the Heisman (as long as this Brady Quinn hysteria dies down). Both teams have an amazing overall offense and strong defenses, though oklahoma is better against the run.

I'm a huge Duck fan and Autzen is constantly ranked by visiting teams as one of the worst places to travel to. The place is loud, the field is fast and the fans are relentless. Its going to be close, but I pick the Ducks in a shootout. I would take the over, but I don't know if the Ducks can cover.

[Tess49]

1. Probably would have been a better game if the refs hadn't been

blind. Pathetic officiating. Puts a cloud over Oregon's win.

[filer]

2. Couldn't have put it better!

Screw the refs!!

[Tess49]

3. Yeah, screw em!

[dr.strangelove]

4. It tough to have a great game end on a bad call

There were a few bad calls that went against the Ducks during the game too. It was a great game though. As a Duck fan, I am pretty happy. They played a great game against one of the nations best teams. I'll take the W, but I can understand why a Sooner fan would be frustrated. Its happened to all fans though. There are few things worse than a bad call at the end of a game.

[Tess49]

5. As you may have heard, the refs have been suspended for

one game. Not much, but something.

[dr.strangelove]

8. Thats actually HUGE

I've been watching PAC-10 football for a long time. The PAC-10 is notorious for not coming down on its refs. In fact, if this were the Big East, I think the whole crew would have gotten a half season suspension or worse. It shows how big the error was.

I feel badly about this. The whole game was poorly officiated. There were a few bad calls against the Ducks, including a holding and a pass interference that seemed to have been conjured up that killed drives and a holding penalty on a Sooner during one of the turnovers that was ignored. If the whole game was called better, it might have been a very different result. Bad calls are part of the game, and it sucks that they happen. the problem with the onsides kick was that it was reviewable and the review droped the ball.

I know it sucks. I was at Giants Stadium for the Giants Colts game last Sunday when an offensive pass interference call against Tim carter killed the final drive when teh replay showed he barely even made contact with the defender, and certainly did not alter the defender's direction or hinder his ability to make a play, whihc is supposed to be the standard for the call. That play changed the outcome of the game.

As a Ducks fan, I am not bragging about the win. I will brag about how well our offense played against one of the better college defenses and how we contained the best running back in the last ten years for three quarters. The game showed that the Ducks can go toe to toe with the best the nation can offer (I think the Sooners will finish up a top ten team, they are very good). I take a lot of good things from teh game, but my satisfaction with the result is tainted by the bad calls. I know nothing can change the result of the game, but overall, it was a great game with two strong teams givign one hell of a show. Bad calls or not, hats off to two very good teams who both may wind up in a BCS bowl game.

[filer]

6. Y'all can make it up to us Sooners... a little.

On Nov. 11, beat the crap out of Southern Cal! Have a good rest of the season!

[dr.strangelove]

7. That would be nice

That would all but lock up a trip to the Rose Bowl for us.

[filer]

9. Best of luck in that endeavor!

I'll be pulling for your Ducks the rest of the way.

[dr.strangelove]

10. Wow - Death Threats, I mean its a game for goodness sake

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2593870

PORTLAND, Ore. -- The instant replay official whose failure to overturn a bad call led to a narrow Oregon victory over Oklahoma said Monday he feels like he is under siege after threatening phone calls, including a death threat.

Gordon Riese said he would make a decision soon about whether to finish the season, or even whether to return next year.
...
He said the equipment is not as sophisticated as NFL replay equipment and does not allow the official to freeze the frame. But Riese lays the blame on himself after replays showed that an onside kick was touched by an Oregon player before it had traveled the required 10 yards. The Ducks went on to score the go-ahead touchdown.

"I can't sleep, I can't eat, my blood pressure is skyrocketing," Riese said, looking haggard and worn as he sat on the front porch of his house.

His wife is a registered nurse, and has been checking his blood pressure every four hours, he said.

Riese said he has stopped answering the phone, and police are investigating the threatening calls while keeping an eye on his neighborhood.

