Thoughts on laundry....

[politicat]

A friend and I got in a discussion a few weeks ago about laundry. She goes through a lot of clothes - tee-shirts wear out rapidly, pants develop holes, towels disintegrate. She was sort of amazed that I have clothes that I've been wearing since high school, and my sheets, towels and regular clothes look almost new even though the sheets are 4 years old, the towels a bit older, and my regular clothes get replaced or added to only when necessary. (I also mend, but that's another subject.)

So she's trying to figure out if her wardrobe problems are a result of chemistry or her own body being different than mine, or water differences between our two communities until we got around to laundry practices.

She was horrified by my laundry practices. Now, I'm not a germ-phobe. I figure that humans have spent 200,000 years evolving to handle germs and we have immune systems for a reason. I'm not dirty or slovenly, but I am not going to live in a sterile chamber fit for cleanroom work, either. So we wash everything in cold water. I use bleach only when necessary and only on whites, and I try oxygen bleach before chlorine. We use the dryer as little as possible and at low temperatures. Clothing hangs out in the bright sunlight (which serves to sterilize it as well) and I iron as little as possible because if I hang clothes on the line, I don't need to iron. From my anecdotal experience, clothes last longer when they're treated carefully. We also use highly concentrated, unscented laundry detergent; she uses the heavily perfumed stuff.

Her practices are pretty much polar opposites: everything possible gets washed in hot water, her dryer is always used (putting clothes outside horrifies her), she uses chlorine bleach with both regularity and in quantity, and she irons everything save socks and towels.

So my thoughts are that the heat and agitation are not good for clothing, nor are the chemicals. My clothes are just as clean, usually neater and they last longer.

Poke some holes in my logic, folks. Am I opening us up to massive attacks of death and disfigurement because I won't bleach the hell out of everything?

[NMDemDist2]

1. you nailed it PCat. Bleach does nasty stuff to fabric

heat too. Elastic especially

We're redoing some fence on the new land and I'm trying to figure out where to set the new clothes line

it's fine I don't have it yet, since it's rained literally every day for a month around here and there will be the spring winds that i'll be using the dryer exclusively

FWIW, when I got regular visits from the Health Inspector he told me to toss the "anti-bacterial" soap and use regular stuff. The AB stuff kills ALL bacteria and the nasty ones grow back much faster then the beneficial bacteria (of which there are many it seems)

[Warpy]

8. Some oxygen bleaches can be hard on fabric, too

I bought a tub of Oxy Clean at Costco, figured it would help get the nasties out of my hospital scrubs. Over the next few months, I noticed the scrubs were starting to wear a lot more quickly than they had been. Bottom line: I only use oxy bleach when clothing is heavily stained, as when I've been cutting weeds or something.

Bottom line: all bleaches can damage fibres, especially cottons and elastics. Clorox turns synthetic whites yellowish. And yes, you can be too clean.

I do have a hand sanitizer, something I hit only when I've come in from the supermarket and sticky shopping cart handles and I have to do something in a hurry (like answer the phone) before I can take the time to wash my hands. Even then, it's the friction that does the trick, not the alcohol.

Soap and water are all it takes. Most people are immune to their own household bacteria, the exceptions being people with advanced AIDS and transplant recipients. Trying to keep an antiseptic house is completely futile and counterproductive, though. The bugs always win and every bit of clothing you own will disintegrate.

[WolverineDG]

2. Do you have a front-loading washer?

I too use cold water for everything except whites. I don't use bleach at all. I have noticed that with my front-loading washing machine that my clothes not only come out cleaner, but they don't get beat up as much in the washing as they would with a top-loader that has an agitator. :)

I still have clothes line poles in my back yard, but the wires were cut ages ago. I'm thinking of having the poles moved & re-strung, though.

dg

[politicat]

6. Yes! I bought one six years ago when we moved in together.

We both had fourteenth hand, avocado green and harvest gold washers that were older than I was, so when DH moved into my house and our combined bills went down, we replaced the laundry machines. We still don't use hot water on whites; I just don't see the point. (Besides, very few of our whites are actually white, and at least with my underthings, I'd rather they didn't get subjected to the heat.) I love my frontloader; the only thing I wish I'd done that I didn't do was get the bases for it, and they're no longer available for my model.