"They not only threatened me, they threatened my wife and kids," Riese said. ...
_____________________
Thats a bit over the top. I mean teams I support ahve had bad calls against the, but I would never threaten someone's life over a game. In the grand scheme of things, its great entertainment, but not something to threaten someone's life and his kid's over.

[Coyote_Bandit]

11. I'm not the least bit surprised

Over twenty years ago I spent one summer working as the home plate umpire in a small town calling softball games for the girls leagues under age 16. More than once the police came because of physical altercations and threats. Things have gotten worse since then. Poor sportsmanship has become acceptable.

At this level of college fooball competition there is lots of money and prestige involved for schools and players. To them it is not a game. Consider that even after the suspensions were announced, OU president David Boren has requested that the outcome of this very game not be considered in determining rankings. No need to do that after the mistake has been acknowledged - unless the motive is something other than sportsmanship. Never mind that OU has one of the premiere football programs in the country. Never mind that OU lost of couple of very good players this year including their quarterback because of violations of NCAA rules involving payments to players. Me thinks I smell a hint of greed and exploitation in the air. Sportsmanship is no longer in vogue.

[filer]

12. That's more than "a bit over the top".

It is outrageous and despicable behavior! If these phone calls are coming from Sooner fans I am ashamed for them and hope those individuals are apprehended and prosecuted. Unfortunately there will always be a few bad apples in every barrel, but I can assure you that the vast majority of Sooner fans would never stoop to such a thing. Sure we were upset. Sure we were disappointed, but it was just a game, for pete's sake, a college football game!

I agree with you that the nation was treated to a great contest between two very good and evenly matched teams. Bad calls happen in football. These things tend to even out over time, so let's move on and put the affair behind us.

Once again, best of luck to you and your Ducks the rest of the season, and please pound Southern Cal for us. I'll be pulling for you.

[dr.strangelove]

13. Very Well Said

I don't mean to imply that these idiots represent Sooners fans, if anything, the Sooners fans I know have already moved on and are planning to win the conference still. I hope they do. If not, maybe we can meet again in a bowl game or something. They last two games have been great contests that were fun to watch.

[fishwax]

14. It sure was a shame that such a great game wound up tainted

It's hard to think of anything that remotely compares to it going back to the Colorado-Missouri "5th down" game back in 1990. For one thing, the Ducks never recovered the football on the onside kick in the first place, and how the officials awarded UO possession is a mystery that has yet to be explained. It's obvious from the replays that OU recovered the onside kick.

But that's not really a reviewable play. The illegal touch, on the other hand, was about as obvious as obvious gets. And yes, while one could say the ducks had some bad calls go against them earlier in the game, the sooners had some bad calls go against them earlier in the game too. Those things happen, and they were all judgement calls. Perhaps some of the judgments were questionable, but they aren't at all in the category of the illegal touch, which was both plain as day and subject to review. And while noone knows what might have come from some questionable judgments earlier in the game, it's clear that OU could have taken a knee to end the game had they been awarded possession (as they should have) or had the illegal touch been called.

But that said, it was a great game, and had the game not ended like it did, would have been one of the great games of the year, in my opinion.

Best of luck to the Ducks the rest of the way. Perhaps fortune will smile on us and there'll be a rematch in a bowl game :)

[dr.strangelove]

15. Listen, bad calls are bad calls

Saying a bad call at the end of the game is different that a bad call at the middle of the game is just silly. You assume the Sooners would have taken the knee without bobbling the snap or gettign false starts to stop the clock or lots of other things. Is it likely, sure. But the Ducks were able to score that last touchdown pretty easily. If they got the PI call on a 3rd and long in the second quarter that I saw the same logic suggests they would have scored another touchdown just as easily and the game would have been very different. They did not get that call, but they still managed to put up enough points to win. The sooners got a bad call and they did not stop the Ducks offense. Saying this bad call is worse than others is bullshit. Bad calls are terrible, but they are part of the game. I wish they did not happen, but if they did not happen, the game may never have needed to be decided on a missed fieldgoal. Which by the way was the real end of the game. The sooners failed to stop the Ducks offense and then missed a very makeable field goal.

Sooners fans also seem to forget that they won the last meeting in the Holiday Bowl by 3 and there were two PIs missed that were clear on replays that should have extended Duck drives into field goal range in the third and fourth quarters. If the Ducks made either of those drives result in scores, that game would have been a Duck win. The president of the U of O did not write letters or ask to have the game removed from teh schedule because bad calls happen and the teams need to overcome them.

The Giants lost their opener to the Colts on a bad call in the fourth quarter on the last drive. The next play Manning through an INT. If he did not mess up, regardless of the bad call, the Giants may have won. The bad call was not the cause of the loss, it was the failure to stop the Colts offense adn the failure to score. I feel as badly as any college football fan about bad calls, but it seems that some people are making this call out to be the worst thing in the history of the game. It happened, along with a ton of other bad calls on Saturday. Bad calls will probably keep happening.

Also, the PAC-10 replay official does not have the same replays that you see on TV. They got only two views of that play, one from above the stadium that shows all the players and one close up that was a diagonal view. It would have been impossible to tell whether or not the ball was over the 10 yard point due to the diagonal angle. From teh ABC replay, it seems to have missed by about 1/2 yard. If you were watching that from the Ducks endzone, it would be tough to tell teh difference between 9.5 and 10 yards. ABC/ESPN gave better views. If ESPN/ABC wants to start giving the replay officials control over all their cameras and let the replay official use their equipment, maybe things would get better. They certainly have not offered that the replay officials. College football is not the NFL replay system, the technology is far inferior to what ABC/ESPN shows on TV. The PAC-10 offical had no ability to stop and rewind frame by frame. They look at it several times at game speed and once or twince at slow speed, but they can;t do a frame by frame stop. They have one minute to make a call. I think replay should get more money poured into it to make it as good as the NFL, but the NFL replay still messes up each week.

Nothing will be perfect and nothign will ever take the bad taste out of your mouth when you are on the other side of a bad call. I know, I was at Giants Stadium when that bad call killed our opener and probably limited our chance to win the NFC east this season given that we have the worst schedule in the division.

[fishwax]

16. All bad calls are not created equal

I know nothing will ever be perfect, and I don't expect it to be. Bad deals are part of life, and bad calls are part of football. But I don't think all bad calls are created equal. A few years back, OU's basketball team was the beneficiary of some poor clock work at the end of a game. With about 4 seconds left, Hollis Price got an inbounds pass, and wound up hitting the game-tying shot just as time expired. Replays, though, showed that the clock didn't start for about five tenths of a second after Price touched the ball. OU wound up winning in overtime. Now, I'm certainly not giving that win back, and I thought that the Texas Tech athletic department was over the line when we went to Lubbock later in the season and they repeated flashed the word "cheaters" on their big screen. But even so, I understood the frustration of their fans, felt it justified, and recognized that--though there might be slight issues with clocks and calls throughout the game, this one had a bigger impact than most.

I don't think that all blown calls are created equal, as evidenced by the fact that some calls are reviewable and some are not. Pass interference is a judgment call. Not calling PI may be a case of bad judgment, particularly since not all contact is in violation of the rule. The best you can really hope for with things like PI or holding are that they are called consistently throughout the game. The illegal touch, on the other hand, is a very concrete thing. It is not open to interpretation.

I don't think Oregon's win is tainted or that fans shouldn't be happy with the win or anything along those lines. Oregon played hard and put out a great effort and made a great comeback. I do think the game itself is tainted though. Now reports are coming out that the reviewer didn't have all the angles and couldn't look at it frame by frame, despite the Pac 10's own statement about instant replay which claims to have very up to date technology. Remember, though, that the ruling of the replay official wasn't that there was inconclusive evidence, but rather that there was "conclusive evidence that it was touched first by the receiving team." With such outdated technology and only one camera angle, I wonder how the replay official concluded that.