Put the line back up - it's an amazingly relaxing task, and I'm noticing that my waistline is getting a bit harder and slimmer -- after all, it requires a few additional steps and a lot of touching of my toes. (My back is also feeling much better, though there may be a lot of reasons for that, but I think the exercise and stretching can't hurt.)

[Dora]

9. You can make your own pedestal base for your washer/dryer.

We did, with my father's help. It was built from 2x12s and plywood, and it has two drawers in the base. There's no jiggle in this sucker, and I love not having to stoop completely over to move laundry from the washer to the dryer. I'd love to post a picture, but my iPhoto isn't working.

[politicat]

10. Oo... I'd like details on that, please!

I think I could build it, once I get the den and bedroom painted, and then I'd have storage under the damn things so I didn't have a gazillion bits of stuff cluttering the top.

What thickness of plywood did you use?

[Dora]

16. I believe it is one-inch plywood, furniture grade.

The sides and front were made by using 2x12s, with 2x4s used internally as cleats and add'l support for the top. The top was made from plywood. I think that cutting out the drawer holes in the front 2x12 presented a challenge to my dad and husband, but they prevailed. We painted the sides/front white to match the cabinetry and trim, and the top surface we painted with a black, heavy duty porch enamel, so as not to show the inevitable scuffs from getting the washer/dryer seated on the pedestal.

If I can get my iPhoto to work at home one of these nights, I'll post some pictures of its installation in our laundry room.

[calico1]

3. Everything you say is so true.

I also know people who are just in the habit of pouring bleach on everything whether it needs it or not. I have a friend who will wear a pair of jeans once or a shirt for a couple of hours and throw them on the laundry pile. That too, makes clothing wear out faster. You don't need to wash your jeans after wearing them for just a few hours but she does.

Our washing machine is on its last legs. It is wearing out and when it does I want a front loader. I think the top loaders beat the hell out of clothes. I also use cholrine bleach only on whites and only occasionally. If you hang whites out on a bright, sunny day the sun whitens them naturally. And clothing smells so good when it dries outdoors! We have a clothesline and I hadn't really used it that much but this year I have been using it a lot. I plan to right through winter on the days I can and use the dryer much less. I also have two of those wood racks which I will also use for when I can't hang outside.

[eleny]

4. I really appreciate my front loader

It saves on water and you're right, the clothes don't seem to get beaten up over time. It's quieter, too.

[wakemeupwhenitsover]

5. And it never goes 'off center'

no matter what odd things I put in there. DH's heavy coats, overalls, pillows, bath mats, it doesn't matter. The machine never makes that gawd-awful noise that the top loader did to let me know that I have to rearrange everything. Then, just as I would walk out of the laundry room---brrrrrrrr. The danged thing went out of wack again.

I agree that it seems much easier on the clothes. I do laundry pretty much like everyone has posted (cold water for most, low dryer, etc). Our clothes have always lasted a long time & seem to last even longer now.

Anyone can have my front loader when they pry it out of my cold, dead hands.

[NMMNG]

7. Oh my

I have clothing and towels that have been around for at least 10 years. Until recently I had sheets that had been around for much longer. The only reason some of the clothing hasn't been around longer is that I lost a chunk of weight and went down several sizes so I had to toss a lot of stuff.

I wash my whites and "lights" in warm and the rest in cold in a front-loader. I use the dryer year round but on low heat. Anything with lycra (like bras or some stretchy knits) and all sweaters get air dried. I only iron if I absolutely have to and use chlorine bleach only in the most extreme cases.

[hvn_nbr_2]

11. I still regularly use two towels that I acquired in 1972...

and they're still in good shape. I recently threw away some T-shirts that were 15 years old because they finally wore out.