Yes, one can say that it's possible that OU, having to snap the ball twice they might have fumbled once. There's a miniscule chance that might have happened. But OU recovered the onside kick (as the replays show) and had the officials not inexplicably awarded the ball to UO and then inexplicably chosen not to overturn the call, we know with about 99.999% certainty how the game would have turned out. How the game would have turned out if Malcolm Kelly had been called for offensive PI on his touchdown catch, of course, is anybody's guess.

But yeah, mistakes happen. I agree. And congrats to the Ducks for a hard-fought game, and I wish them and their fans luck the rest of the year. I hope that our teams will play each other again in the future, because the last two have been great games. (The one in Norman was a great first half, too, and was much closer than the score indicated.)

[dr.strangelove]

17. Agree to disagree?

I will never beleive that just because a bad call happens at the last play of the game it is any more important or more significant than a call at some other point during the game. Also, the ability to review does not matter much to me whether or not a call is bad. A bad call, whether a non-reviewable judgement call, or a reviewable call is still a bad call. For a bad call at the end ot be more important than a bad call at the beginning, you have to assume that the score and game would have stayed the same regardless of other bad calls, which in this game (probably all games) was not true. If the Sooners had a TD called back on PI and the Ducks put up at least 3, if not as mch as 14 when what looked like clear PI on two third and longs were called, the final kickoff probably never would have happened because the Ducks would have been killing the clock with a huge lead, not tryign to score. You play the hand you are dealt with bad calls, but to suggest a bad call in teh final minute is worse ignores the reality of the other bad calls. They are just sexier, but to a true football fan, IMHO, they are no more severe.

I hope the Sooners win the conference and we meet again. You are right, they always seem to play great games. I have always had a great deal of respect for the Sooners and it seems the Ducks are finally beginning to get respect on a national level. this is the fifth season in a row they have been ranked early and the game against the Sooners proved they can hang in with the nations best teams. I hope we beat USC and get to play Michigan again in the Rose Bowl!

[fishwax]

18. I can agree to disagree

though it requires some effort not to bristle at the "true football fan" comment, since I consider myself as true as they come ;)

Hey, if you guys beat USC, you might even set your sights higher than the Rose Bowl. If I remember right, Oregon was ranked around #20 when the season began, same as OU was the last time we won the championship :) Anything's possible. (Not that the Rose Bowl would be too shabby, of course ...) Looks like all your tough conference games are on the road, though ...

[dr.strangelove]

19. bad dr.s

I am sorry about the true football fan comment. I did not mean to imply that you are not. In fact, I was hoping you would agree with me that bad calls at any time of the game have an equal chance to impact the final result. Of course if the bad call is at the last last it changes whether there would be another play, but if it is during the first play, it can have an even bigger impact. Anyway, I just got a lot of abuse this week for being a Duck fan. I really wish the whole game was called better and I hope we get to play again. I very much enjoyed the game.

Oregon is still a "young" program in terms of respectability. It has been a long run from the 80s when we were a joke. We have a good recruiting program now, Nike has given us facilities to go up with anyone, we have a great coach and more. We are going in the right direction. We will compete most years for top rankings, but we will have the odd bad year like other teams. I would love playing for the national title. We were close in Harrington's last season. Playing at Cal, AzSt and at USC will be tough, but we can win all those games. If we win them all and beat Oregon State, we can go undefeated and be in the fun discussions. But it is way to early to talk abotu that. We have a buy this week then go to Az St and Cal, then play UCLA at home, three tough games. If we win every game but USC, we should be in the Rose bowl as long as USC makes the National Championship game, otherwise maybe an at large in the new 8 team BSC.

Thanks for this discussion. I am sorry about that True fan comment. I have NO DOUBT that you are a true fan and it was a poor choice of words on my part. The Sooners can win out and get a BSC bid or more. The game against Texas at home is all you need to win. the rest of the season looks good for your team. I hope you win it out.

Good luck.

[fishwax]

20. no worries :)

:hi:

As one of the Duck posters on one of my favorite OU message boards said, perhaps the worst part of this whole situation is the damage that it did to the great relationship between Duck and Sooner fans. I think everyone on both sides looked forward to this game since, oh, about ten seconds after the Holiday Bowl was over, and it seemed like there was such great respect between the fans. UO fans that I encountered online were generally really respectful of our program, wanted us to do well, and saw the Autzen game as a measuring stick for their program. OU fans, too, respected what you guys have built in the last few years and saw the Autzen game as a way to gauge the team this year. It reminded me of the home and home series we had with Alabama a few years ago, which resulted in a general affection and alliance between our fans.

It seemed like that is what would happen with OU-UO, but not in the aftermath of Saturday's game. Most of the duck fans that came to the OU boards were quite gracious, but some were pretty abrasive, rubbing our noses a bit or even saying we were over the hill as a program ... and while most of the OU fans were sensible enough to not blame the UO fans for the calls, there were some sooner fans on the boards who were total dicks and simply insulted any duck fan that showed up. Quite a bummer. Hopefully time will heal the wounds, and OUUO fans can once again gather in peace :) (Although I'm sure we'll never play again unless we meet in a bowl game or the Pac-10 drops the rule requiring Pac-10 officials for non-conference home games.) Anyway, I know I'm not the only Sooner fan who still likes the Ducks and hopes you guys do well the rest of the way.

Anyway, I appreciate you taking back the fan comment, and didn't figure you really meant it :) And I remember the Harrington year, too ... you guys got royally screwed that year, and should have been playing for the title. These things take time, though, and it sounds like you guys have come a long way.

:hi:

[dr.strangelove]

21. VERY WELL SAID

I think we have two Duck and Sooner fans who will keep a great relationship of mutual respect. I am very respectful of the Sooner football program. One of the best things the Ducks have done was enter into Home and Away series with respected programs like OU, Tenn and Michigan (in recent and coming years). Playing teams wth reputations and program strength such as yours and Tenn/MI were meant to both provide a measuring stick for our program, and let the world know that we were a program to respect. Our first game against the Sooners helped us recruit with a nationally televised game. I think these games give OK a chance to reach markets in the NW that otherwise ignore you. I am sure you will wind up with an Oregonian or Washington resident starting for your program in the next six-eight years, who was introduced to OK in this game and the Holiday Bowl. These Home and Away series usually benefit everyone if the programs are of equal or close to equal strength. To suggest the Sooner program is anything but one of the best run programs in the nation is insane and I am embarrassed that someone calling themselves a Duck fan would say something like that. That we played two games against you decided by 3 points or less in the last 12 months tells me that we can hang in there with the very best, which the Sooners are. If the Sooners were an "over the hill" program the series would not provide any benefit to the Ducks. We can always play Portland State if we want an easy win (whcih we will later this season). Its the fact that your program is so good, and that I respect it so much, that this series and the Bowl game were truly valuable to us. I'm also glad that you recognize what we have built in the last few years. Now I hope the Michigan win and these games help others see that. We took a program (through the tremendous support of Phil Knight and Nike) that was a joke and turned it into something that is IMHO a very strong football program. We have produced a few First Round picks in recent years and have a few more on the team now. Hopefully games like these will help our recruiting. Even with the bad calls, anyone who watched was treated to a great game. I think in the long run there will be benefits to both programs from this. Anyway, I enjoyed our talk, I wish you the best and hope you win the conference. I hope we will talk again here. I for one have a great respect for the Sooner program and its fans.

[1gobluedem]

22. I can. USC's phantom touchdown in the 1979 Rose Bowl

That ended up winning the game for them against Michigan. Photos in the paper the next day showed the ball on the ground in front of the goal line and Charles White crossing it empty handed.

Nothing happened to those refs, though. Times have changed.

[fishwax]

23. well, that goes back farther than the 5th down game

:)

I'm not actually familiar with that game, but if it was as obvious as you say it's certainly worth raising a ruckus over. I don't see why obvious incompetence should be allowed to stand without vociferous complaint. :)