My laundry practices are somewhere between yours and your friend's but closer to yours. I use the dryer on high for whites and cottons, medium for most others, and low for delicates and elastics. I use bleach but minimize it. I have an iron, somewhere. It's been so long since I used it, I don't even know where it is.

I would guess that bleach is a primary culprit. To see what bleach does, put a sponge in a bowl of water with 1/4 cup of bleach. Leave it there for 24 hours. You'll have a completely useless sponge that partially disintegrates every time you squeeze water out of it.

[Barking Spider]

12. baby diapers?

The wife and I are expecting our first baby in another month, and we want to go with cloth diapers. What do you suggest as a washing method? Bleach/no bleach? Hot/warm/cold water?

Our goals:
1. Provide a clean diaper.
2. Provide a soft and comfortable diaper for the baby's bottom.
3. To get the longest life out of the diapers.

Our current plan is to keep a covered diaper pail with a clorox/water mix in it. We'll rinse the dirty diaper in the toilet, and then drop in the bucket. When we want to wash a load (every other day or so), we'll pour contents of bucket into washer, and spin out. Then do a complete wash with detergent in warm or hot water. Hang to dry.

I am mostly worried about the harshness of the bleach, but we want/need a good disinfectant. Or do we?

Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance!

[Lars39]

13. I used cloth diapers on my oldest, and 80% of the time with my

youngest.I only used bleach once...he got the worst case of diaper rash!
After that I just kept the soiled diapers in a bucket of soapy water.
I did wash them in hot water,though.
I didn't have a clothesline, so they were dried in the diaper.
I tried to wash them every day so they wouldn't get any 'riper'. :D

[troubleinwinter]

14. I must agree with Lars

Nix on the bleach. My daughter got bad rashes from it. Not only in diapers, but from some of her other clothing when I used bleach. It seemed impossible to rinse it all out, even sending it through an additional cycle.

[politicat]

15. My mom used a mix of 1 gallon of water to a cup of vinegar and a squeeze

of liquid ivory soap. She washed diapers daily, in warm water, and hung them outside to dry. She used either ivory flakes or dreft to wash; my sister used method baby on my niece (target carries method products) and both had good luck. When my sisters got diaper rash, (rare, and I never had it, but I was changed really quickly, while my sisters, having other kids to contend with for attention, sometimes had to wait a bit longer) my mother also poured in a scoop of oxygen based (colorsafe clorox at the time, oxyclean now) bleach, hydrogen peroxide (used to be easily available for bleaching hair) or some isopropyl alcohol, depending on what she had on hand. All seemed to work fine.

My other sister used a diaper service to wash the diapers. They don't use bleach, because it's a good route to diaper rash.

Soap, water and agitation are enough to get cloth clean. Bleach is one of the more toxic of disinfectants and diapers soaking in bleach will disintegrate quickly. Further, urine that has been around for more than 4-5 hours becomes ammoniac, and bleach and ammonia do NOT mix. Thus, a diaper taken off baby while out and put in the bucket a few hours later will produce toxic fumes.

Don't use fabric softener... fabric softener inhibits a fabric's ability to absorb liquid, meaning that the baby will be sitting in a puddle, and that causes rashes.

Get proper baby diapers - the right ones are soft to the touch without fabric softener and after spending time on the line. I still have a couple of my sister's infancy diapers, for use on my glasses and computer screens. They're 25 years old and have rarely been inside a dryer. they're soft when they come down from the line or off the drying rack.

The big issue is to do the washing daily, change the baby frequently, and use very few chemicals - unscented soap rather than detergent and no softener. The nice thing about urine is that it decays into ammonia, and ammonia works quite nicely as a disinfectant. But ammonia is also dangerous in combination with bleach and since urine can't be avoided, bleach should be.

Word to the wise: cloth diapers help with toilet training -- no one likes to sit around in a wet diaper.